i call bullcrap

last_ · December 2010

<div class="IPBDescription">vertices</div>i call total bullcrap on the editor preserving exact vertice coordinates of complex geometery as well as ordinary geometery. snap is on. while cloning geometery the polygon or face or whatever you want to call it does absolutely not stay the same. i find myself constantly going back to fix the same thing i just fixed an hour ago or after i save and close the editor, more like it crashes on me but whatevs.

and yes, i am building all of the faces away from any other geometery so that it does not get tied to existing faces.

all i am doing is building a small ready room to familiarize myself with the editor.. and i just cant seem to get anything squared up at all !! how in the heck you guys make whole levels without blowing all your fuses is really beyond me.

under normal circumstance i would completely uninstall the game due to the amount of frustration it is causing me. this is ns2 though, and i wont allow myself to do that.

not really asking for help here just ranting. i know other people out there have/are experiencing the same thing.

thanks for reading,
last_

UKchaos · December 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>while cloning geometery the polygon or face or whatever you want to call it does absolutely not stay the same</div>

In what way does it change?

If geometry becomes misaligned from the grid after cloning or moving its usually because the editor is trying to lock the exact centre of the selection to the grid. To avoid this happening you can use "Move Origin Cycle" to put the selection handle onto one of the corners before moving.

"Refine Grid" and "Coarsen Grid" are also useful commands that you want at your fingertips.

chubbysteve · December 2010

I have not experienced that problem... yet? Alls I know is how lovely it would be if geometry wouldn't weld when made next to other geometry. Ever. It's counter intuitive that you have to go to an empty space to make a new plane, then move it into the intended location.

Insane · December 2010

It's not entirely clear what your problem is. Are you talking about a problem that happens when you clone geometry, or something happening to your geometry when you close and re-open the editor?

Mendasp · December 2010

Maybe he's talking about misaligned vertices?

SN.Wolf · December 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chubbysteve @ Dec 6 2010, 05:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813841"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Alls I know is how lovely it would be if geometry wouldn't weld when made next to other geometry. Ever. It's counter intuitive that you have to go to an empty space to make a new plane, then move it into the intended location.</div>

This has been painful but, if they auto weld it will help with the occlusion culling from small gaps that may be missed my the level builder. An option to auto weld would be perfect.

<i>Back on topic:</i>

I do believe what Menasp may be correct on that. This has been an ugly issue with many but, there are an abundance of props to make those transitions much easier like using door frames or floor mods.

When all else fails, drop a prop in there or spend another 5 minutes adjusting at close range.

last_ · December 2010

What I mean, in short, is exactly what I said... However move origin helped expedite re-edit of geometery. It seems the individual vertices of the face very much have a mind of there own. They are emmediatly out of square to the grid right after I snap them to the grid.... I dont really know how else to say it. I included a picture but it wont do much good on making my point.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/56787761@N06/5240472924/" title="damnit1 by joel_corey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5240472924_26c5dafd11.jpg" width="500" height="269" alt="damnit1" /></a>

last_ · December 2010

okay... so i just suck all around and can not get this message board to display the damn pic... lame sauce.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/56787761@N06/5240472924/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5240472924_26c5dafd11.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

...maybe ....

UKchaos · December 2010

So you move the faces into the correct position but when you let go they spring back out of alignment?

Thats my best guess at what you are trying to describe...

Kouji_San · December 2010

If you move multiple faces simultaneously you get the "average" center as origin, which might indeed push a lot of vertexes off grid.

What you have to do in this case is cycle trough the origin options to get an origin on the side and on grid. When you have the move tool selected you go to the menu:

Edit->Move Origin Cycle (Previous)

or

Edit->Move Origin Cycle (Next)

pSyk0mAn · December 2010

Still, make sure you don't recycle too much geometry.
Too much flipping, transforming and even extruding causes floatcomma vertices where none should be.
That's what I call bullcrap.

last_ · December 2010

i was moving a lot of faces at once which would explain the vertices bein all messed up. so from now on i will not do this... this level im making is getting scrapped. it was only a small ready room anyway and i think i have moved stuff around so much that there is just no saving it and getting the faces to all be truly square. the move origin cycle was probly the most helpful tip i have gotten so far.

thanks for the response from all, it is encouraging to get support because some of the simplest things seem to be the most frustrating !!

have a good one!

Thaldarin · December 2010

Multiple face origins will mis-align vertices and edges of faces.

My tip: Do it one at a time.

last_ · December 2010

I started over, building almost everything away from other geometery and using shift+move clone as little as possible and only for extremely simple things like rectangles or squares that occupy only two dimensions. all 3d planes will be hand made... included a pic for anyone who wants to look.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/56787761@N06/5242711298/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5241/5242711298_251217041d.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

and so far nothing is out of square, hmmmm... so it pays to go really slowly with spark editor. mental note.

Insane · December 2010

By making good use of the move origin tool and making the grid more refined, you should be able to clone relatively complex geometry and keep it on the grid. I think it's just a matter of finding a technique that suits you - as you get more confident with the tool you'll be able to move faster.

The things you need to watch out for are cloning and then rotating, or cloning props and geometry together. Rotating always happens around the origin, so you'll have to check that this hasn't knocked your geometry off the grid. Use flip instead where possible, to preserve its place on the grid. Props being more complex don't always sit neatly on the grid, so clone these separately from geometry.

i call bullcrap

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