Why don't we have a few simple maps to play for now?
Magneto
Join Date: 2010-12-22 Member: 75856Members
Join Date: 2010-12-22 Member: 75856Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A suggestion to mappers and server hosts.</div>I know the game isn't that playable yet but isn't that mainly down to performance?
If we could get a few simple old style ns maps out we might be able to start having better games sooner than expected, the official maps look great but id be happy to play on basic ones for now while we wait for the performance and game play improvements to catch up, what do think?
If we could get a few simple old style ns maps out we might be able to start having better games sooner than expected, the official maps look great but id be happy to play on basic ones for now while we wait for the performance and game play improvements to catch up, what do think?
Comments
You are aware, that you opened a pointless thread ?
Just try to use your brain ...
You'll have to explain why it's pointless in your opinion, im just trying to suggest a simple idea that could get us having fun games sooner, if we can play on a simple map design the improved performance should make things more playable, thats all, im new to the forums so if its been suggested before im left wondering why its not been tried?
Ok, sorry if you are new.
What I wanted to point at is;
<ul><li><!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->this is a beta disguised alpha, developed by ~5 persons who work overtime to get the game flying before money runs out.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></li></ul>How realistically do you think it is, that this aforementioned persons would take the effort to convert an NS1 map for playtesting... Â not to mention that the whole of NS2 is a completely different game and that an NS1 map would be ... well, useless ... to put it the friendly way.
Thats what I was hinting at, with the "use your brain part"..... Â no offence, but your post wasn't very thought through
What I wanted to point at is;
<ul><li><!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->this is a beta disguised alpha, developed by ~5 persons who work overtime to get the game flying before money runs out.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></li></ul>How realistically do you think it is, that this aforementioned persons would take the effort to convert an NS1 map for playtesting... Â not to mention that the whole of NS2 is a completely different game and that an NS1 map would be ... well, useless ... to put it the friendly way.
Thats what I was hinting at, with the "use your brain part"..... Â no offence, but your post wasn't very thought through<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah then you misunderstood, what i asked was if the community could make a few low detail maps similar to ns1 and hopefully a few server admins will use them,i wasn't asking the devs to waste time doing this.
Also i'll just add that at no point was i criticising the devs or the game for that matter, i know full well what a beta is and expect issues with performance etc, i just though it might be a good idea if we could get a few simpler maps on servers to see if game play is improved or not, i just want people to have fun sooner rather than later and if this helps it would be good for the community.
Sure, it would be fairly easy to crank out a copy of an old ns map but I doubt anyone would play for long.
If you feel like giving mapping a go, I suggest you start by mapping one room, throw it away, map it again, throw it away and then map something else, rinse and repeat. =)
Eventually you will make something ok and then you have just the rest of the map to do =)
EDIT: BTW, is you in-game name also Magneto? If so, we played today. I am ServiceStud in-game. I wtfpwnd your team as a skulk until you took my face off with a shotgun. I then hid in the hive, sulking =)
Im quite interested in mapping, i followed the basic tutorial vids and it looks like spark has the potential to be better to map with than some other game engines, though i've only played around with them in the past, never done anything big, i hope to with this though as i have some ideas.
<!--quoteo(post=1818615:date=Dec 22 2010, 08:59 PM:name=Silverwing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silverwing @ Dec 22 2010, 08:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818615"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: BTW, is you in-game name also Magneto? If so, we played today. I am ServiceStud in-game. I wtfpwnd your team as a skulk until you took my face off with a shotgun. I then hid in the hive, sulking =)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think I also played with you within the last couple days, Magneto. I go by Pistachio in game.
<!--quoteo(post=1818579:date=Dec 22 2010, 07:59 PM:name=Sturmwind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sturmwind @ Dec 22 2010, 07:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818579"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, sorry if you are new.
What I wanted to point at is;
<ul><li><!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->this is a beta disguised alpha, developed by ~5 persons who work overtime to get the game flying before money runs out.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></li></ul>How realistically do you think it is, that this aforementioned persons would take the effort to convert an NS1 map for playtesting... Â not to mention that the whole of NS2 is a completely different game and that an NS1 map would be ... well, useless ... to put it the friendly way.
Thats what I was hinting at, with the "use your brain part"..... Â no offence, but your post wasn't very thought through<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, seems your post wasn't very thought through. He didn't ask the devs. And he didn't say anything about the current state of the game. Funny stuff.
Hey nice sample map, i didn't check out the wiki before but it looks useful, thanks.
<!--quoteo(post=1818650:date=Dec 23 2010, 04:04 AM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Dec 23 2010, 04:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818650"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hosting sample (build 160) for a few days--->> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=111839&view=findpost&p=1818646" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1818646</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for putting up the server, i had a quick run around and the performance is definitely better but there is still the stutter problem, hope more get it today so we can have a proper game to see how it performs.
<a href="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/ns2_sample/ns2_sample-build160.zip" target="_blank">Here's the map for those wanting to try it out.</a>
This kid has a great idea. No, it doesn't have to be a map with developer gray and orange boxes everywhere like we see in TF2 / CS. Yes, it could be a simple map that both looks good and does not place so much load on the cpu.
I have done quite a bit of level design and I can tell you a good layout for a map and how it plays, is far more important than how "pretty" it looks. You ever play fy_iceworld in counter-strike? Basically a rectangle and you still have people playing that map to THIS DAY. So to throw out the idea that a simple map could never be any good and to tell this kid to basically piss off is just stupid.
I know that not only me, but a lot of the community would appreciate such a map. Due to the fact that the game is having so many performance issues, and any little leverage we can get would help.
Also, when they are focusing on game play and adding all these changes, it sure does make it hard to test when I can hardly play anyways.
Perhaps the idea would be interesting from a community mapper point of view. Work on your map without adding too many details and test it for gameplay. While at the same time giving something for players to test.
However the normal high detail map should still be the norm because that's what the game is aiming for a thus what we should spend the most time testing.
Hopefully I can hop on after work and check out the sample map, I'd like to alleviate my performance restrictions to see the fps stuttering more clearly.
but are you sure it will decrease the CPU STRAIN?
ns2 is right now by far limited by CPU, so giving it more GPU room will do minimal difference to fps
Yeah it is CPU heavy beacuse of its Dynamic Lights
Are you sure about that?, when a room its enterily dark with 0 luminance and 0 shadows fps still on 18-24. Anyways lighting its something that affect textures colors, and if I'm not wrong, textures are GPU related.
Anyways I don't think that's actually the problem. I think the engine it's rendering the whole map (or too much map) all the time. Basically I think that because when you're on commander view you're viewing a BIG part of the map (with the same lighting that if you're playing as soldier). And ironically it has more fps than the normal view.
That points that on normal view you're rendering MORE than on commander view. That can be probably fixed with some vis portals around the map.
Another clue is that when you're on the isolated ready room, with all the same lighting than the normal map, with all the players processing that light on their marine models. I get 60-80 fps (i'm not rendering the whole map because that room its isolated) and in normal gameplay I get 13-25 (too much rendering)
Dam... Then I can't explain why on commander view I have more fps than in normal view.
Well, from a builders perspective it's very obvious. A lot and i mean a <b><u>lot</u></b> of props are invisible to the commander either by setting ceiling or top down view props and faces to "0" and/or including them under the Commander_Invisible group so that's why you see the increase in performance.
After setting the flags for props blocking commander view to the <b>Commander_invisible</b> Group i noticed a significant increase in performance while in commander mode.
From my experience alone i am leaning to the large complex props like "sky Buildings". I'll use ns2_sample as my example of what i experienced. Standing in a hive area with hive and 5 eggs i was getting 25-30fps then when i turned away i got 19-22fps so i went to investigate. on the complete other side of map where windows are you can see sky buildings so i looked away from them and got 25-30fps even looking at 6 or so props of crates and ladder then i spun around and looked at sky buildings again and was at 19-22fps. I also notices that the sky buildings even when setting commander invisible would still accept way-points so this raises the question if they are really invisible to the video card for rendering? if so then why can you way-point a drifter/mac onto them.
I noticed a huge performance drop when i added the sky buildings to my level but figured it was a performance issue with the latest patch.....got me thinking hard about using sky buildings at all after looking at the wire frame for them.....anyone care to count the vertexes? Shouldn't be much an issue on high end machines but the specs of "1.2 GHz Processor, 256MB RAM, a DirectX 9 level graphics card" that is <b>STILL</b> said to be minimum most likely won't even launch the game.
It is mix of ns and co map :)
<img src="http://www.yyoru.com/ns2/ns2_basic_crt_v1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
But there are some problems about eggs, waiting new patch.
It will be free and downloadable from the Mapping section. Here:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112124" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112124</a>
Comming Soon !
If we could get a few simple old style ns maps out we might be able to start having better games sooner than expected, the official maps look great but id be happy to play on basic ones for now while we wait for the performance and game play improvements to catch up, what do think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First we need some lua modder who gives us the old NS1 classic back.
it would be nice if someone did a ns classic mode.
Anyways I don't think that's actually the problem. I think the engine it's rendering the whole map (or too much map) all the time. Basically I think that because when you're on commander view you're viewing a BIG part of the map (with the same lighting that if you're playing as soldier). And ironically it has more fps than the normal view.
That points that on normal view you're rendering MORE than on commander view. That can be probably fixed with some vis portals around the map.
Another clue is that when you're on the isolated ready room, with all the same lighting than the normal map, with all the players processing that light on their marine models. I get 60-80 fps (i'm not rendering the whole map because that room its isolated) and in normal gameplay I get 13-25 (too much rendering)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i can disprove this VERY EASY
1. create a LAN game for yourself
2. type in console [r_wireframe] and [spectate]
3. explore and have fun
[r_wireframe 0] to switch off
1. create a LAN game for yourself
2. type in console [r_wireframe] and [spectate]
3. explore and have fun
[r_wireframe 0] to switch off<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Test it. You're right I was wrong xD.