oh FFS! in the devolped world good broadband is not a luxury - it's a right! i've never even heard about data caps, unless the talk is about mobile (3G) broadband.
for ~40€/month i have 100/100 LAN connection at home with insanely low ping, 5 dedicated IP's and NO CAPS WHATSOEVER! sure that's a bit luxury, but it's pretty usual in the cities. the standard is at 10/10 Mbps, and has been for several years. (come to think of it, it should have increased...)
get a real ISP, or move to a well connected country, but DON'T expect the world to adapt to specifically YOUR needs because you whine about it.
<!--quoteo(post=1812952:date=Dec 3 2010, 12:28 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Dec 3 2010, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812952"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just out of curiosity who is your ISP and have you got a link to their packages?
3GB sounds standard for "a cheap option for old people who don't use the internet". Sounds like you've chosen that rather than the "I want to download music/movies and play games" option and payment amount for your ISP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The AUS ISPs kinda have a death grip on the country. They all have really nasty bandwidth caps and even plans with like small caps are really expensive.
<!--quoteo(post=1813033:date=Dec 3 2010, 09:29 PM:name=alphz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alphz @ Dec 3 2010, 09:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813033"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mind sending me a copy too? It seems 700mb is a big ask for the NZ broadband which is chugging along at the incredible speed of 100 kB/s.
I'm going to be shafted if they release another optimisation fix of a similar size today as they are hoping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not going to be shafted. Whining about file and patch size isn't going to help, especially during the pre-game release process when nothing an be done about it, take the raw update as a privelage.
100kb/s of 700MB is roughly 2 hours to download? It's not that much of a hardship.
And Karrde it still doesn't answer my question, as I full well know Scythe is Australian and does not have that sort of extreme situation forced upon him.
<!--quoteo(post=1813013:date=Dec 3 2010, 02:36 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 3 2010, 02:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813013"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Someone should help him out, put the patch on a DVD and mail it to the poor sod.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really possible for Steam updates?
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I'd actually turn off automatic updates for NS2 and wait a few days after each release. Then based on the videos/forums posts, decide if you want to download the update.
Also, each week I'd send a letter to the government telling them about your ###### ISP and that they should invest in some broadband there.
<!--quoteo(post=1813043:date=Dec 3 2010, 09:56 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Dec 3 2010, 09:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're not going to be shafted. Whining about file and patch size isn't going to help, especially during the pre-game release process when nothing an be done about it, take the raw update as a privelage.
100kb/s of 700MB is roughly 2 hours to download? It's not that much of a hardship.
And Karrde it still doesn't answer my question, as I full well know Scythe is Australian and does not have that sort of extreme situation forced upon him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha chill dude I was making a joke in reference to the mail idea.
As for spending 4 hours to download and redownload the game not being a hardship I agree. However, If I wanted to actually play the game today or even tomorrow (being my weekend with other things to do) its probably not going to happen -> hence, shafted.
Meh, I will play it later but I would appreciate you jumpin off the high horse of yours as I doubt you even comprehend the 'hardship' endured on this side with the pretty rubbish ISP's in Australia and NZ (until recently, and still to a certain extent we (NZ) have actually only had ONE ISP).
<!--quoteo(post=1813056:date=Dec 3 2010, 04:14 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Dec 3 2010, 04:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd actually turn off automatic updates for NS2 and wait a few days after each release. Then based on the videos/forums posts, decide if you want to download the update.
Also, each week I'd send a letter to the government telling them about your ###### ISP and that they should invest in some broadband there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cept you won't be able to play on any servers with out the update.
- 1MB of the patch was actual game mechanic files (aka lua) - 10MB level files - 530 MB audio file update (The audio files are all in archives so you have to swap the whole archives) - remainder ~200MB: model and texture updates
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->530 MB audio file update (The audio files are all in archives so you have to swap the whole archives)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/facepalm
(Thanks for taking the time to find that out Sorcerer)
but the reason Australia charges so much for internet is because the lines need to be run through the ocean. and every time you download something other isps charge your isp.
<!--quoteo(post=1812983:date=Dec 4 2010, 06:19 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Dec 4 2010, 06:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812983"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->oh FFS! in the devolped world good broadband is not a luxury - it's a right! i've never even heard about data caps, unless the talk is about mobile (3G) broadband.
for ~40€/month i have 100/100 LAN connection at home with insanely low ping, 5 dedicated IP's and NO CAPS WHATSOEVER! sure that's a bit luxury, but it's pretty usual in the cities. the standard is at 10/10 Mbps, and has been for several years. (come to think of it, it should have increased...)
get a real ISP, or move to a well connected country, but DON'T expect the world to adapt to specifically YOUR needs because you whine about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> no id say its definately a luxury. if what you had was available to australians, then hte majority of us would have those plans. have you ever heard of someone who moved to another country because their internet was too slow?
<!--quoteo(post=1813263:date=Dec 4 2010, 09:57 AM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Dec 4 2010, 09:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813263"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->no id say its definately a luxury. if what you had was available to australians, then hte majority of us would have those plans. have you ever heard of someone who moved to another country because their internet was too slow?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> they are not even called "plans", but "services". cos there's nothing TO plan, not like it's a mortgage plan. you decide on speed, then you check the price for that service. i could choose this LAN one, or a TV-cable one ~50/10 Mbps, avg ping, 1 ip, ~€30/month.
in sweden it was a POLITICAL call to get good internet infrastructure, so there needs to be pressure on those politicians in Aus. that, or the existing companies need competition.
they are called plans here. not every country is as lucky as sweden to have good internet deals and most people in aus are more concerned about other issues than having massive download quotas so theres not enough pressure for better services
Would be nice to see a UWE comment on these patch sizes and if we're always going to have to download a 530MB sound archive each time 1 bit of data changes in it or if there will be, at some time, intelligent patching.
<!--quoteo(post=1812787:date=Dec 3 2010, 12:36 AM:name=WhiteZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteZero @ Dec 3 2010, 12:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1812787"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm guessing that right now UWE has to replace entire files during updates, rather than just "patching" code inside of existing files. So you have to re-download entire assets.
This is probably why the patches are so big.
Other than that, each patch is introducing huge changes. As time goes on, they should get progressively smaller.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I advise everyone to take note of this post, this man knows what he's talking about. They are probably replacing files rather then patching. It's easier to do, and it's fast, if a little bit larger.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's the nature of modern games unfortunately. I feel UWE don't have to answer to anyone about the size of their patches.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah well we can tell your not effected by this issue, so why dont you go and put your head up your ass somewhere else?
The wow Cataclism expansion is also available in DVD/CD from the local games retailer. It's also a once off patch of that size and in no way can be compared to NS2 patches.
Wow for example, has a MPQ archive that allows them to update files within that archive without players having to download the entire thing. This is usually waht makes wow patches quite small, despite the massive changes they make to art and sound.
You might want to do some research before you post next time eh? Or on second though, dont post at all.
Calling Australia underdeveloped is just down right ignorant. We are a very well developed country, we are only behind in our internet services and can only get a max of 24mbit in the best of situations here. I am on a 24mbit plan (17mbit sync) and I quite honestly don't see how faster internet would be helpful.
However, our government did just green light a national fibre optic broadband network, so within 5 years, in theory each household will achieve as much as 100mbit.
<!--quoteo(post=1813517:date=Dec 5 2010, 04:14 PM:name=scorpydude)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scorpydude @ Dec 5 2010, 04:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813517"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah well we can tell your not effected by this issue, so why dont you go and put your head up your ass somewhere else?
The wow Cataclism expansion is also available in DVD/CD from the local games retailer. It's also a once off patch of that size and in no way can be compared to NS2 patches.
Wow for example, has a MPQ archive that allows them to update files within that archive without players having to download the entire thing. This is usually waht makes wow patches quite small, despite the massive changes they make to art and sound.
You might want to do some research before you post next time eh? Or on second though, dont post at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeeaahh... comparing the $5,000,000,000 of net profit Blizzard make each year to an indie studio is totally logical.
I'm sorry you have bad internet, but you're a drop in the ocean. To introduce a method similar to what you described would take effort and time the devs can't afford. 99.5% of people have internet connections that can easily handle 700mb patches.
This is like going to McDonalds and whinging they don't make a certain burger, because you're the only one in the world that wants it.
<!--quoteo(post=1813524:date=Dec 5 2010, 08:32 AM:name=xposed-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xposed- @ Dec 5 2010, 08:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813524"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Calling Australia underdeveloped is just down right ignorant. We are a very well developed country, we are only behind in our internet services and can only get a max of 24mbit in the best of situations here. I am on a 24mbit plan (17mbit sync) and I quite honestly don't see how faster internet would be helpful.
However, our government did just green light a national fibre optic broadband network, so within 5 years, in theory each household will achieve as much as 100mbit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT.
Despite living in the UK currently, Australia is a lot nicer in so many areas. I spent 18 years living there. Internet just happens to be one downside, to which I imagine happens when you have two major bodies owning the entire infrastructure (Telstra and I think the government owns a big part of it now).
Anything faster than 20mbit in most places is usually wasted. I've got 50mbit and to most sites outside of the UK (and on a single connection) I rarely see it push past 15mbit speeds.
Also don't let bad internet and anti-gore MPs get you fooled. Australia is probably one of the better countries in the world when it comes to rights, crime, freedoms, religion and general pleasantness to live (I'd happily trade fast net for those VITAL things). Sydney is the 9th best city to live in, in the world (Mercer 2009), USA comes in with Honolulu at 24th.
<!--quoteo(post=1813007:date=Dec 4 2010, 06:17 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Dec 4 2010, 06:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813007"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not so cool of a place since they outlawed all firearms or some ######. And from the looks of the things even virtual ones depending on the game xD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually i think you just need to get a license for a firearm. And what the hell is wrong with doing that anyway? it all came about because of the massacre at Port Arthur which i think (not entirely sure) is in the top 3 solo gunman shootings. so to me i believe its a good thing not just any average person is walking around with a gun. and sure it wont stop someone from getting a gun and doing it all over again if they really wanted to but if restricting them makes it even 1% less likely to happen then its worth doing.
A few months ago i was on 3GB a month. But recently my isp have made the standard D/L 10GB a month. I can't afford a big D/L limit.
As for guns yes you need to fork out a couple hundred bucks and sit a boring lecture for 2 hours. After that you need to apply to register a gun and so on. whole process takes a few months at least.
<!--quoteo(post=1813550:date=Dec 5 2010, 07:47 PM:name=T_RAT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (T_RAT @ Dec 5 2010, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813550"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for guns yes you need to fork out a couple hundred bucks and sit a boring lecture for 2 hours. After that you need to apply to register a gun and so on. whole process takes a few months at least.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you talking about firearm licenses in Australia? Sorry, that's wrong. Only farmers can legally hold firearm licenses, there's no other exceptions.
If you weren't talking about aus, sorry to have misread.
ok, i ofc didn't mean Aus was anything else than a western first world country, i just said "devoloped world" provocatively because a developed country should be strong on ALL fronts.
and good communication infrastructure is one of the most vital "organs" in todays world (to make a comparison to a living organism).
i personally would trade cold/wet scandinavia for awesome beaches (and that lifestyle), surfing, warmth/sun...etc, ANYDAY! would miss snowsports immensely though...
Comments
in the devolped world good broadband is not a luxury - it's a right!
i've never even heard about data caps, unless the talk is about mobile (3G) broadband.
for ~40€/month i have 100/100 LAN connection at home with insanely low ping, 5 dedicated IP's and NO CAPS WHATSOEVER!
sure that's a bit luxury, but it's pretty usual in the cities. the standard is at 10/10 Mbps, and has been for several years. (come to think of it, it should have increased...)
get a real ISP, or move to a well connected country, but DON'T expect the world to adapt to specifically YOUR needs because you whine about it.
He's in Australia.
Not so cool of a place since they outlawed all firearms or some ######. And from the looks of the things even virtual ones depending on the game xD
Someone should help him out, put the patch on a DVD and mail it to the poor sod.
I'm going to be shafted if they release another optimisation fix of a similar size today as they are hoping.
3GB sounds standard for "a cheap option for old people who don't use the internet". Sounds like you've chosen that rather than the "I want to download music/movies and play games" option and payment amount for your ISP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The AUS ISPs kinda have a death grip on the country. They all have really nasty bandwidth caps and even plans with like small caps are really expensive.
I'm going to be shafted if they release another optimisation fix of a similar size today as they are hoping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not going to be shafted. Whining about file and patch size isn't going to help, especially during the pre-game release process when nothing an be done about it, take the raw update as a privelage.
100kb/s of 700MB is roughly 2 hours to download? It's not that much of a hardship.
And Karrde it still doesn't answer my question, as I full well know Scythe is Australian and does not have that sort of extreme situation forced upon him.
Not really possible for Steam updates?
Also, each week I'd send a letter to the government telling them about your ###### ISP and that they should invest in some broadband there.
100kb/s of 700MB is roughly 2 hours to download? It's not that much of a hardship.
And Karrde it still doesn't answer my question, as I full well know Scythe is Australian and does not have that sort of extreme situation forced upon him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha chill dude I was making a joke in reference to the mail idea.
As for spending 4 hours to download and redownload the game not being a hardship I agree. However, If I wanted to actually play the game today or even tomorrow (being my weekend with other things to do) its probably not going to happen -> hence, shafted.
Meh, I will play it later but I would appreciate you jumpin off the high horse of yours as I doubt you even comprehend the 'hardship' endured on this side with the pretty rubbish ISP's in Australia and NZ (until recently, and still to a certain extent we (NZ) have actually only had ONE ISP).
Also, each week I'd send a letter to the government telling them about your ###### ISP and that they should invest in some broadband there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cept you won't be able to play on any servers with out the update.
- 1MB of the patch was actual game mechanic files (aka lua)
- 10MB level files
- 530 MB audio file update (The audio files are all in archives so you have to swap the whole archives)
- remainder ~200MB: model and texture updates
/facepalm
(Thanks for taking the time to find that out Sorcerer)
but the reason Australia charges so much for internet is because the lines need to be run through the ocean. and every time you download something other isps charge your isp.
in the devolped world good broadband is not a luxury - it's a right!
i've never even heard about data caps, unless the talk is about mobile (3G) broadband.
for ~40€/month i have 100/100 LAN connection at home with insanely low ping, 5 dedicated IP's and NO CAPS WHATSOEVER!
sure that's a bit luxury, but it's pretty usual in the cities. the standard is at 10/10 Mbps, and has been for several years. (come to think of it, it should have increased...)
get a real ISP, or move to a well connected country, but DON'T expect the world to adapt to specifically YOUR needs because you whine about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no id say its definately a luxury. if what you had was available to australians, then hte majority of us would have those plans. have you ever heard of someone who moved to another country because their internet was too slow?
they are not even called "plans", but "services". cos there's nothing TO plan, not like it's a mortgage plan. you decide on speed, then you check the price for that service.
i could choose this LAN one, or a TV-cable one ~50/10 Mbps, avg ping, 1 ip, ~€30/month.
in sweden it was a POLITICAL call to get good internet infrastructure, so there needs to be pressure on those politicians in Aus.
that, or the existing companies need competition.
That's the nature of modern games unfortunately. I feel UWE don't have to answer to anyone about the size of their patches.
Can we drop this now?
This is probably why the patches are so big.
Other than that, each patch is introducing huge changes. As time goes on, they should get progressively smaller.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I advise everyone to take note of this post, this man knows what he's talking about. They are probably replacing files rather then patching. It's easier to do, and it's fast, if a little bit larger.
Yeah well we can tell your not effected by this issue, so why dont you go and put your head up your ass somewhere else?
The wow Cataclism expansion is also available in DVD/CD from the local games retailer. It's also a once off patch of that size and in no way can be compared to NS2 patches.
Wow for example, has a MPQ archive that allows them to update files within that archive without players having to download the entire thing. This is usually waht makes wow patches quite small, despite the massive changes they make to art and sound.
You might want to do some research before you post next time eh? Or on second though, dont post at all.
However, our government did just green light a national fibre optic broadband network, so within 5 years, in theory each household will achieve as much as 100mbit.
The wow Cataclism expansion is also available in DVD/CD from the local games retailer. It's also a once off patch of that size and in no way can be compared to NS2 patches.
Wow for example, has a MPQ archive that allows them to update files within that archive without players having to download the entire thing. This is usually waht makes wow patches quite small, despite the massive changes they make to art and sound.
You might want to do some research before you post next time eh? Or on second though, dont post at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeeaahh... comparing the $5,000,000,000 of net profit Blizzard make each year to an indie studio is totally logical.
I'm sorry you have bad internet, but you're a drop in the ocean. To introduce a method similar to what you described would take effort and time the devs can't afford. 99.5% of people have internet connections that can easily handle 700mb patches.
This is like going to McDonalds and whinging they don't make a certain burger, because you're the only one in the world that wants it.
However, our government did just green light a national fibre optic broadband network, so within 5 years, in theory each household will achieve as much as 100mbit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT.
Despite living in the UK currently, Australia is a lot nicer in so many areas. I spent 18 years living there. Internet just happens to be one downside, to which I imagine happens when you have two major bodies owning the entire infrastructure (Telstra and I think the government owns a big part of it now).
Anything faster than 20mbit in most places is usually wasted. I've got 50mbit and to most sites outside of the UK (and on a single connection) I rarely see it push past 15mbit speeds.
Also don't let bad internet and anti-gore MPs get you fooled. Australia is probably one of the better countries in the world when it comes to rights, crime, freedoms, religion and general pleasantness to live (I'd happily trade fast net for those VITAL things). Sydney is the 9th best city to live in, in the world (Mercer 2009), USA comes in with Honolulu at 24th.
Actually i think you just need to get a license for a firearm. And what the hell is wrong with doing that anyway? it all came about because of the massacre at Port Arthur which i think (not entirely sure) is in the top 3 solo gunman shootings. so to me i believe its a good thing not just any average person is walking around with a gun. and sure it wont stop someone from getting a gun and doing it all over again if they really wanted to but if restricting them makes it even 1% less likely to happen then its worth doing.
I can't afford a big D/L limit.
As for guns yes you need to fork out a couple hundred bucks and sit a boring lecture for 2 hours. After that you need to apply to register a gun and so on.
whole process takes a few months at least.
whole process takes a few months at least.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you talking about firearm licenses in Australia? Sorry, that's wrong. Only farmers can legally hold firearm licenses, there's no other exceptions.
If you weren't talking about aus, sorry to have misread.
i just said "devoloped world" provocatively because a developed country should be strong on ALL fronts.
and good communication infrastructure is one of the most vital "organs" in todays world (to make a comparison to a living organism).
i personally would trade cold/wet scandinavia for awesome beaches (and that lifestyle), surfing, warmth/sun...etc, ANYDAY!
would miss snowsports immensely though...