<!--quoteo(post=1813941:date=Dec 6 2010, 03:40 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 6 2010, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813941"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->^ Agreee with you. Dynamic Infestation as it was shown in the video (that was source engine right?) is what really got my attention and got me excited for NS2. If it turns out to be an <b><i>absolute server killer</i></b> I will KILL MYSELF !!!!!!!! [snip]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
networking too. i'm sure they'll figure it out, but dynamic meshes and hit registration will be a performance challenge. The trick is to send efficient data to the client so everyone sees the same thing / hit reg makes sense - certainly aren't going to send meshes. The server/network can't support an unlimited number of DI 'decals' so it may be something closer to the marine's powergrid, but with more granularity. would be easier for the server to manage predefined DI regions that are turned on and off dynamically. this is of course all conjecture, but my main point is the DI gameplay potential > the implementation shown in the video. If it doesnt look exactly like that video for client/server/network performance reasons I'm cool - as long as it is in.
I don't know anything about programming - but if I was a dev.
I would make it like blood spat decals (that spread), but have the growth depth (distance from wall) of the mesh limited to 200mm.
So you can have dynamic growth, but keep the depth client side so that it does not effect performance.
If you had 'big mounds' coming out the wall, and it was client side - some people might try to hide behind it whilst others could see you. So the server would have to send clients info about the depth of X at every point of the mesh.
The only thing I would make server side maybe, is some cool little 'detail' growths. Like hanging slime or something.
What I want it to do: 1. Exist 2. Give these drab maps some personality. 3. Simply give an idea of how much of the map is under alien control. 4. Otherwise not affect gameplay.
What I want it to do: 1. Exist 2. Give these drab maps some personality. 3. Simply give an idea of how much of the map is under alien control. 4. Otherwise not affect gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I want it to do: 1. Exist 2. Give these drab maps some personality. 3. Simply give an idea of how much of the map is under alien control. 4. Otherwise not affect gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed on 1 - 3
4 hmmm, maybe have a look again, after 1 - 3 have actually been playably implemented
I guess the server will coordinate di through a heatmap or something. or it will be that flat that it doesnt really matter and have a general location modifier (you stand on or fly over it, you are affected, period).
I recall the devs talking about DI have 3 distinct levels of growth that would provide different benefits. At the highest level of growth, it was said the DI would create areas of cover for the smaller kharaa classes. This is why some of the maps seem too vacant in the current form. These larger rooms will become more kharaa/skulk friendly when 3rd level DI is present.
As for the actual coding implementation, I think it will be pretty similar to the 'dynamic squads' blobs that the marine comm has. It will be represented at a 2D territory for gameplay purposes.
How this will be implemented visually is another matter that I've tried to discuss in the past. At level 1 of DI, my idea would be for it to only be present in corners and small spaces. This would make it very subtle at level 1 since most of the space it would occupy would be shadowy corners and vents. At the 2nd level of DI, it could start to cover more of the space with just a few gaps in larger rooms. Basically the DI would start mostly growing along vertexes. As the level of growth increased, the distance from the vertexes of coverage would also expand until at level 3 pretty much everything would be overgrown.
Around level 2 is when the kharaa orange-ish lights could start to appear.
All the gameplay effects will have to be sorted and balanced once it's implemented. I could see it being very similar to the power-grid, but instead of being concentrated at the single powernodes, it would be more distributed and tendril-like. It wouldn't have quite the same single point of success/failure like the power-grid. Similar yet oddly different.
Hope that DI will be random so that every game is diffrent from another.
it would be nice if the "slime substance" drops to the ground like light rain so that the marines thats moves on DI can´t see so much. (like the water effect by crysis ^^)
Another idea is that DI should block some doors which you can open as a marine or alien without DI.
How about stopping the marine sprint function on floors covered with the infection? Another idea is to allow gorges to spray a marine structure and cover it in infection, thus slowly damaging it until a marine welds or flames it - or it explodes!
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1816217:date=Dec 15 2010, 08:18 PM:name=Sentinel1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sentinel1 @ Dec 15 2010, 08:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1816217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about stopping the marine sprint function on floors covered with the infection? Another idea is to allow gorges to spray a marine structure and cover it in infection, thus slowly damaging it until a marine welds or flames it - or it explodes!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Let's have em completely off balance then, waving arms and fiddly equilibrium for the fun of it :P
I don't care what it should do but I would love to see that in addition to however it will be spread through the map the gorge is dropping little "spores of DI" as passive ability, laying out "trails". The more a path is used by gorges the "thicker" it will get, growing but not giving full bonus. Once connencted with the real DI fast growing becoming a part of it.
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
edited December 2010
I just wrote a large comment on the subject but it was eliminated by an accidental click :( Here are the cliffnotes:
DI as we saw in the video isn't gonna happen so I don't expect it. I would like to see a form of DI when NS2 ships, and I think there are a few ways to make it feasible.
I think DI is doable if mappers put the effect in sections with a lot less complexity than we all sort of imagined. A pseudo dynamic DI would suffice. Visually it could just be a really simple animation (like a static mesh for a room that just scales to fit to "fill" the section) and the feel of DI comes through the game mechanics rather than the visuals.
One concern for DI is terrain/environment coverage, more specifically for gameplay necessities such as Tech Points, Resource Nodes and Power Nodes. I'm not sure how DI will be executed in order to prevent obstruction...
Another concern involves ventilation shafts. Maybe DI could grow around them, or Kharaa players possess "vent vision" via Hive Sight to identify entrances and exits.
Either way, I just want it in some form, doesn't have to be precedual but would be awesome if UWE can pull it off as intended!
For me they pulled off something special in NS1, the talent is there. I suspect we'll see more and more great and well-executed features as time goes on.
<!--quoteo(post=1813938:date=Dec 7 2010, 09:34 AM:name=WatchMaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WatchMaker @ Dec 7 2010, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813938"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From the first official mention of the power grid, I've had one design in mind for the DI system: The marine equivalent of a power node. I've always pictured Marines having "powered" rooms and aliens having "infected" rooms, with untouched/uncontrolled territory simply being unpowered and uninfected. How cool would it be to be on the Marine team pushing into an unpowered space station, turning on the lights room by room, until you hit one filled with DI and chambers? Or how about being an Alien, spreading the infestation and watching it creep over top of the human tech inside the station as you gain the ability to evolve into more powerful lifeforms?
And if you're not one for immersion or atmosphere, lets drag some of the turret/hydra discussion here. What if alien structures only 'matured' on DI, leaving independent structures weaker? You'd be adding to the asymmetry and another layer for strategy. Or how about DI attacking a powered room directly through only Commander interaction? Or vice versa? There are literately hundreds of directions the game design behind Dynamic Infestation can take NS2, this is just how I've been picturing it.
The power grid gameplay will probably be what makes or breaks NS2. Basically, it will control all the atmosphere and strategy NS2 has to offer. It is also a very intuitive gameplay mechanic that would make a very strong selling point to potential buyers, both scifi fans and competitive players. (Hell, the DI video from years ago made me excited for NS2 in the first place!) I honestly can't think of a feature more critical to NS2 than the power grid system, and it cannot function properly without the Dynamic Infestation half.
With that in mind, we've seen very little of it in the Beta, which just blows me away. It's something I would have expected the Alpha to prioritize, yet we didn't even see it in the Alpha. I'm sure DI is an extremely complicated feature to program, and I'm sure it will break the Beta terribly, but the power grid system is not complete without it. For the love of all that is holy, just throw in a terribly cheap place holder so we can start doing REAL tests of the REAL NS2.
If I seem frustrated, yes, I am very frustrated. The incredible NS2 I have imagined over the years is heading in a very underwhelming direction, and that terrifies me. Normally I'd just shut my trap and watch, but I loved NS1 too much to let that happen without putting up a fight. And it seems I am not alone, either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excellent ideas from everyone that commented on DI. Especially the above quote.
NS2 must and should be tied between the power grid system and the DI. The two forces fight over control and this is bread and butter for that control.
I would like to see DI in beta so we can get the real feel of NS2.
Game is improving which is great. So many features to go. DI is a big part of the Alien side and I hope the devs listen to the community because this will make the game stronger.
we really have little amount of information from the developers about Dynamic Infestation. And we only have one video which shows only alpha stages of what it can do and the possibles it may have.
I really like to see an updated version of the old video we saw, and yes, more developers view on this is needed. I'm guessing how it looks, acts and spreads might be different than the video we saw.
When marines travel in groups trough DI it should randomly make one of them get stuck if the he stays in a place too long. If he get's assistance by another marine he will be freed quicker (requires full attention of the other guy), otherwise the marine is stuck there for a while :D
I know many people dislike effects like that but if the frequency of it happening is properly balanced and randomized to a certain degree it might end in some interesting gameplay and fun moments ^^
<!--quoteo(post=1817387:date=Dec 20 2010, 01:00 AM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Dec 20 2010, 01:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817387"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When marines travel in groups trough DI it should randomly make one of them get stuck if the he stays in a place too long.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reason why Stomp was removed from Onos or devour... Stopping the player from moving or general control sucks and even tough this would be a "cool idea" for a movie, not so much for a game as players would get frustrated.
stomp i guess I might agree with even though this ability was really important to have. But removing devour? its like coolest thing, eating marines was really fun.
I just hope they post an updated version of Dynamic Infestation, only video we seen was when it was in alpha stage. Even I can wait till they add it in-game, I just want to see the updated version!!
<!--quoteo(post=1817456:date=Dec 20 2010, 06:08 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Dec 20 2010, 06:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817456"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just hope they post an updated version of Dynamic Infestation, only video we seen was when it was in alpha stage. Even I can wait till they add it in-game, I just want to see the updated version!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree totally, lets see some o that updated creep!!!! don't even put it in the game cause it might cause some more lag issues, but a video is fine, lets se it!
Comments
[snip]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
networking too. i'm sure they'll figure it out, but dynamic meshes and hit registration will be a performance challenge. The trick is to send efficient data to the client so everyone sees the same thing / hit reg makes sense - certainly aren't going to send meshes. The server/network can't support an unlimited number of DI 'decals' so it may be something closer to the marine's powergrid, but with more granularity. would be easier for the server to manage predefined DI regions that are turned on and off dynamically. this is of course all conjecture, but my main point is the DI gameplay potential > the implementation shown in the video. If it doesnt look exactly like that video for client/server/network performance reasons I'm cool - as long as it is in.
Don't want a repeat of hydra server lag.
I would make it like blood spat decals (that spread), but have the growth depth (distance from wall) of the mesh limited to 200mm.
So you can have dynamic growth, but keep the depth client side so that it does not effect performance.
If you had 'big mounds' coming out the wall, and it was client side - some people might try to hide behind it whilst others could see you. So the server would have to send clients info about the depth of X at every point of the mesh.
The only thing I would make server side maybe, is some cool little 'detail' growths. Like hanging slime or something.
What I want it to do:
1. Exist
2. Give these drab maps some personality.
3. Simply give an idea of how much of the map is under alien control.
4. Otherwise not affect gameplay.
What I want it to do:
1. Exist
2. Give these drab maps some personality.
3. Simply give an idea of how much of the map is under alien control.
4. Otherwise not affect gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This....
And open locked doors :P
What I want it to do:
1. Exist
2. Give these drab maps some personality.
3. Simply give an idea of how much of the map is under alien control.
4. Otherwise not affect gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed on 1 - 3
4 hmmm, maybe have a look again, after 1 - 3 have actually been playably implemented
or it will be that flat that it doesnt really matter and have a general location modifier (you stand on or fly over it, you are affected, period).
As for the actual coding implementation, I think it will be pretty similar to the 'dynamic squads' blobs that the marine comm has. It will be represented at a 2D territory for gameplay purposes.
How this will be implemented visually is another matter that I've tried to discuss in the past. At level 1 of DI, my idea would be for it to only be present in corners and small spaces. This would make it very subtle at level 1 since most of the space it would occupy would be shadowy corners and vents. At the 2nd level of DI, it could start to cover more of the space with just a few gaps in larger rooms. Basically the DI would start mostly growing along vertexes. As the level of growth increased, the distance from the vertexes of coverage would also expand until at level 3 pretty much everything would be overgrown.
Around level 2 is when the kharaa orange-ish lights could start to appear.
All the gameplay effects will have to be sorted and balanced once it's implemented. I could see it being very similar to the power-grid, but instead of being concentrated at the single powernodes, it would be more distributed and tendril-like. It wouldn't have quite the same single point of success/failure like the power-grid. Similar yet oddly different.
I can't wait to see DI implemented.
yep, DI will be awesome i think.
Hope that DI will be random so that every game is diffrent from another.
it would be nice if the "slime substance" drops to the ground like light rain so that the marines thats moves on DI can´t see so much. (like the water effect by crysis ^^)
Another idea is that DI should block some doors which you can open as a marine or alien without DI.
Let's have em completely off balance then, waving arms and fiddly equilibrium for the fun of it :P
DI as we saw in the video isn't gonna happen so I don't expect it. I would like to see a form of DI when NS2 ships, and I think there are a few ways to make it feasible.
I think DI is doable if mappers put the effect in sections with a lot less complexity than we all sort of imagined. A pseudo dynamic DI would suffice. Visually it could just be a really simple animation (like a static mesh for a room that just scales to fit to "fill" the section) and the feel of DI comes through the game mechanics rather than the visuals.
Another concern involves ventilation shafts. Maybe DI could grow around them, or Kharaa players possess "vent vision" via Hive Sight to identify entrances and exits.
Either way, I just want it in some form, doesn't have to be precedual but would be awesome if UWE can pull it off as intended!
And if you're not one for immersion or atmosphere, lets drag some of the turret/hydra discussion here. What if alien structures only 'matured' on DI, leaving independent structures weaker? You'd be adding to the asymmetry and another layer for strategy. Or how about DI attacking a powered room directly through only Commander interaction? Or vice versa? There are literately hundreds of directions the game design behind Dynamic Infestation can take NS2, this is just how I've been picturing it.
The power grid gameplay will probably be what makes or breaks NS2. Basically, it will control all the atmosphere and strategy NS2 has to offer. It is also a very intuitive gameplay mechanic that would make a very strong selling point to potential buyers, both scifi fans and competitive players. (Hell, the DI video from years ago made me excited for NS2 in the first place!) I honestly can't think of a feature more critical to NS2 than the power grid system, and it cannot function properly without the Dynamic Infestation half.
With that in mind, we've seen very little of it in the Beta, which just blows me away. It's something I would have expected the Alpha to prioritize, yet we didn't even see it in the Alpha. I'm sure DI is an extremely complicated feature to program, and I'm sure it will break the Beta terribly, but the power grid system is not complete without it. For the love of all that is holy, just throw in a terribly cheap place holder so we can start doing REAL tests of the REAL NS2.
If I seem frustrated, yes, I am very frustrated. The incredible NS2 I have imagined over the years is heading in a very underwhelming direction, and that terrifies me. Normally I'd just shut my trap and watch, but I loved NS1 too much to let that happen without putting up a fight. And it seems I am not alone, either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excellent ideas from everyone that commented on DI. Especially the above quote.
NS2 must and should be tied between the power grid system and the DI. The two forces fight over control and this is bread and butter for that control.
I would like to see DI in beta so we can get the real feel of NS2.
Game is improving which is great. So many features to go. DI is a big part of the Alien side and I hope the devs listen to the community because this will make the game stronger.
Anyway...
I haven't seen a Dev reply on the DI subject and would like to have some confidence on what UWE have in-store for us.
... Or are they not sure them selves how it's going to work?
Some comments on how they see it and if they will take on what the community has mentioned would be appreciated!
Regards,
ERASER
I really like to see an updated version of the old video we saw, and yes, more developers view on this is needed. I'm guessing how it looks, acts and spreads might be different than the video we saw.
give us updated version, pretty please :P!!
If he get's assistance by another marine he will be freed quicker (requires full attention of the other guy), otherwise the marine is stuck there for a while :D
I know many people dislike effects like that but if the frequency of it happening is properly balanced and randomized to a certain degree it might end in some interesting gameplay and fun moments ^^
Keep paralyzing effect out of NS2. Would be a huuuge disadvantage to marines.
awWWW HELL NEAAAAWWWWWWWWH
I just hope they post an updated version of Dynamic Infestation, only video we seen was when it was in alpha stage. Even I can wait till they add it in-game, I just want to see the updated version!!
I agree totally, lets see some o that updated creep!!!! don't even put it in the game cause it might cause some more lag issues, but a video is fine, lets se it!