I already got my money's worth
Tig
Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
Comments
->flametrower looks wierd in commander mode btw, too long and narrow.
yup the flame /flamethrower is not very realistic. The flame should be more like in Team Fortress 2. And the range of the flame thrower should be reduced.
It's somewhat realistic and that's why people are complaining. If anything it's too short-ranged to be realistic. People want the game/movie flamethrower, that doesn't reach more than a few meters.
Here's an american flame thrower from world war II being demonstrated:
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Modern flame throwers can reach as far as 50 to 80 meters. Vehicle based flamethrowers can go over twice as far. They use sticky napalm-like fuel that sticks and doesn't burn to quickly in the narrow beam. Movies use propane for safety reasons, which doesn't reach very far and doesn't stick to stuff
Here's a vehicle flame thrower for the sheer awesome of it:
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(edited to add lots of stuff.)
So either the mappers will have to think about how to make it possible to hit a flamethrower, either as a lerk from outside the flame range, or as a skulk which pops out from a vent so its a very short distance to where they are most likely to stand.
Or the flamethrower will have to be very weak, very limited ammo, and all that.
The only thing that's not realistic is, that the animation is always straight away from the shooter. If you move the flame, the animation has to be smoothened out, like a "bow" of fire.
For balance: You could make aliens, that stand far away, take less damage and having less "on fire"-effects on their screen. And close shots to be the overkill. That's realistic and balanced, the cool long flame could stay this way.
Edit: To the video of rl flamers: yeah, americans...have a big laugh at one of the most gruesome weapons ever made. This should not entertain, it should make you think. whatever.
The issue currently is that you can do this with an RPM of 60, run around, spray it into walls near you like it is not even hot and that the aliens view goes blind.
These higher tier weapons have no character yet, because they just feel like 'more powerful' lmgs.
I would love to see it as a very powerful and effective anti structure, anti life form weapon. Where the positives are offset by negatives such as exploding a few seconds after death, being slow turning / moving whilst firing (as if you are trying to control the power of it), lowering the marines situational awareness because it is loud and effects your view (heat shimmer shader for the air - not as a blinder, but for effect).
Aliens roles are defined by class - marines should be defined by weapon.
It would also force players to work as a team, to protect the flame thrower from rear attack. Whether a skulk gets in from the front quickly (this would be near impossible) or takes a vent and attacks from the rear. On his own there should be no way he can react in time.
This would offset an entire team buying them, because if a skulk got close it would be as dangerous to you as the skulk. There also be the risk of exploding a few seconds after death onto your team.
It would also mean that the shotty and lmg could be as useful late game, because you have to defend the flamer guy. But if you cover his rear, you can use him to force routes through the level very effectively. This would see them being bough for a use when needed, not just because it is a better weapon.
Same should go for sentries, that are far too weak at the moment. But that is a different story.
I think it's better reduce walk speed 50% at least.
The issue currently is that you can do this with an RPM of 60, run around, spray it into walls near you like it is not even hot and that the aliens view goes blind.
These higher tier weapons have no character yet, because they just feel like 'more powerful' lmgs.
I would love to see it as a very powerful and effective anti structure, anti life form weapon. Where the positives are offset by negatives such as exploding a few seconds after death, being slow turning / moving whilst firing (as if you are trying to control the power of it), lowering the marines situational awareness because it is loud and effects your view (heat shimmer shader for the air - not as a blinder, but for effect).
Aliens roles are defined by class - marines should be defined by weapon.
It would also force players to work as a team, to protect the flame thrower from rear attack. Whether a skulk gets in from the front quickly (this would be near impossible) or takes a vent and attacks from the rear. On his own there should be no way he can react in time.
This would offset an entire team buying them, because if a skulk got close it would be as dangerous to you as the skulk. There also be the risk of exploding a few seconds after death onto your team.
It would also mean that the shotty and lmg could be as useful late game, because you have to defend the flamer guy. But if you cover his rear, you can use him to force routes through the level very effectively. This would see them being bough for a use when needed, not just because it is a better weapon.
Same should go for sentries, that are far too weak at the moment. But that is a different story.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Runteh has always made the most sense about the flame thrower. What he is saying is exactly right. I am so sick and tired of playing a game and as soon as the marines get flame throwers the aliens just start to do nothing but whine whine whine whine whine. Even in it's current unbalanced state it doesn't make marines invincible.
Mainly it is unbalanced due to the fact that it completely blinds you. It's SUPPOSED to take out Skulks, Lerks and Gorges in seconds. Tier 1 life forms shouldn't be able to take a lot of damage from a high tier weapon. The fade can currently take a very good beating from the flame thrower. The Fade gets a good 30 seconds of consistant damage from direct flame thrower fire before it has to try and get out of there. The problem is it blinds you almost 100%.
When the blinding effect is lowered and fades can either escape or kill the marine with the flame thrower you will see the FT being used more for it's primary reason. Clearing Structures and covering shot gunners/grenades and the newly named Arcs for taking out hives against the lower tier alien life forms.
Of course it's unbalanced in the BETA right now. UWE is NOT going to balance weapons specifically for the BETA. They are getting everything ready for Version 1.0. Everything is going to be coming into the game either where they want it for V 1.0 or very close to.
And they are aware that the flame should not be a Sword of death when a marine turns. This has been mentioned. Currently the FT is not complete. They stated the function for the flame to lag behind the nozzle of a turning marine will be added in later.
Once the blinding effect is reduced you can all stop your complaining and actually realize it is not as powerful as you all think it is going to be.
+1
Having this to draw your attention plus maybe the movement impacts would make the flamer 'feel' a bit nicer. Especially since this will make for nice bursts and plumes of flame instead of streams of utter death.
Having this to draw your attention plus maybe the movement impacts would make the flamer 'feel' a bit nicer. Especially since this will make for nice bursts and plumes of flame instead of streams of utter death.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe something less drastic as exploding? Perhaps just the standard overheating of a certain component of the weapon?
Makes the marines more coordinated to avoid frying each other, also reduces the run and spray _everywhere_ tactics. Would make it feel more powerful if you have to back out of the way to let the flamethrower dude come through to wipe out the enemy base.
Would also add tactics for the aliens as they could jump on a flamethrower dude to scare him into frying his own team...
Actually, I'm new here.. is there a reason there's no friendly fire in the first place? If so ignore me.
Makes the marines more coordinated to avoid frying each other, also reduces the run and spray _everywhere_ tactics. Would make it feel more powerful if you have to back out of the way to let the flamethrower dude come through to wipe out the enemy base.
Would also add tactics for the aliens as they could jump on a flamethrower dude to scare him into frying his own team...
Actually, I'm new here.. is there a reason there's no friendly fire in the first place? If so ignore me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, the devs were trying to avoid griefing (spelling?).
Mainly it is unbalanced due to the fact that it completely blinds you. It's SUPPOSED to take out Skulks, Lerks and Gorges in seconds. Tier 1 life forms shouldn't be able to take a lot of damage from a high tier weapon. The fade can currently take a very good beating from the flame thrower. The Fade gets a good 30 seconds of consistant damage from direct flame thrower fire before it has to try and get out of there. The problem is it blinds you almost 100%.
When the blinding effect is lowered and fades can either escape or kill the marine with the flame thrower you will see the FT being used more for it's primary reason. Clearing Structures and covering shot gunners/grenades and the newly named Arcs for taking out hives against the lower tier alien life forms.
Of course it's unbalanced in the BETA right now. UWE is NOT going to balance weapons specifically for the BETA. They are getting everything ready for Version 1.0. Everything is going to be coming into the game either where they want it for V 1.0 or very close to.
And they are aware that the flame should not be a Sword of death when a marine turns. This has been mentioned. Currently the FT is not complete. They stated the function for the flame to lag behind the nozzle of a turning marine will be added in later.
Once the blinding effect is reduced you can all stop your complaining and actually realize it is not as powerful as you all think it is going to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so god damn /signed :)
btw. you can win games against rines with flames. its all due teamwork. ive played a game which i joined after rines got flames. aliens were down to one hive, no harvesters, no ressources. we started a coordinated rush at their base with two gorges and 3 skulks. we totally dominated them and i believe only one skulk died :- / think about it....
This is why the flame thrower actually should be more powerful, and hindered in other ways. Such as turn speed, situational awareness, etc... Once aliens can see, skulks will be able to get kills in - i'm sure of that.
You should be the guy that gets shoved in the front door to clear structures, but also incredibly vulnerable whilst doing so. It balances things out nicely. Sure, aliens won't be able to attack from the front, they'll end up dying very quickly. But it means that the whole team won't buy one and end up running the whole length of Tram and jumping around the hive. Maybe even have it so if one guy explodes, the other flamers are effected somehow.
It should be more akin to the tank moments out of the L4D series imo - a more covert ARC (siege) until you start using it.
Otherwise you have to balance things solely on damage, and then every weapon just feels the same but slightly more powerful. Weapons in NS2 need a purpose, and should define your role.
Otherwise we will end up playing 1 hour games - that I want to see happening out of equally skilled teams, not the slow I punch you, you punch me games that used to happen in NS1.
But what really 'defines' the alien team (as their strength) is they agility, and movement styles in the X,Y,Z axis.
I think the Marines should be defined by a high positive, high negative feel. Such as being very powerful in front on attacks, but usless in ambushes - especially from the rear.
It would really create the feel of the marines being 'surrounded' by an alien environment that they are clearing out, and far more claustrophobic. Especially once DI is introduced.
And, I think people worry to much about the flamethrower. They just stuck it in there but will take care of it. Trust me, there is no way balance will stay the way it is. And you all know that, which is why I'm surprised the flamethrower is debated so much. It will get done, in time, no need to bring it to attention every 5 minutes.
Honestly. Look at the size of the skulk, lerk and gorge. How long do you honestly think a organic life form of that size could take from constant damage of a flame? Like I've been saying. The Flame Thrower will be balanced out when the blinding effect is lowered. The fade can already last a very long time against it. Long enough to blink up to a marine (even on fire) and kill him when the blinding issue is fixed.
The FT is meant to quickly kill the lower alien life forms. Also the onos is not in the game yet. The FT's main purpose is really for clearing structures.
I'll say it again. When the blinding issue is fixed the fade will be able to take out marines with the FT easily....especially now that marines moving backwards will have their movement speed reduced in the next patch. The game is not complete, so calling a weapon that is intended to be balanced when everything is fully implemented, over powered is really dumb. The only thing wrong with the FT right now is the blinding effect which was stated is going to be fixed.
Also regarding to your comment. It will be less easy to land hits on when they implement the flame lagging behind the nozzle when a marine turns.
I'm not saying the game has to be perfectly balanced at this point, but when something is so ridiculously OP that people don't want to play, then you've got a problem.
Makes the marines more coordinated to avoid frying each other, also reduces the run and spray _everywhere_ tactics. Would make it feel more powerful if you have to back out of the way to let the flamethrower dude come through to wipe out the enemy base.
Would also add tactics for the aliens as they could jump on a flamethrower dude to scare him into frying his own team...
Actually, I'm new here.. is there a reason there's no friendly fire in the first place? If so ignore me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because ff is one of the easiest ways to grief. There is an alternative, damage reflection, where damage you do to a friendly is instead applied to you. I've never seen it done in a game officially, but I've played on servers that use it as a plugin and its pretty effective in preventing run and gun tactics without causing griefing.
And, I think people worry to much about the flamethrower. They just stuck it in there but will take care of it. Trust me, there is no way balance will stay the way it is. And you all know that, which is why I'm surprised the flamethrower is debated so much. It will get done, in time, no need to bring it to attention every 5 minutes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thank you very much! i've gotten some positive feedback, i'll keep making videos :)
thoughts on music/no music?
Generally you want background music to be in the background, you shouldn't notice it, it's just there to fill the airspace and stop you noticing the silence. Just as visual backgrounds are there to fill the space and stop you noticing the endless void of nothingness that would be there if you removed the universe.
Generally you want background music to be in the background, you shouldn't notice it, it's just there to fill the airspace and stop you noticing the silence. Just as visual backgrounds are there to fill the space and stop you noticing the endless void of nothingness that would be there if you removed the universe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i softened it a lot and chose instrumental versions of the songs. but next time, i'll tone it down more. thanks for the feedback :)