I would have to agree with the OP. I remember playing NS1 and maybe it was the community back then but if I asked where is the hive or some other stupid question, I would either be kicked by the admin or berated by all the vets. I eventually figured it out, but I really had a bad taste in my mouth about the community from that point on.
The issue isnt a deep game play its defining a meaningful instruction to the player, and many of those elements are missing from this game. SC2 you have a single player campaign to introduce the mechanics of the game; sure it was inadequate to be good at the game in MP, but it still at least gave the player a place to start.
I am not saying that we need a SP game, cause that wont happen anyway; what I am saying is that there needs to be a means to test or learn the game in a safe environment. Packaging video tutorials would be a good start (or link to them on the steam page). Also, bots would go a long way to practicing. I know a lot of people would never touch them, but they do help the true "noob" especially if it was put together with a tutorial where it explains the commander roles, game play goals, resources, etc. which are a lot to throw at someone brand new without something.
<!--quoteo(post=1816752:date=Dec 17 2010, 11:16 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 17 2010, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1816752"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Offline tutorials <i>packaged</i> as single-player campaigns or challenges (See CoD, SC2) aren't boring though (potentially), and most people actually begin with the offline stuff first. No one wants to do tutorials or read a manual, so most people won't, but no one wants to get destroyed online either and that's where SP comes in. SP eases people in. So long as you tell a story, and it isn't someone holding your hand or teaching you, they'll go for it... People love to learn, but they hate to be taught.
Now, as for what kind of story you'd produce... don't try to break new ground. Keep the plot simple and straightforward. Essentially, just make the interactive version of an immersive, sci-fi, nothing-but-action flick. Something survival-based, maybe; feels less tacky than the other usual plots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't say it better.
A few single player missions would be immeasurably valuable for coddling complete newbies so they understand the game at least a little bit. I know this isn't Blizzard, so we can't roll out a 30 mission single player campaign with 10 minute cutscenes, voice acting through out the game, and an actual storyline to follow. NS2 is really about the online multiplayer. 3-5 missions just explaining the economy, the weapons, the lifeforms, the buildings, and commanding would be great. Less than 3 hours of missions would do the trick just fine.
Definitely agree on the story line. Make it simple, cheesy, cliche, no nonsense, straight forward. "Our base is under attack from aliens, set up defenses" or "Cleanse the intruders" should be adequate.
<!--quoteo(post=1816842:date=Dec 17 2010, 05:18 PM:name=Rahabib)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rahabib @ Dec 17 2010, 05:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1816842"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would have to agree with the OP. I remember playing NS1 and maybe it was the community back then but if I asked where is the hive or some other stupid question, I would either be kicked by the admin or berated by all the vets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol- posted today on a forum discussing NS2- seeing these type of posts everywhere- put far less delicately about how ###### being a noob is.
"Oh god, NS1 was a truly addicting game. Especially if you could play it with friends. Mav gave an excellent overview (NS is also one of the first FPSes I ever heard of to feature a mini-RPGish leveling-up mechanic in-game for players).
Nowadays the community is kind of, uh, hardcore, where if you don't know what you're doing you'll probably get insta-kicked from the server. Hopefully this will allow some new blood to enter in less painfully."
<!--quoteo(post=1816870:date=Dec 18 2010, 09:21 AM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Dec 18 2010, 09:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1816870"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Couldn't say it better.
A few single player missions would be immeasurably valuable for coddling complete newbies so they understand the game at least a little bit. I know this isn't Blizzard, so we can't roll out a 30 mission single player campaign with 10 minute cutscenes, voice acting through out the game, and an actual storyline to follow. NS2 is really about the online multiplayer. 3-5 missions just explaining the economy, the weapons, the lifeforms, the buildings, and commanding would be great. Less than 3 hours of missions would do the trick just fine.
Definitely agree on the story line. Make it simple, cheesy, cliche, no nonsense, straight forward. "Our base is under attack from aliens, set up defenses" or "Cleanse the intruders" should be adequate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah don't make it a novel, for sure. Make it an hour-and-a-half blockbuster film. That's the minimalist approach, and the appropriate one for the franchise, I think.
I suggest that in addition to a short <i>cinematic</i> single-player campaign, we should also have "Challenges" which will actually serve as avenues for people to practice certain essential skills. Swarms of (bot) skulks, for you to practice your aim. Skulk wall-running (skulk time trial racing). Some stealth-style game (think MGS and splinter cell, but with aliens...), focusing on sneaky movement and ambushing - this could be part of the alien SP campaign though. Etc.
Alternatively, you could combine the two, so you'd have to do less work. Have the SP campaign(s) [1 for marines, 1 for aliens] a series of maps (or rather, 'scenes'), but upon completion, it opens up the challenges, which are essentially the exact same scenes minus the plot, but with greater length/depth, increasing difficulty and/or scores recorded. So you'd have to include every challenge you wanted to in the single player campaign already, then make small modifications to add the practice/challenge aspect.
<!--quoteo(post=1816904:date=Dec 17 2010, 10:59 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 17 2010, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1816904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah don't make it a novel, for sure. Make it an hour-and-a-half blockbuster film. That's the minimalist approach, and the appropriate one for the franchise, I think.
I suggest that in addition to a short <i>cinematic</i> single-player campaign, we should also have "Challenges" which will actually serve as avenues for people to practice certain essential skills. Swarms of (bot) skulks, for you to practice your aim. Skulk wall-running (skulk time trial racing). Some stealth-style game (think MGS and splinter cell, but with aliens...), focusing on sneaky movement and ambushing - this could be part of the alien SP campaign though. Etc.
Alternatively, you could combine the two, so you'd have to do less work. Have the SP campaign(s) [1 for marines, 1 for aliens] a series of maps (or rather, 'scenes'), but upon completion, it opens up the challenges, which are essentially the exact same scenes minus the plot, but with greater length/depth, increasing difficulty and/or scores recorded. So you'd have to include every challenge you wanted to in the single player campaign already, then make small modifications to add the practice/challenge aspect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Completely agree once again.
Heres an idea... spawn points can only be placed on the edges of a map or from somewhere where it SEEMS like players don't just 'appear' or 'teleport' but they come in from reinforcing ships or through a hall.
At the moment I'm assuming that player's just... 'teleport' in rather than reinforcing in.
there should be a way that you can tell the engine that certain parts of a map are not spawnable. spawn in the red areas only not the green. shouldnt be that hard
<!--quoteo(post=1817016:date=Dec 18 2010, 03:22 PM:name=intellix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (intellix @ Dec 18 2010, 03:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817016"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heres an idea... spawn points can only be placed on the edges of a map or from somewhere where it SEEMS like players don't just 'appear' or 'teleport' but they come in from reinforcing ships or through a hall.
At the moment I'm assuming that player's just... 'teleport' in rather than reinforcing in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines transport in via infantry portals. Aliens hatch. It's really quite clear and simple.
<!--quoteo(post=1817040:date=Dec 18 2010, 06:03 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 18 2010, 06:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->there should be a way that you can tell the engine that certain parts of a map are not spawnable. spawn in the red areas only not the green. shouldnt be that hard<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That would still require mapper interaction though? So not hugely different from placing the spawn points manually.
When I started years ago, I had some trouble with the learning curve for NS. I found my niche as a gorge and did pretty well. I wouldn’t com because I couldn’t get enough experience to become competent. One day I found a server that had all bots on one team and players on the other. This is where I learned to com. I would go on the server when it was empty and do everything by myself. It was a great teacher. Soon I found a lot of inexperienced players were using it for training. If NS2 had good bots for a single player option like CS and a training tutorial similar to half life I think a lot of new players would be attracted to the game.
I loved playing NS, but when introducing my friends they were harassed by experienced players for not playing the 'correct' way. These were often minor things like dropping a few offensive chambers in a double res node room. Even if you think there's a better way they could spend their time, don't be mean about it. At least appreciate when they're trying to be helpful.
We need to make sure to create and maintain a friendly community. Better UIs and tutorials are GREAT, but a hardcore community that blames new players for losses (common in multiplayer games that rely on teamwork) can undermine that work. It's inevitable that people will get upset like that, but you can do your part. Help others, be nice, and vocally defend new players from harassment. =)
<!--quoteo(post=1816872:date=Dec 17 2010, 08:24 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 17 2010, 08:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1816872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->complete and utter lie.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well several other posters had similar experience so don't bury your head in the sand. It didn't happen just once on one server, but on several servers (not just kicking but the complaining). My post wasn't to put down the NS community - otherwise, why would I be posting? But rather to say there needs to be some kind of training, because "on the job training" is frustrating to everyone; from the hardcore person trying to get his team to gel and to the noob who honestly has a hard time understanding how team work is supposed to work.
bots would work, not sure if that could happen by time the game launches - but maybe afterwards. Training videos would be ok as long as they are extensive and linked in the steam menu (as the easiest option - but some people will probably not notice them if they are not prompted on first load of the game or something.) SP would really be the best option but that would basically require making a new game and this game already is more of a MP only concept.
<!--quoteo(post=1817572:date=Dec 20 2010, 11:03 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Dec 20 2010, 11:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817572"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->VeNeM was never a noob, didn't you know?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ive been playing since ns came out and never have I once seen a noob kicked for asking too many questions. thats always the case when someone wants to make it seem like they were attacked unfairly. but of course he has no proof, nothing to back up what he says and we are just supposed to accept it right? most ns servers are/were tolerant of new players, its the playing with vets that discourages new players because the skill diff is so much by now. the only time noobs get a hard time in ns is when they jump in the chair, and even then some get the chance to at least learn a little. getting kicked from the com chair isnt the same as getting kicked banned. you honestly believe this kid was just getting picked on by admins? or that he was kicked out of the com chair 1 or 2 times. hell on most ns servers it takes an act of god to get kicked banned. so at least be honest instead of using that old excuse...
and yea i can understand how an alien team would get upset at a new player, when they drop an oc on an empty res node for example. but theres a huge leap between that and getting kicked-banned still. plus im pretty sure said player would know how to drop a res node after that. on top of all that, some people are still going to be mean to new players. its up to admins to either ignore or do ssomething about said player.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I think part of the problem may be that the overall objective isn't clear. In a game like TF2, objectives in say a ctf map are obvious, there are flags and you need to capture them. The same can't be said for NS2. At the very least, there should be some onscreen text that says 'Find and destroy the enemy hives' if you join the marine side and vice versa.
I believe a small singleplayer campaign would be awesome, it could explain the basics at least for marines. Something with lots of scripts (how hard is something to do like this in lua?)
Can't be that hard to make something like an "auto commander" who would issue waypoints/buildings and stuff in a singleplayer game. Hell with some voice talent from the community we even could make it somewhat cinematic ;)
For the fun of it make holo models of the aliens and their buildings, can't be that hard (just changing them all to the same texture?) Nothing fancy just basic bots like many NS servers use that are still around, who made those things anyway?
Things like a short introduction video (like in TF2) would be awesome for new players.
I'm also pretty new (played NS1 back then, but only for a relatively short time). I'm here since yesterday and had really no idea what I had to do. I just remembered the different aliens actually. I still won''t sit in a commander seat, but I already know 1 map perfectly and know pretty much what to do. If you didn't notice: there are tooltips (dynamic!). When I point my crosshair next to a power node, it tells me what it is for. If it's destroyed, it tells me that. This already helped a lot (okay, bad example - I didn't need help to notice that the power node is destroyed ;) ).
Things like minimap (or at least a fullscreen map) to orient yourself will come. The interface will -obviously- also get optimized. So I don't quite understand some of your points, considering it's an early beta. I'm pretty sure the devs have other things on their mind than tutorials right now. A good tutorial and maybe some kind of wiki in the main menu would already be very helpful for new players later on.
At the moment, the biggest issue I have as a brand new player is orientation, so I'm really hoping a minimap or something similar will be implemented soon.
<!--quoteo(post=1817594:date=Dec 20 2010, 12:54 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Dec 20 2010, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817594"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think part of the problem may be that the overall objective isn't clear. In a game like TF2, objectives in say a ctf map are obvious, there are flags and you need to capture them. The same can't be said for NS2. At the very least, there should be some onscreen text that says 'Find and destroy the enemy hives' if you join the marine side and vice versa.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you cant compare a tf2 map (where everything is linear) to a map like ns with multiple paths, hiding places, etc. again, for the umpteenth time, thats why the commander can see the overhead map (you know.. that guy youre supposed to be taking orders from). the objectives are perfectly clear in both games though, so I have no idea what youre talking about.
1. find and bring flag back to your flag 2. find and destroy aliens/hive
there are some deviations toward the endgame of both games but both arent that simple to understand.
both games emphasize map control as well.
tf2 doesnt explain where, why and how to do everything either you know. some parts of tf2 assumes youve played tf before. the engineer for example. the pyro's alt attack for another example. soldier rocket jump. capturing points on capture maps. sniper movement, etc etc etc
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1817594:date=Dec 20 2010, 07:54 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Dec 20 2010, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817594"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think part of the problem may be that the overall objective isn't clear. In a game like TF2, objectives in say a ctf map are obvious, there are flags and you need to capture them. The same can't be said for NS2. At the very least, there should be some onscreen text that says 'Find and destroy the enemy hives' if you join the marine side and vice versa.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> OH is that what you're supposed to do, I usually hang around engineers and harassing them with a demo or a spah. I just can't see myself running over, getting some silly object, then running all the way back, rinse and repeat :P
<!--quoteo(post=1817586:date=Dec 20 2010, 02:04 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 20 2010, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ive been playing since ns came out and never have I once seen a noob kicked for asking too many questions. thats always the case when someone wants to make it seem like they were attacked unfairly. but of course he has no proof, nothing to back up what he says and we are just supposed to accept it right? most ns servers are/were tolerant of new players, its the playing with vets that discourages new players because the skill diff is so much by now. the only time noobs get a hard time in ns is when they jump in the chair, and even then some get the chance to at least learn a little. getting kicked from the com chair isnt the same as getting kicked banned. you honestly believe this kid was just getting picked on by admins? or that he was kicked out of the com chair 1 or 2 times. hell on most ns servers it takes an act of god to get kicked banned. so at least be honest instead of using that old excuse...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1817604:date=Dec 20 2010, 01:30 PM:name=Rahabib)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rahabib @ Dec 20 2010, 01:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1817604"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you are right VeNem, I made it up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
tutorial mode: (depends which he selects marine or alien)
he can watch video 1. start with basic information 2. explaining in detail 3. showing examples - objectives
you get the idea. This might be easier to do than making the developers make single player mode.
lastly, you can have tutorial gaming tips which should give small tooltips of objects in the game for players. this option can be turned off in the settings, but by default its turned on - to help new players in-game.
this is honestly simple, and effective ways many games usually deal with new players, aside from making single player tutorial game.
Comments
The issue isnt a deep game play its defining a meaningful instruction to the player, and many of those elements are missing from this game. SC2 you have a single player campaign to introduce the mechanics of the game; sure it was inadequate to be good at the game in MP, but it still at least gave the player a place to start.
I am not saying that we need a SP game, cause that wont happen anyway; what I am saying is that there needs to be a means to test or learn the game in a safe environment. Packaging video tutorials would be a good start (or link to them on the steam page). Also, bots would go a long way to practicing. I know a lot of people would never touch them, but they do help the true "noob" especially if it was put together with a tutorial where it explains the commander roles, game play goals, resources, etc. which are a lot to throw at someone brand new without something.
People love to learn, but they hate to be taught.
Now, as for what kind of story you'd produce... don't try to break new ground. Keep the plot simple and straightforward. Essentially, just make the interactive version of an immersive, sci-fi, nothing-but-action flick. Something survival-based, maybe; feels less tacky than the other usual plots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't say it better.
A few single player missions would be immeasurably valuable for coddling complete newbies so they understand the game at least a little bit. I know this isn't Blizzard, so we can't roll out a 30 mission single player campaign with 10 minute cutscenes, voice acting through out the game, and an actual storyline to follow. NS2 is really about the online multiplayer. 3-5 missions just explaining the economy, the weapons, the lifeforms, the buildings, and commanding would be great. Less than 3 hours of missions would do the trick just fine.
Definitely agree on the story line. Make it simple, cheesy, cliche, no nonsense, straight forward. "Our base is under attack from aliens, set up defenses" or "Cleanse the intruders" should be adequate.
complete and utter lie.
"Oh god, NS1 was a truly addicting game. Especially if you could play it with friends. Mav gave an excellent overview (NS is also one of the first FPSes I ever heard of to feature a mini-RPGish leveling-up mechanic in-game for players).
Nowadays the community is kind of, uh, hardcore, where if you don't know what you're doing you'll probably get insta-kicked from the server. Hopefully this will allow some new blood to enter in less painfully."
<a href="http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132085" target="_blank">http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132085</a>
A few single player missions would be immeasurably valuable for coddling complete newbies so they understand the game at least a little bit. I know this isn't Blizzard, so we can't roll out a 30 mission single player campaign with 10 minute cutscenes, voice acting through out the game, and an actual storyline to follow. NS2 is really about the online multiplayer. 3-5 missions just explaining the economy, the weapons, the lifeforms, the buildings, and commanding would be great. Less than 3 hours of missions would do the trick just fine.
Definitely agree on the story line. Make it simple, cheesy, cliche, no nonsense, straight forward. "Our base is under attack from aliens, set up defenses" or "Cleanse the intruders" should be adequate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah don't make it a novel, for sure. Make it an hour-and-a-half blockbuster film. That's the minimalist approach, and the appropriate one for the franchise, I think.
I suggest that in addition to a short <i>cinematic</i> single-player campaign, we should also have "Challenges" which will actually serve as avenues for people to practice certain essential skills. Swarms of (bot) skulks, for you to practice your aim. Skulk wall-running (skulk time trial racing). Some stealth-style game (think MGS and splinter cell, but with aliens...), focusing on sneaky movement and ambushing - this could be part of the alien SP campaign though. Etc.
Alternatively, you could combine the two, so you'd have to do less work. Have the SP campaign(s) [1 for marines, 1 for aliens] a series of maps (or rather, 'scenes'), but upon completion, it opens up the challenges, which are essentially the exact same scenes minus the plot, but with greater length/depth, increasing difficulty and/or scores recorded. So you'd have to include every challenge you wanted to in the single player campaign already, then make small modifications to add the practice/challenge aspect.
I suggest that in addition to a short <i>cinematic</i> single-player campaign, we should also have "Challenges" which will actually serve as avenues for people to practice certain essential skills. Swarms of (bot) skulks, for you to practice your aim. Skulk wall-running (skulk time trial racing). Some stealth-style game (think MGS and splinter cell, but with aliens...), focusing on sneaky movement and ambushing - this could be part of the alien SP campaign though. Etc.
Alternatively, you could combine the two, so you'd have to do less work. Have the SP campaign(s) [1 for marines, 1 for aliens] a series of maps (or rather, 'scenes'), but upon completion, it opens up the challenges, which are essentially the exact same scenes minus the plot, but with greater length/depth, increasing difficulty and/or scores recorded. So you'd have to include every challenge you wanted to in the single player campaign already, then make small modifications to add the practice/challenge aspect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Completely agree once again.
At the moment I'm assuming that player's just... 'teleport' in rather than reinforcing in.
At the moment I'm assuming that player's just... 'teleport' in rather than reinforcing in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines transport in via infantry portals. Aliens hatch. It's really quite clear and simple.
That would still require mapper interaction though? So not hugely different from placing the spawn points manually.
I loved playing NS, but when introducing my friends they were harassed by experienced players for not playing the 'correct' way. These were often minor things like dropping a few offensive chambers in a double res node room. Even if you think there's a better way they could spend their time, don't be mean about it. At least appreciate when they're trying to be helpful.
We need to make sure to create and maintain a friendly community. Better UIs and tutorials are GREAT, but a hardcore community that blames new players for losses (common in multiplayer games that rely on teamwork) can undermine that work. It's inevitable that people will get upset like that, but you can do your part. Help others, be nice, and vocally defend new players from harassment. =)
experience caps on hopping into com
and that sort of thing
would help
well several other posters had similar experience so don't bury your head in the sand. It didn't happen just once on one server, but on several servers (not just kicking but the complaining). My post wasn't to put down the NS community - otherwise, why would I be posting? But rather to say there needs to be some kind of training, because "on the job training" is frustrating to everyone; from the hardcore person trying to get his team to gel and to the noob who honestly has a hard time understanding how team work is supposed to work.
bots would work, not sure if that could happen by time the game launches - but maybe afterwards.
Training videos would be ok as long as they are extensive and linked in the steam menu (as the easiest option - but some people will probably not notice them if they are not prompted on first load of the game or something.)
SP would really be the best option but that would basically require making a new game and this game already is more of a MP only concept.
ive been playing since ns came out and never have I once seen a noob kicked for asking too many questions.
thats always the case when someone wants to make it seem like they were attacked unfairly. but of course he has no proof, nothing to back up what he says and we are just supposed to accept it right? most ns servers are/were tolerant of new players, its the playing with vets that discourages new players because the skill diff is so much by now. the only time noobs get a hard time in ns is when they jump in the chair, and even then some get the chance to at least learn a little. getting kicked from the com chair isnt the same as getting kicked banned. you honestly believe this kid was just getting picked on by admins? or that he was kicked out of the com chair 1 or 2 times. hell on most ns servers it takes an act of god to get kicked banned. so at least be honest instead of using that old excuse...
Something with lots of scripts (how hard is something to do like this in lua?)
Can't be that hard to make something like an "auto commander" who would issue waypoints/buildings and stuff in a singleplayer game.
Hell with some voice talent from the community we even could make it somewhat cinematic ;)
For the fun of it make holo models of the aliens and their buildings, can't be that hard (just changing them all to the same texture?)
Nothing fancy just basic bots like many NS servers use that are still around, who made those things anyway?
I'm also pretty new (played NS1 back then, but only for a relatively short time). I'm here since yesterday and had really no idea what I had to do. I just remembered the different aliens actually.
I still won''t sit in a commander seat, but I already know 1 map perfectly and know pretty much what to do. If you didn't notice: there are tooltips (dynamic!). When I point my crosshair next to a power node, it tells me what it is for. If it's destroyed, it tells me that.
This already helped a lot (okay, bad example - I didn't need help to notice that the power node is destroyed ;) ).
Things like minimap (or at least a fullscreen map) to orient yourself will come. The interface will -obviously- also get optimized. So I don't quite understand some of your points, considering it's an early beta. I'm pretty sure the devs have other things on their mind than tutorials right now. A good tutorial and maybe some kind of wiki in the main menu would already be very helpful for new players later on.
At the moment, the biggest issue I have as a brand new player is orientation, so I'm really hoping a minimap or something similar will be implemented soon.
you cant compare a tf2 map (where everything is linear) to a map like ns with multiple paths, hiding places, etc. again, for the umpteenth time, thats why the commander can see the overhead map (you know.. that guy youre supposed to be taking orders from). the objectives are perfectly clear in both games though, so I have no idea what youre talking about.
1. find and bring flag back to your flag
2. find and destroy aliens/hive
there are some deviations toward the endgame of both games but both arent that simple to understand.
both games emphasize map control as well.
tf2 doesnt explain where, why and how to do everything either you know. some parts of tf2 assumes youve played tf before. the engineer for example. the pyro's alt attack for another example. soldier rocket jump. capturing points on capture maps. sniper movement, etc etc etc
OH is that what you're supposed to do, I usually hang around engineers and harassing them with a demo or a spah. I just can't see myself running over, getting some silly object, then running all the way back, rinse and repeat :P
thats always the case when someone wants to make it seem like they were attacked unfairly. but of course he has no proof, nothing to back up what he says and we are just supposed to accept it right? most ns servers are/were tolerant of new players, its the playing with vets that discourages new players because the skill diff is so much by now. the only time noobs get a hard time in ns is when they jump in the chair, and even then some get the chance to at least learn a little. getting kicked from the com chair isnt the same as getting kicked banned. you honestly believe this kid was just getting picked on by admins? or that he was kicked out of the com chair 1 or 2 times. hell on most ns servers it takes an act of god to get kicked banned. so at least be honest instead of using that old excuse...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are right VeNem, I made it up.
glad we agree one something :)
/pokes the cinders to burn more effectively
/walks off to get his anti-flame suit
/pokes the cinders to burn more effectively
/walks off to get his anti-flame suit<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
right *here* :D
tutorial mode: (depends which he selects marine or alien)
he can watch video
1. start with basic information
2. explaining in detail
3. showing examples - objectives
you get the idea. This might be easier to do than making the developers make single player mode.
lastly, you can have tutorial gaming tips which should give small tooltips of objects in the game for players.
this option can be turned off in the settings, but by default its turned on - to help new players in-game.
this is honestly simple, and effective ways many games usually deal with new players, aside from making single player tutorial game.
/pokes the cinders to burn more effectively
/walks off to get his anti-flame suit<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ever hopped from random Classic NS server to random classic NS server?
That's right... because there are so few left because it takes a massive effort and amount of team play in a public domain.
/walks off wearing his anti-flame suit
:p