<!--quoteo(post=1818611:date=Dec 23 2010, 01:44 AM:name=meb2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb2 @ Dec 23 2010, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818611"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->uhhh I don't think any of you have it as bad as I do in-game... is ns2 doing this for anyone else? I captured a bit of it
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch4OLz4XXjE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch4OLz4XXjE</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This video actually made my day! :)
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2010
We just tested ns2_sample (a dev textured minimalistic tutorial/example map) with 3 players and it also has fps stutter... It seems it is more obvious with higher latency. I never really noticed it on 50ms-70ms servers, but for a while it was on 200ms on the server and the fps stutter was much more visible...
looks like it has nothing to do with rr/joining a team/etc, it happens all the time. for some reason, though, sometimes it randomly stops happening when you look in a certain direction and it starts back up whenever you look elsewhere.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1818648:date=Dec 22 2010, 10:58 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 22 2010, 10:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818648"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's what he does, can't seem to talk to him about it either. All remarks made on his ugly posting habits thus far fall on stubbornly deaf ears...
It is kinda funny he doesn't know a listenserver although run in the same process thread as the client, can still add latency, or fps stutter issues in this case, if the listenserver or client has a memory leak or simply can't keep... Also he doesn't seem to realize that latency is not always network related...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reminds me of that person I made end the game because he was complaining about how 'horrible' the patch was because of his comp having issues hosting his listenserver.
My rig isn't all that great, but I'm pretty sure I see the same stuttering issue that's referenced in this thread. Unfortunately, with the amount of general performance issues I get, the frequency of the problem is hard to determine. I do know one thing, though - if NS2 ran as well in game as it does in your "unplayable" videos, I'd be a happy camper. I play full games every night with performance that's much worse, and I enjoy myself.
Also, I made a mash-up of all the <b>cool, constructive</b> things jamieshepherd has posted so far in this thread. I think it really highlights not only how patient and level headed he is, but also his uncompromising dedication to facilitating an open, welcoming discussion here in our community.
<!--quoteo(post=1818633:date=Dec 22 2010, 10:15 PM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 22 2010, 10:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you should just stop commenting on this thread since you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. ...
I told you, leave this thread already you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... What can you offer to this thread? You're not a developer, and you're not experiencing the problem. Stop saying ridiculous things like "it must be the server" or "you're turning too fast" - You don't have the issue, so you have no clue, please exit. Turning just makes it easier to spot when there is no animation going on, are you incapable of using your brain when you come to such conclusions? Jesus.
... For everyone who's stupid enough to believe it is lag, please read this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112059" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112059</a> thread where the issue is described in more detail. ...
I'm really sick of seeing people who don't have the issue not read the thread before commenting blindly. This issue happens both LOCALLY and ONLINE. This therefore means it is nothing to do with latency or netcode. Please, at least attempt to read the thread before you reply again. ... <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot</a> - You, it appears. <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><b>-This one is my favorite, because he found a wikipedia article on idiot!</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> ... 1) You don't have the problem, therefore you cannot comment on it since you don't even understand what we're getting 2) You are not a programmer, therefore you have no idea what a) the problem might be or b) any solutions for it 3) You are not helping, this thread was made to highlight how many people are getting the issue, and what it is, for the programmers. Not some random idiot who decides that after reading a few threads about 'occlusion culling' and 'lua' he knows what he's talking about.
Kindly exit now. I will not respond to any more of your ridiculous replies, let's get back on topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly "Kouji_San" you have no clue what we are talking about here. Why do you even post on every freaking thread in this forum? We want to discuss the topic here and jamieshepherd is the one that started and also delivered most evidence to this issue. Keep up the good work and don't get distracted by those fanatics. NS2 isn't perfect yet but they want to believe...
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2010
I just did a bit of testing and noticed (supposedly pausing) the luagc didn't do anything useful.
However, it was really interesting to see a considerable slowdown when I had Resource Monitor (Windows 7) running at the same time NS2 did a Lua GC sweep.
1) This is the game as I joined normally, Res Monitor is not running <a href="http://img10.imageshack.us/i/profilenormal.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5307/profilenormal.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
2) I've now got Res Monitor running. Notice the lag spikes. The game is slowing down a bit when it does a GC sweep. <a href="http://img211.imageshack.us/i/profileprocmon.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9259/profileprocmon.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
3) I've got the game window unfocused, and its also slow. This is sort of expected though, I know Windows drops the priority on a process if it does not have focus (most of the time). <a href="http://img135.imageshack.us/i/profilenofocus.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9133/profilenofocus.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Finally, here is the very first performance piece I grabbed when I loaded into the map. Immediately after loading the map it lagged, so I hit SPACE to stop the profile. <a href="http://img718.imageshack.us/i/firstjoin.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9962/firstjoin.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
The majority of the work was in the GC as you can see.
I don't know why there is no performance increase (even temporarily) with turning off the GC though (supposedly anyway, using the changegcsetting commands).
<!--quoteo(post=1818684:date=Dec 23 2010, 05:55 AM:name=Pistachio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pistachio @ Dec 23 2010, 05:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My rig isn't all that great, but I'm pretty sure I see the same stuttering issue that's referenced in this thread. Unfortunately, with the amount of general performance issues I get, the frequency of the problem is hard to determine. I do know one thing, though - if NS2 ran as well in game as it does in your "unplayable" videos, I'd be a happy camper. I play full games every night with performance that's much worse, and I enjoy myself.
Also, I made a mash-up of all the <b>cool, constructive</b> things jamieshepherd has posted so far in this thread. I think it really highlights not only how patient and level headed he is, but also his uncompromising dedication to facilitating an open, welcoming discussion here in our community.
Awesome stuff! So constructive!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're missing the part where I said I wanted to be constructive? I just want idiots to stop replying to this thread unless they have something useful. Thanks for stopping by though.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
very interesting.
I suppose those periodical, probably garbarge collector calls, not only slow down localy, but: a) you get bad fps every few seconds b) the server will send you less updates every few seconds, probably throwing him off for some time because he does garbage collection too c) the server gets less updates from other clients because they garbage collect to, which makes that you will get less updates, which could lead to "teleporting" players every few seconds
now a,b and c probably don't happen at the same time, so you get "lag" problems all the time.
must be a hard one to fix. good luck max! (i REALLY hope max reads this threads, especially the graphs etc)
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1818686:date=Dec 23 2010, 06:00 AM:name=daeli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (daeli @ Dec 23 2010, 06:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly "Kouji_San" you have no clue what we are talking about here. Why do you even post on every freaking thread in this forum? We want to discuss the topic here and jamieshepherd is the one that started and also delivered most evidence to this issue. Keep up the good work and don't get distracted by those fanatics. NS2 isn't perfect yet but they want to believe...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro--><i>Right... The fact that I noticed a lot of stuff which also cause fps stutter in the background, but didn't find it necessary to post <b>shiny video's</b> or <b>cool fps tables</b> about. Because they are blatantly obvious to the naked eye when you simply boot up the game and walk around is proof enough. I don't know what jammieshepherds issue is with me, but I do have this problem as well and somehow he has it in his head that I am trying to defend UWE and Spark and don't have these issues...<b>EVERYONE</b> has these issues, some to an unplayable extend much MUCH worse then this "omg FPS stutter can't play whining" and some have it but seem to not notice it, due to lower FPS...
Small sitrep of what I've found so far concerning this stutter, because some of you guys seems to be unable to gather this from posts and instead try to address the responses on trying to address jamie's awful behavior... Well actually jamie is the only one doing it and that seems to negate my findings... So seriously, STFU jamie <-- I normally don't use this kind of language, but it seems common sense just isn't getting trough to you adn this is the only thing you might understand. So I'll say it again STFU and add to this, try reading for a change. Wait what's that, you also have to read posts... Using your own words against you, well it might make it more clear to you, by using your own words...</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Instead of d!cking around by saying leave/shut up/go away/blaargh. READ <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> - <i>oh the irony of not reading stuff, right jamie?</i> <ul><li>Occlusion stutter, you can walk around using r_wireframe. Cheats have to be on for this... <ul><li>Now you can see that Spark is somehow rendering stuff that it shouldn't, props and faces behind walls you can't possibly see. Maybe there are "leaks" in Rockdown?</li><li>It also makes it fairly obvious that Spark is unloading props and faces which are around the corner, Spark thinks you can't see these. However, even though it does a fairly good job at this, some are still "partially in view" so to speak. Resulting in "holes" in the map. Now when you get closer they load into the memory again, when this happens it is very clear there is a small stutter, but it's not just those buggy ones. When larger/more detailed geometry or props load this stutter is more visible.
Most obvious location is on Rockdown when going from the hive towards the marine start trough that long hallway/ramp (east). At the end you can see the floor not being rendered.</li><li>Simply running around the map with r_wireframe you can see geometry being loaded and unloaded behind the scenes, but when they load back into the memory, things tend to hitch/stutter for a short instant.</li></ul></li><li>Latency, yes indeed... Latency! We tried running ns2_sample on SN.Wolf's server and did notice that this low detail map did increased overall FPS, but the FPS stutter was still present. For a short while the latency on the server was around 200ms, making this stutter even more evident. Mind you it was not rubber banding, it was clearly the FPS hitching.
I already said, I never really noticed this stutter on lower ping servers (50ms-70ms). But the +10fps I got on ns2_sample might have something to do with it as well as people who have a higher FPS then me seem to notice it more often...</li><li>And then there is the movement... When moving or walking there seems to be more FPS stutter then when just standing still. Yes, indeed... When standing still there is also a stutter! Just go Skulk and observer his breathing animation on the viewmodel and headbobbing of the world, both have a very small amount of it... Running in r_wireframe mode you can even see that while headbobbing idling, Spark is still doing loads of occlusion queries...</li></ul>
Do I seriously need to post video's on this when you can simply go into the game and <b>check for yourself</b>... If it is not within a one click result, it can't be true... Lazy ######s <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1818764:date=Dec 23 2010, 04:29 PM:name=daeli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (daeli @ Dec 23 2010, 04:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818764"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You constantly denied that the problem exists. And now you say its obvious?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know where the hell you get that idea from... I've just read back my posts in this thread, and ignoring the annoying flaming addressed at me and blatantly wrong conclusions made by the obvious flamer in here, it is quite clear I <b>never</b> claimed the problem didn't exist. The commentary video I posted (probably the cause of these flamer conclusions), clearly has a very neglect-able fps stutter. It is just that I hardly noticed it and the big stutter that caused the audio sync to be off by 2 seconds was simply a lag issue, the slideshow Fade (called exec.script) tells me more people had a big lagspike at that time...
But the problem is there, I'm just very lucky to have a lower FPS (heh lucky with a lower fps, imagine that irony :( ). But a lower FPS obviously masks the problem to some extend, which means it is there but hard to notice!
<!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->Note: Don't you find it weird that I never flame (with one exception in my previous post for a reason). But the stubbornness to see more issues besides a local engine problem, is simply being ignorant, for lack of a better none insulting word! Also about that latency and wikilinks posted... LATENCY can still occur on a localhost, just look at your latency when on your localhost. I am unable for example to get a 0ms latency, it usually hovers around 30 with jumps up to 50-70<b> ON A LOCALHOST</b>! Clearly there is something wrong with the listenserver hosted in the same thread as the client as well, as I have never seen this in another game (unless the server was choking!)
But blindly saying "<i>OMG there is no latency, because I run it locally</i>" is plain wrong! You are STILL running A SERVER locally! In the end Latency, Viral agents, occlusion stutter and movement stutter could ALL be somehow related to the same issue...
[edit] And don't come in here flaming again! I told jamie once before I don't flame or report people, but he has crossed this line. I am a VERY tolerant person (as shown by my restraint in this thread), but these blatantly wrong conclusions based on wikifiles and then proceeding to call me <b>and</b> others idiots and morons, when he is the one who is clearly wrong and closed minded as to possible causes, is seriously pissing me off! In all likelihood he will now come in here and flame away once more, very constructive. I would appreciate if everyone just ignore all the flaming in this thread and actually READ the on-topic related content in the posts instead. My anti-flame filter is now 100% on, and I will only respond to on-topic issues from now on, because this childish behavior has been going on for too long now!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
See, I even turn the off-topic stuff even into gray text so people read past it, because it is <b>off-topic</b>. And the fact that I've helped out a lot of people over the years on these forums clearly attest to my good will! Even if I am sometimes a bit sarcastic :P
<b>So with that mandatory gray text thingy out of the way...
Constructive criticism, from now on alright! I'll might get a few video's online showing the things I have found, since you guys clearly want to "see" it instead of just booting up the friggin' game to "see" it...</b>
Getting extreme stuttering since patch 160 played a game last night and once it hit 3v3 it was completely unplayable others on server were reporting the same issue too.
Could it be todo with 64bit os's i'm using vista 64bit (not windows 7 as the other are).
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
@hinch, there have been issues with both 64bit version (Vista and win7), but they haven't just started with build160. These issues go back even further then this fps stutter.
For lack of good search-engine in this forums (well it is there, but hidden somehow) Here the link to the advanced search. They should really fix that <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=&act=Search&mode=adv&f=0" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....ode=adv&f=0</a>
You can find a few topics hovering around that discuss the issues with 64-bits systems.
<!--quoteo(post=1818764:date=Dec 23 2010, 05:29 PM:name=daeli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (daeli @ Dec 23 2010, 05:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818764"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You constantly denied that the problem exists. And now you say its obvious?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, but I've been reading this thread and while Kouji may have seemed a bit skeptic as to the root of the issue in the beginning, he has definitely been busting ass trying to help, which makes me even more puzzled as to why james is being such a fruit cake. Speaking of which, I bet he doesn't know a thing about programming.
I've been experiencing this issue as well, so I'm interested in seeing where this goes.
I most definately have the exact same issue all of the time. I just assumed everyone had the problem but I guess not! My computer isn't as beastly as yours but I've still got a Radeon HD 5830, 4GB of RAM, etc. and it's really difficult to play. I originally whined about performance in this post: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111716&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=111716&hl=</a> thinking that everyone had this issue. I didn't dig too much to try and figure out if it was a server issue, client issue, or somewhere in the middle--but I'm pretty sure it was the issue posted here.
So now the child has stopped spewing, let's get back on track, is there any word from the development team as to if they have any possible causes to this issue? The original point of the post before it was derailed by kids was to just highlight how many people are experiencing the issue, so I assume it will now be looked at? If so, feel free to lock the thread as it will have served its point.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
Jamieshepherd, you need to chill out. Disliking someone's responses is no excuse for flaming them. If this thread can't stay constructive, then it'll get locked.
So just to confirm, there are a few people that have said they've only encountered the issue with build 160, but I've been having it since the original engine test. Can those people confirm whether or not they're having the exact same problem, or if it's something similar but possibly unrelated?
i cannot believe how ignorant you all are. even the beta trailers show the view lag/stutter. and if you can't notice i'll trade you a cardboard box for your monitor.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM</a> every time this guy turns his mouse it stutters, lags, skips, changes speeds or some other thing.
i mean i know all of you are seeing it, both in that video and on your computer ingame. can you just stop fanboying and actually give them some good beta feedback? other than "great job guys keep it up!"
<!--quoteo(post=1818815:date=Dec 23 2010, 10:45 PM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 23 2010, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818815"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So just to confirm, there are a few people that have said they've only encountered the issue with build 160, but I've been having it since the original engine test. Can those people confirm whether or not they're having the exact same problem, or if it's something similar but possibly unrelated?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm only here since Beta 159, of course the stuttering was already there. I just noticed since the update to 160 some heavy FPS loss at specific points in a game (can't reproduce them though, they happen at random positions, but then consistently). Just slowdowns from 40+ FPS to 15FPS, without any reason when facing towards a specific direction. But that's not related to the stuttering I think (maybe some kind of bug where it renders things behind walls etc.).
<!--quoteo(post=1818818:date=Dec 23 2010, 10:57 PM:name=commofdoom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (commofdoom @ Dec 23 2010, 10:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818818"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i cannot believe how ignorant you all are. even the beta trailers show the view lag/stutter. and if you can't notice i'll trade you a cardboard box for your monitor.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM</a> every time this guy turns his mouse it stutters, lags, skips, changes speeds or some other thing.
i mean i know all of you are seeing it, both in that video and on your computer ingame. can you just stop fanboying and actually give them some good beta feedback? other than "great job guys keep it up!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who is fanboying? We are all posting on the issue.
<!--quoteo(post=1818818:date=Dec 23 2010, 09:57 PM:name=commofdoom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (commofdoom @ Dec 23 2010, 09:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818818"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i cannot believe how ignorant you all are. even the beta trailers show the view lag/stutter. and if you can't notice i'll trade you a cardboard box for your monitor.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM</a> every time this guy turns his mouse it stutters, lags, skips, changes speeds or some other thing.
i mean i know all of you are seeing it, both in that video and on your computer ingame. can you just stop fanboying and actually give them some good beta feedback? other than "great job guys keep it up!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it was NS2HD that recorded all the footage, and people have mentioned that he experiences a very mild version of the issue, I could be wrong though.
<!--quoteo(post=1818815:date=Dec 24 2010, 12:45 AM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 24 2010, 12:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818815"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So just to confirm, there are a few people that have said they've only encountered the issue with build 160, but I've been having it since the original engine test. Can those people confirm whether or not they're having the exact same problem, or if it's something similar but possibly unrelated?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> At least from alpha for me.
<!--quoteo(post=1818819:date=Dec 23 2010, 10:59 PM:name=Eggcake)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eggcake @ Dec 23 2010, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818819"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm only here since Beta 159, of course the stuttering was already there. I just noticed since the update to 160 some heavy FPS loss at specific points in a game (can't reproduce them though, they happen at random positions, but then consistently). Just slowdowns from 40+ FPS to 15FPS, without any reason when facing towards a specific direction. But that's not related to the stuttering I think (maybe some kind of bug where it renders things behind walls etc.).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes it is related to where you are looking and it's been there since alpha first release
<!--quoteo(post=1818821:date=Dec 23 2010, 11:01 PM:name=Avalon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Avalon @ Dec 23 2010, 11:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who is fanboying? We are all posting on the issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> you aren't specifically
<!--quoteo(post=1818822:date=Dec 23 2010, 11:02 PM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 23 2010, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it was NS2HD that recorded all the footage, and people have mentioned that he experiences a very mild version of the issue, I could be wrong though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> it's not mild even in that video. mild would be happens every few minutes or so, not every time you move.
Comments
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch4OLz4XXjE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch4OLz4XXjE</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This video actually made my day! :)
FPS was 10+ higher though :P
It is kinda funny he doesn't know a listenserver although run in the same process thread as the client, can still add latency, or fps stutter issues in this case, if the listenserver or client has a memory leak or simply can't keep... Also he doesn't seem to realize that latency is not always network related...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reminds me of that person I made end the game because he was complaining about how 'horrible' the patch was because of his comp having issues hosting his listenserver.
Also, I made a mash-up of all the <b>cool, constructive</b> things jamieshepherd has posted so far in this thread. I think it really highlights not only how patient and level headed he is, but also his uncompromising dedication to facilitating an open, welcoming discussion here in our community.
<!--quoteo(post=1818633:date=Dec 22 2010, 10:15 PM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 22 2010, 10:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you should just stop commenting on this thread since you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
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I told you, leave this thread already you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... What can you offer to this thread? You're not a developer, and you're not experiencing the problem. Stop saying ridiculous things like "it must be the server" or "you're turning too fast" - You don't have the issue, so you have no clue, please exit. Turning just makes it easier to spot when there is no animation going on, are you incapable of using your brain when you come to such conclusions? Jesus.
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For everyone who's stupid enough to believe it is lag, please read this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112059" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112059</a> thread where the issue is described in more detail.
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I'm really sick of seeing people who don't have the issue not read the thread before commenting blindly. This issue happens both LOCALLY and ONLINE. This therefore means it is nothing to do with latency or netcode. Please, at least attempt to read the thread before you reply again.
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<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot</a> - You, it appears.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><b>-This one is my favorite, because he found a wikipedia article on idiot!</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
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1) You don't have the problem, therefore you cannot comment on it since you don't even understand what we're getting
2) You are not a programmer, therefore you have no idea what a) the problem might be or b) any solutions for it
3) You are not helping, this thread was made to highlight how many people are getting the issue, and what it is, for the programmers. Not some random idiot who decides that after reading a few threads about 'occlusion culling' and 'lua' he knows what he's talking about.
Kindly exit now. I will not respond to any more of your ridiculous replies, let's get back on topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Awesome stuff! So constructive!
However, it was really interesting to see a considerable slowdown when I had Resource Monitor (Windows 7) running at the same time NS2 did a Lua GC sweep.
1) This is the game as I joined normally, Res Monitor is not running
<a href="http://img10.imageshack.us/i/profilenormal.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5307/profilenormal.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
2) I've now got Res Monitor running. Notice the lag spikes. The game is slowing down a bit when it does a GC sweep.
<a href="http://img211.imageshack.us/i/profileprocmon.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9259/profileprocmon.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
3) I've got the game window unfocused, and its also slow. This is sort of expected though, I know Windows drops the priority on a process if it does not have focus (most of the time).
<a href="http://img135.imageshack.us/i/profilenofocus.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9133/profilenofocus.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Finally, here is the very first performance piece I grabbed when I loaded into the map. Immediately after loading the map it lagged, so I hit SPACE to stop the profile.
<a href="http://img718.imageshack.us/i/firstjoin.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9962/firstjoin.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
The majority of the work was in the GC as you can see.
I don't know why there is no performance increase (even temporarily) with turning off the GC though (supposedly anyway, using the changegcsetting commands).
Also, I made a mash-up of all the <b>cool, constructive</b> things jamieshepherd has posted so far in this thread. I think it really highlights not only how patient and level headed he is, but also his uncompromising dedication to facilitating an open, welcoming discussion here in our community.
Awesome stuff! So constructive!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're missing the part where I said I wanted to be constructive? I just want idiots to stop replying to this thread unless they have something useful. Thanks for stopping by though.
I suppose those periodical, probably garbarge collector calls, not only slow down localy, but:
a) you get bad fps every few seconds
b) the server will send you less updates every few seconds, probably throwing him off for some time because he does garbage collection too
c) the server gets less updates from other clients because they garbage collect to, which makes that you will get less updates, which could lead to "teleporting" players every few seconds
now a,b and c probably don't happen at the same time, so you get "lag" problems all the time.
must be a hard one to fix. good luck max! (i REALLY hope max reads this threads, especially the graphs etc)
Definitely craving a proper fix to end all of this lag once and for all.
<!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro--><i>Right... The fact that I noticed a lot of stuff which also cause fps stutter in the background, but didn't find it necessary to post <b>shiny video's</b> or <b>cool fps tables</b> about. Because they are blatantly obvious to the naked eye when you simply boot up the game and walk around is proof enough. I don't know what jammieshepherds issue is with me, but I do have this problem as well and somehow he has it in his head that I am trying to defend UWE and Spark and don't have these issues...<b>EVERYONE</b> has these issues, some to an unplayable extend much MUCH worse then this "omg FPS stutter can't play whining" and some have it but seem to not notice it, due to lower FPS...
Small sitrep of what I've found so far concerning this stutter, because some of you guys seems to be unable to gather this from posts and instead try to address the responses on trying to address jamie's awful behavior... Well actually jamie is the only one doing it and that seems to negate my findings... So seriously, STFU jamie <-- I normally don't use this kind of language, but it seems common sense just isn't getting trough to you adn this is the only thing you might understand. So I'll say it again STFU and add to this, try reading for a change. Wait what's that, you also have to read posts... Using your own words against you, well it might make it more clear to you, by using your own words...</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Instead of d!cking around by saying leave/shut up/go away/blaargh. READ <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b> - <i>oh the irony of not reading stuff, right jamie?</i>
<ul><li>Occlusion stutter, you can walk around using r_wireframe. Cheats have to be on for this...
<ul><li>Now you can see that Spark is somehow rendering stuff that it shouldn't, props and faces behind walls you can't possibly see. Maybe there are "leaks" in Rockdown?</li><li>It also makes it fairly obvious that Spark is unloading props and faces which are around the corner, Spark thinks you can't see these. However, even though it does a fairly good job at this, some are still "partially in view" so to speak. Resulting in "holes" in the map. Now when you get closer they load into the memory again, when this happens it is very clear there is a small stutter, but it's not just those buggy ones. When larger/more detailed geometry or props load this stutter is more visible.
Most obvious location is on Rockdown when going from the hive towards the marine start trough that long hallway/ramp (east). At the end you can see the floor not being rendered.</li><li>Simply running around the map with r_wireframe you can see geometry being loaded and unloaded behind the scenes, but when they load back into the memory, things tend to hitch/stutter for a short instant.</li></ul></li><li>Latency, yes indeed... Latency!
We tried running ns2_sample on SN.Wolf's server and did notice that this low detail map did increased overall FPS, but the FPS stutter was still present. For a short while the latency on the server was around 200ms, making this stutter even more evident. Mind you it was not rubber banding, it was clearly the FPS hitching.
I already said, I never really noticed this stutter on lower ping servers (50ms-70ms). But the +10fps I got on ns2_sample might have something to do with it as well as people who have a higher FPS then me seem to notice it more often...</li><li>And then there is the movement...
When moving or walking there seems to be more FPS stutter then when just standing still. Yes, indeed... When standing still there is also a stutter! Just go Skulk and observer his breathing animation on the viewmodel and headbobbing of the world, both have a very small amount of it... Running in r_wireframe mode you can even see that while headbobbing idling, Spark is still doing loads of occlusion queries...</li></ul>
Do I seriously need to post video's on this when you can simply go into the game and <b>check for yourself</b>... If it is not within a one click result, it can't be true... Lazy ######s <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I don't know where the hell you get that idea from... I've just read back my posts in this thread, and ignoring the annoying flaming addressed at me and blatantly wrong conclusions made by the obvious flamer in here, it is quite clear I <b>never</b> claimed the problem didn't exist. The commentary video I posted (probably the cause of these flamer conclusions), clearly has a very neglect-able fps stutter. It is just that I hardly noticed it and the big stutter that caused the audio sync to be off by 2 seconds was simply a lag issue, the slideshow Fade (called exec.script) tells me more people had a big lagspike at that time...
But the problem is there, I'm just very lucky to have a lower FPS (heh lucky with a lower fps, imagine that irony :( ). But a lower FPS obviously masks the problem to some extend, which means it is there but hard to notice!
<!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->Note:
Don't you find it weird that I never flame (with one exception in my previous post for a reason). But the stubbornness to see more issues besides a local engine problem, is simply being ignorant, for lack of a better none insulting word! Also about that latency and wikilinks posted... LATENCY can still occur on a localhost, just look at your latency when on your localhost. I am unable for example to get a 0ms latency, it usually hovers around 30 with jumps up to 50-70<b> ON A LOCALHOST</b>! Clearly there is something wrong with the listenserver hosted in the same thread as the client as well, as I have never seen this in another game (unless the server was choking!)
But blindly saying "<i>OMG there is no latency, because I run it locally</i>" is plain wrong! You are STILL running A SERVER locally! In the end Latency, Viral agents, occlusion stutter and movement stutter could ALL be somehow related to the same issue...
[edit]
And don't come in here flaming again! I told jamie once before I don't flame or report people, but he has crossed this line. I am a VERY tolerant person (as shown by my restraint in this thread), but these blatantly wrong conclusions based on wikifiles and then proceeding to call me <b>and</b> others idiots and morons, when he is the one who is clearly wrong and closed minded as to possible causes, is seriously pissing me off! In all likelihood he will now come in here and flame away once more, very constructive. I would appreciate if everyone just ignore all the flaming in this thread and actually READ the on-topic related content in the posts instead. My anti-flame filter is now 100% on, and I will only respond to on-topic issues from now on, because this childish behavior has been going on for too long now!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
See, I even turn the off-topic stuff even into gray text so people read past it, because it is <b>off-topic</b>. And the fact that I've helped out a lot of people over the years on these forums clearly attest to my good will! Even if I am sometimes a bit sarcastic :P
<b>So with that mandatory gray text thingy out of the way...
Constructive criticism, from now on alright! I'll might get a few video's online showing the things I have found, since you guys clearly want to "see" it instead of just booting up the friggin' game to "see" it...</b>
Getting extreme stuttering since patch 160 played a game last night and once it hit 3v3 it was completely unplayable others on server were reporting the same issue too.
Could it be todo with 64bit os's i'm using vista 64bit (not windows 7 as the other are).
For lack of good search-engine in this forums (well it is there, but hidden somehow) Here the link to the advanced search. They should really fix that <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=&act=Search&mode=adv&f=0" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....ode=adv&f=0</a>
You can find a few topics hovering around that discuss the issues with 64-bits systems.
Sorry, but I've been reading this thread and while Kouji may have seemed a bit skeptic as to the root of the issue in the beginning, he has definitely been busting ass trying to help, which makes me even more puzzled as to why james is being such a fruit cake. Speaking of which, I bet he doesn't know a thing about programming.
I've been experiencing this issue as well, so I'm interested in seeing where this goes.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM</a>
every time this guy turns his mouse it stutters, lags, skips, changes speeds or some other thing.
i mean i know all of you are seeing it, both in that video and on your computer ingame. can you just stop fanboying and actually give them some good beta feedback? other than "great job guys keep it up!"
I'm only here since Beta 159, of course the stuttering was already there.
I just noticed since the update to 160 some heavy FPS loss at specific points in a game (can't reproduce them though, they happen at random positions, but then consistently). Just slowdowns from 40+ FPS to 15FPS, without any reason when facing towards a specific direction.
But that's not related to the stuttering I think (maybe some kind of bug where it renders things behind walls etc.).
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM</a>
every time this guy turns his mouse it stutters, lags, skips, changes speeds or some other thing.
i mean i know all of you are seeing it, both in that video and on your computer ingame. can you just stop fanboying and actually give them some good beta feedback? other than "great job guys keep it up!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who is fanboying? We are all posting on the issue.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLFxRrgUzqM</a>
every time this guy turns his mouse it stutters, lags, skips, changes speeds or some other thing.
i mean i know all of you are seeing it, both in that video and on your computer ingame. can you just stop fanboying and actually give them some good beta feedback? other than "great job guys keep it up!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it was NS2HD that recorded all the footage, and people have mentioned that he experiences a very mild version of the issue, I could be wrong though.
At least from alpha for me.
I just noticed since the update to 160 some heavy FPS loss at specific points in a game (can't reproduce them though, they happen at random positions, but then consistently). Just slowdowns from 40+ FPS to 15FPS, without any reason when facing towards a specific direction.
But that's not related to the stuttering I think (maybe some kind of bug where it renders things behind walls etc.).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes it is related to where you are looking and it's been there since alpha first release
<!--quoteo(post=1818821:date=Dec 23 2010, 11:01 PM:name=Avalon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Avalon @ Dec 23 2010, 11:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who is fanboying? We are all posting on the issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you aren't specifically
<!--quoteo(post=1818822:date=Dec 23 2010, 11:02 PM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 23 2010, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it was NS2HD that recorded all the footage, and people have mentioned that he experiences a very mild version of the issue, I could be wrong though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's not mild even in that video. mild would be happens every few minutes or so, not every time you move.