Marine weapon: Land mine

louis cardinal · December 2010

<div class="IPBDescription">If your reading this you should have already opened the topic.</div>Great apologies if:

im stupid and land mines as a idea is an already existing topic

Or

Im just stupid
<span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%">
<u>Marine Land Mine:</u></span>

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">THIS can be purchased at the armory,</span> these will<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"> NOT require a research and are available at the very start of the game,</span> when you<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"> buy them with your plasma resources,</span><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"> you get to have ONE mine</span>, <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">only one every time you buy it at the armory.</span>

YOU: Why just 1? i want to blow up the twin towers again? and cause WWIII

Because every person on the team can buy these and imagine how unfair and laggy the game would be if this was to be.

This land mine will be a little bit bigger than the one from ns1, this is a LAND MINE, therefore it is for the aliens to trip/touch and die with, not to climb ladder or make a blocade like in ns1, this will be prevented with the limit of carrying 1 mine and the land mine's physical entity that cannot be stepped on and stood on. The marine can set the mine with a realistic respectable range, so he could jump and place it perhaps on the wall Or even the ceiling if he wanted to do so.

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">This land mine has TWO methods of placement, right-clicking will switch between the fire of this, one is to make the land mine activate by TOUCH and one is by setting a LAZER that shoots out of the face of the mine.
</span>
<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">The land mine will deal damage that is enough to kill a skulk but severely damage a lerk or a gorge, punch a fade and barely tickle a onos.</span>

heres my estimation:

1 mine= skulks

1+1/2 mines= lerk

2+1/2 mines= gorge

You get the picture?

The land mine will have the <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">area of detonation aproximate to a grenade launcher blast, </span>but damage is weaker (isnt it?)

The damage of the land mine WILL or WILL NOT increase as damage level is upped? i dont know thats up to you guys...

The land mine will be placed,<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"> if another is placed near it will be placed with an respectable fair space between to prevent instant kill when it explodes.</span>

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">Setting a TOUCH mine:</span>

This mine will detonate on TOUCH contact, so steeping or walking sideways into it will make it explode, so because they touched it it will do maximum damage to that alien because they are very close to it, proximity is damage, this is the advantage of this mine although it requires touch.

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">Setting a LAZER mine:</span>

This is the same mine, just a laser pops out (but the light of the laser (red) can only be seen when close up to it (lets say 5 meters?)

Or do aliens see infared light (is it Infared?)

So this can be less/more effective because it has a laser that triggers when a alien passes through it but it could deal less damage because that alien might be far or not so close to that mine, unless the alien is like right beside it and tickles the mine.

This mine will be aproximatly the size of a hydra's base, that big yes so its not so cheap and can be avoided (unless laser or distracted)

THIS mine will have a <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">beamy red light glow in the center of it</span> when it has been armed, <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">when held in the marine's hands it appears yellow, when it turns red it is on and armed (</span>and that red glow is also where the laser can shoot out for aliens to trip on)

This mine will <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">be coloured metallic and the light has it's purpose of it being seen, although if looked upon from the side it is almost unnoticable.</span>

HOLD ON A MINUTE IM VERY SMART AND A GENIUS, WHY THE HELL DO I NEED THIS? I CAN KILL A ONOS WITH MY EYES CLOSED!

Well this is 100000% what marines NEED and 10000% what marines HAD in ns1 which solved the problems:

<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%">-alien rush, this will add a new style to the game and make the aliens more aware of how weak little skulk rushers can be countered

-Hey another weapon in the game? whos not in, its freaking awesome.

-If cloak gets implemented this mine is like the only way to detect the damn alien buggers so it will make it more fair and counter the cloaked aliens.

-a onos doesnt like getting it's feet full of sharpnel, good counter against onos's and any other methods of rushing in and killing marines.</span>

<span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><u>A RECAPP OR NEW THINGS TO SAY:</u></span>

This deals damage that can kill a full health skulk, but hurt other life forms and possibly kill them if they hit too many. Also this can be set LAZER or TOUCH mode with the right-click function, the marine can set these within range so he can only reach the places that he can go.

This mine has a area of effect of an grenade launcher, proximity scales damage so close up hurts alot, far away is a tickle.

(if cloak is implemented later) yes it explodes when you are cloaked and you trip the laser/touch it.

Does it hurt yourself Or possible other marines when explodes? thats for you guys to decide, not sure about that one or what i want for that.

What happens when a lerk shoots a spike on it? Explodes instantly

What happens when:

spores, no because its not biological

Parasite, lol maybe but im not sure if thats exactly fair.

Gorge spit? yes definetly

Hydra shooted spike? yes and i atually want this because i want the aliens to know that they have mines and hydras will auto target them in priority of human players/sentries/buildings/MACS ETC

Make sure that marines dont Rush in and mass plant as a team+ start chomping down a hive.

HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR THE MINE TO GO FROM UN-ARMED (yellow beamy light) TO ARMED?( Red light OR laser shoots out to trip aliens)

The answer is... it takes like 5-7 seconds, yes this is not a thing you should be using for offense, more of defense.

CAN I RESTOCK THIS AT THE ARMORY? no you have to buy a new 1 that costs plasma.

WHAT IF I AM CRAZY GOOD AND I JUST KILLED 3 ONOSES, WHAT IF I HAVE 100 PLASMA AND I AM ABOUT TO mAKE 900000 MINES IN OUR BASE?

sorry but yes i thought this as well, i wish for a limit on each player of how many mines they have out placed and armed, i want a limit of 4 mines total out and armed on the field (which means you can be carrying one un-armed ready when the others explode a onos)

IM DRUNK AND I HAVE A MINI GUN, Im SHOOTING EVERYWHERE AND I AM THE HEAVY FROM TF2

Yes if the marines shoot the mines with either:

shotgun, rifle, mini gun, flamer, pistol and yes rifle butt+knife

it will EXPLODE but can this be used in tactics? see a alien cloak and then shoot a mine to hurt and reveal it? who knows but that idea already makes me want to play ns2 with land mines right away. Up to you guys and your deicision on having land mines DAMAGE or NOT DAMAGE fellow marines or yourself.

IF IM A MARINE AND I WALK PASS THE LASER MINE WILL I STILL HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS?

yes you will and i think that the laser will be able to detect that your a fellow marine and the colour santa red will not be your blood.

I JUST PUT A MINE ON THE FLOOR BLOCKING A DOOR (you) LOL NOW I CAN STOP IT CLOSING AND MAKE LIFE HARDER FOR MARINES AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH.

no as soon as the tram/elevator/moving object of the map/entity moves the mine will explode instantly, no greifing and no blocking at all, that was the big mistake from ns1 and its errors with the HL1 engine.

HEY I JUST SAW A MARINE PUT A MINE DOWN, THE LIGHT IS YELLOW AND GOING ORANGE, ITS NOT RED AND ARMED YET, SHOULD i GO BITE IT?

yes like in ns1 if the mine isnt armed yet if you hit it with your swipes/jaws/gorge spit/hydra spike shot/onos gore it will be desroyed BUT not explode.

COST OF PLASMA: this mine will cost a around about maybe half a shotgun's cost, up to you guys, you can decide and shape the cost of the land mine yourselves.

HEY I JUST SAW YOUR POST AND READ IT, IM GONNA SAY HOW RETARDED YOU AND YOUR IDEA IS AND HOW YOU SHOULD @^!@#!

Ok first of all please do the following:

Comment, as usual OR do something awesome and productive:

Say that its VERY good and say : YES PUT THIS IN ns2 TO DO LIST NOW

Say what is wrong/good about it and talk about it specificly

Say whats wrong and SUGGEST smething better/worse

Say what should be dealt with in the questions in the post. i asked about the land mine damaging the user and other fellow marines, decide on that AND decide on plasma cost to buy 1 of them.

ANYTHING is possible so you can argue as this isnt a communist country.

Thanks for hearing me out and 1 more thing.

please may this be implemented, i hate skulk rushers at the start of the game, if this gets in the game the enemy skulks that rush in and Camp the IP will sure get a real Blast*

Align · December 2010

Why did you take two pages to say "Please add the NS1 mine back, purchasable from the armory, toggleable between proximity and triplaser"?

I'm all for mines being back in though.

louis cardinal · December 2010

because writing alot (typing?) is healthy for the heart and the mind and soul.

And... thanks but you know... i didnt want it to be so general to say BRING THE ns1 MINES BACK IN PLeASE.

i wanted to be more specific and solves many of the problems that the ns1 mines had, like:

spamming them with high res\

using them to block or climb to places

And to specify that i wanted a alt fire laser option for th mines.

and i wanted the mines to be more clear and easily seen, only useful to catch rushing aliens that like to rush and chomp chomp away with no intellegence on hitting/tripping on a mine.

Overall yeah... awesome stuff and thanks for saying yes.

by the way, two pages? more like large text.

Bacillus · December 2010

I liked the mines in NS, especially how they gave gorge's bbomb a lot of extra value and because their maintenance still costs res. A lot more dynamic, creative and strategic defense option than NS1 turret if you ask me.

If mines get back into the game, I wouldn't mind some extra twists and turns, but I don't think the laser is the way to do it. It has been seen already in NS1 and in my opinion the laserless version allows more satisfying mix of trickery, strengths and weaknesses.

Maybe instead of changing the mines themselves too much, change the way the marines and aliens interact with them. NS1 had bbomb, spit, heavier lifeforms able to tank mines and heal up. Marines were able to direct aliens into mines and hide in mine fields. Maybe NS2 abilities have new ways to interact with the mines.

louis cardinal · December 2010

yes... i dont care about my idea specificly... just want the mines back in the game please >.<

woot... mines go go go!

Loey · December 2010

i liked putting laser mines on people, that was pretty funny.

ideas for mines
- possible primary initiation methods - pressure/proximity/trip detonation. pressure would be if you stepped on it. proximity would have sensors that detect a small radius around the mine and detonate when an alien comes into that radius. trip would be the old fashioned wire across a path, like web from ns1, hard to see but still visible. it can be setup further away from the mine eg just around the corner so a skulk would run into the killing ground
- secondary initiation is remote detonation by marine who placed it or by the comm who can detonate any mine
- instead of just an explosion, fragmentation funnel (like a claymore)
- comm/marine who placed mine can rotate it so the funnel faces a different way

thecowsaysmoo · December 2010

as an alien player I must add to this thread:

Mines are some of the stupidest ###### in the game, they take the least skill, and can be the most effective weapon in the marine armory. Any newb can drop a fricken mine, yet that 1 mine can keep the whole alien team from killing a certain structure, mines, and flamethrowers need to cost a lot of resources, so that people actually respect what they are dealing with. In ns1, you can just drop 20 mines all over a room and only spend VERY little resources, while those 20 mines might kill 200 resources worth of aliens......

louis cardinal · December 2010

thats the game, things counter things, mines counter aliens but gorge spit, lerk spikes and hydra spikes counter mines.

Understand the concept.

Example of what i stated makes me a genius? take a look:

Miniguns-onos

shotguns-fade

Yeah? everything in the game needs a counter, land mines are missing therefore IP camping is existant.

need land mines.

BadMouth · December 2010

I like the idea of mines again. If anything, it gives marines options. Whether to use turrets to defend the base or mines. Diversity is always good.

Bacillus · December 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BadMouth @ Dec 19 2010, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817296"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I like the idea of mines again. If anything, it gives marines options. Whether to use turrets to defend the base or mines. Diversity is always good.</div>
Yeah. Mines are surprisingly good in more offensive play too. It's nice to establish a position right next to the target by some quick mines. Even more so if the SG doesn't work as universally or compete on the exact same res costs.

All in all, I think the mines were a pretty brilliant solution for RTS styled defense. They make far better use of the FPS dynamics than any kind of basic turret system does.

louis cardinal · December 2010

exellent i believe we have in total 3 people for land mines in ns2...

i completely agree with you... besides its a very human thing to put a couple of mines here and there =)

Soylent_green · December 2010

Only if gorges get traps :-).

Perhaps a patch of ground that looks like a bit of alien goo, distinct from DI, which if you step on it has a bear-trap-like mouth snap shut on your leg; you can still shoot, but the only way to extricate yourself is to DPS it down. Or sporemines as the NS1 plugin. Or maybe a chamber that works like the barnacle from half-life.

They appear to require much less computation than hydras, being simply volumetric 'triggers' once fully deployed. Diverting gorge plasma from hydras should be good for server stability.

If you think about what a hydra has to do, at a minimum it has to do one ray collision test for each enemy player in range sorted nearest to farthest and stopping only if a target is found; and if no player is found do a ray collision test for each enemy structure in range sorted from nearest to farthest and stopping only if one is found. It has to do this enough times per second to be effective, perhaps 5 times per second when no player has been in LOS recently, and perhaps every tick when a player has "alerted" it and it is not waiting for the cooldown to expire before re-firing.

There's a lot of geometry to sift through for just a single LOS test if you don't have a precomputed Potentially Visible Set. As I understand it the world is organized into a number of big blocks of geometry; determining LOS probably looks like a bit like this: For each block the ray touches check every world geometry triangle for intersection with the ray from hydra to player; for each model possessing collision geometry, check if the ray interesects its bounding box; if the ray intersects a bounding box do a detailed check to see if the ray interesects the collision geometry. If at any point an intersection is found, return false; if all geometry is exhausted without finding a collision return true. There are some optimizations and clever tricks you might attempt. Since hydras are stationary, and so are enemy structures, you can rule out LOS with a single LOS test against stationary geometry, but for everything in LOS you still need to do a test against non-stationary geometry like MACs, doors, elevators and players. If you find a collision you don't need to continue, so therefor if you can guess geometry that is likely to generate a collision with the test ray with a high success rate you will reduce the work-load. One dead simple way to do this is to maintain a list of the last few models or triangles that caused a collision and try those first; since there are reasonable odds the player hasn't moved very far since last LOS check or has backtracked.

If you think about it bullet collision tests demand more effort per test. For these you not only care about whether or not you hit something, you care about what you hit. The reason this is worse is that just because you found a collision it does not mean you can stop; you have to continue checking for collisions until you have exhausted all potential collision geometry in order that you will be able to determine which object was the first to intersect your ray. The only real trick I can think of here is the vague sorting of geometry in accordance to which 'block' it is in. This allows you to check each block along the bullets path in turn and stop after a collision is found in a block after exhaustively checking all geometry in that block. You're essentially doing raytracing, probably without the hierarchical ordering of everything in the world required to do so as quickly as a real raytracer and without the ability of taking advantage of locality(no regular pattern of rays, with many rays in small bunches).

louis cardinal · December 2010

link: <a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/gorge_spore_mines_yes_or_no" target="_blank">http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/t...mines_yes_or_no</a>

i made the post above on the website of get satisfaction.

take a look.

Harimau · December 2010

<3 mines.

Underwhelmed · December 2010

I'm not even going to bother reading this ###### with like 4 different font sizes and underlining.

louis cardinal · December 2010

Well the underlining and fonts are just to help you pick up:

the ideas that i had for making the mines from ns1 less CHEAP and fair

the ideas that i had for making the mines from ns1 work proberly

and how much dmg etc setup time and damage+proximity ETC ETC.

that is all.

just keep supporting this mines!!! go go go

Harimau · December 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Underwhelmed @ Dec 20 2010, 12:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817423"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not even going to bother reading this ###### with like 4 different font sizes and underlining.</div>
Funny you say that actually, because I didn't, and it hadn't occurred to me to. Basically though. Do you agree that marines should get mines? Yes or no?

louis cardinal · December 2010

well i understand everyone here can be overwhelmed but really? its not like i wrote the 300 page lord of the rings book.

or do you hate(ed) your english class that much?

i was just getting into detail of everything, thats all guys.

just state whether you think mines are in or not and perhaps write a little more if you wish.

Kouji_San · December 2010

Mines protect IP's. Only if they have LAZORS they should go in :P

Harimau · December 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (louis cardinal @ Dec 21 2010, 12:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>well i understand everyone here can be overwhelmed but really? its not like i wrote the 300 page lord of the rings book.

or do you hate(ed) your english class that much?

i was just getting into detail of everything, thats all guys.

just state whether you think mines are in or not and perhaps write a little more if you wish.</div>
I laugh because my English is 100 times better than yours.

Readability is irrespective of language. (Of course, on an English-language forum, the language must be English for the sake of readability.)

The one thing you did right was that your thread title was straight to the point: it's clearly a suggestion for the (re-)introduction of landmines. And my response to that has been "<3 mines."

peregrinus · December 2010

I like the idea that individual marines can purchase extras like mines or grenades for themself. To balance that, the commander should be the one to bestow the flamethrower, grenade launcher, miniguns and heavy armour.

SgtBarlow · December 2010

Mines placable by MAC's has been on the feature list for some months and the dark research button for it was on the comm UI for quite some time before the UI got an overhaul.

louis cardinal · December 2010

well i must say this, im sorry but... thanks...

McGlaspie · December 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 21 2010, 12:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817709"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Mines protect IP's. Only if they have LAZORS they should go in :P</div>Exactly! Then we can cover a sentry in mines and watch the show! It'd be like a death disco! =P

Harimau · December 2010

Hell yeah!

louis cardinal · December 2010

i take it that you guys both agree on having mines... with laser capabilities? ;D?

BTW noticed in ns2 the MACs have an option not completed yet but they can place mines... mabye we have to think that only the MACs can place them and they are used by the commander =(

OR

we make it so that marines use them as an item.

what do you guys think?

is this for the robots or marines?

Price · December 2010

Not needed the MACs have mines, see in beta.

louis cardinal · December 2010

thats my POINT... its already THERE

but do you want that to keep as it is? or you want the marines to have the capabilities with mines? because MACs placing mines alone, already tells you that you can only place them on the "land" and cannot be placed in walls or in vents or on the ceiling.

and its probably just a proximity mine ^^ that explodes on touch... sorry onos =)...

Well what do you think?

Marine weapon: Land mine

Comments