Wall-climbing (Skulk) nerfed in NS2?

SmasherSmasher Join Date: 2005-03-06 Member: 43732Members
Is it just me or has the Skulk's ability to climb walls/ceilings been "nerfed" in NS2? I seem to lose my grip all the time, falling down to the ground (and get shot in the face=P).
I never had any problem wall-climbing in NS1, I could even take 90° corners in full speed with no issue at all. In NS2 however, I even find the transition wall-cieling to be difficult without losing my grip:s
Is it just me, or has anyone else experienced this aswell?

Comments

  • Bobby is going homeBobby is going home Join Date: 2010-04-11 Member: 71323Awaiting Authorization
    This is due to the maps geometry etc. It will be tuned in the future I guess.
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I really think they should re-introduce inverted wall climbing but make it better. You do not have to think about running when you are a marine, yet you have to consider all the surfaces you are running on as a skulk because otherwise you fall off. It should be more like AVP.

    The key thing I think, is to add a property to the floor so that the skulk view indicates this as the 'right way up'. You should also be able to easily leap off different surfaces, and your view should orient itself smoothly. Jumping between X,Y,Z is disorientating.
  • TriggermanTriggerman Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Not sure about changing the view but I think that holding Shift should make you really stick to surfaces, so if you want to go over an obstacle you can hold shift and there's no way you can fall down (at the cost of a bit of speed but that shouldn't really matter all that much).
    But in general the wallclimbing should be improved, it's a bit finicky.
  • DJ SplendidDJ Splendid Join Date: 2010-08-14 Member: 73629Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1810895:date=Nov 26 2010, 08:22 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Nov 26 2010, 08:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... [] ... they should re-introduce inverted wall climbing but make it better ... [] ... The key thing I think, is to add a property to the floor so that the skulk view indicates this as the 'right way up'. You should also be able to easily leap off different surfaces, and your view should orient itself smoothly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Indeed. It's the only way I'd implement it.
  • HakujinHakujin Join Date: 2003-05-09 Member: 16157Members, Constellation
    Rotating the view is not going to happen - I'm pretty sure this is a confirmed design decision. And I agree with UWE on this one - its too disorienting for my simple brain!
  • thecowsaysmoothecowsaysmoo Join Date: 2008-02-02 Member: 63557Members
    I've actually had the opposite problem, I think skulks ceilling climbing works WAY better in ns2, constantly in ns1 u are falling off when switching from a flat surface, this works much better in ns2, and after leap gets upgraded, skulk play is imo, the best part of the game right now..
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    It is disorientating because if you go near a wall, suddenly your view flips like a burger, so if you are moving between multiple surfaces quickly it can be very difficult. Especially if you step near a piece of geometry that is like 2 pixels in size and your view goes crazy. If you could identify where the Z axis is, it would be a lot easier.

    If the floor has a funny glow to it, that would resolve the issue. The main issue though is that realistically you probably have to write a very complicated script and create special surfaces all over the map. Probably not worth it.. however, it just does not feel right still. New players will find this disappointing.

    Not that this game is not great, but just the little details always make the difference.
  • DeadzoneDeadzone Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17911Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1810900:date=Nov 26 2010, 03:36 PM:name=Triggerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Triggerman @ Nov 26 2010, 03:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure about changing the view but I think that holding Shift should make you really stick to surfaces, so if you want to go over an obstacle you can hold shift and there's no way you can fall down (at the cost of a bit of speed but that shouldn't really matter all that much).
    But in general the wallclimbing should be improved, it's a bit finicky.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This would be nice, actually. I think the Unreal Tournament line of games has something like that where if you hold down duck or walk, you won't walk off any platforms. I do like the skulk's current option to hold a key to stay OFF walls, but it'd be great to have a key to guarantee you'll stay ON a wall, too.
  • KhazeKhaze Join Date: 2006-12-12 Member: 59031Members
    edited November 2010
    UWE's said before the reason they didn't implement rotating view for Skulks in NS1 was because they could never get it to work properly. I'm sure there is some consideration to playability aswell, but that's the gist of it as far as I can tell.

    Personally, I'll be very sad if it won't happen. Makes utilizing surfaces soo much more natural. As an avid fan of AVP games, I've always felt like I'm missing a limb, sort of speak, when playing as Skulk.

    Hell, I'd even be fine with making it toggleable. Would surely result in a lot of variety in how Skulks move about and fight... at the very least.
  • VicVic Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75106Members
    edited November 2010
    Skulk wallwalking with rotating view in NS1 (mod): <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nqKcuFUe_c" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nqKcuFUe_c</a>

    Also in AvP2 the alien wallwalking is very manageable and extremely fun, rotating view included. It takes a bit to get used to, but it pays off quite quickly (except in vents) and you get a "gravity" arrow telling you which way is down: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVWpiSwzwqw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVWpiSwzwqw</a> (Also, you get exosuits :)
  • yimmasabiyimmasabi Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58318Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1810924:date=Nov 26 2010, 10:02 PM:name=Hakujin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hakujin @ Nov 26 2010, 10:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810924"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rotating the view is not going to happen - I'm pretty sure this is a confirmed design decision. And I agree with UWE on this one - its too disorienting for my simple brain!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ohhh Nooo C'mon !
    This is reality ! Please rotate the view while skulk hanging on the ceiling.
  • kingmobkingmob Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3650Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1810878:date=Nov 26 2010, 01:30 PM:name=Smasher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Smasher @ Nov 26 2010, 01:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810878"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is it just me or has the Skulk's ability to climb walls/ceilings been "nerfed" in NS2? I seem to lose my grip all the time<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No I am having trouble walking on walls as well.
    Skulks need to be more sticky.

    Walking on walls should not necessitate extra keys presses...it should just be.
    A jump or a leap is intuitive enough to detach from a wall.
  • WarmongerWarmonger Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13126Members, Constellation
    edited November 2010
    I don't think there is anything to fear - everything is still a WIP at this point. It looks like the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111580&st=0&p=1809191&#entry1809191" target="_blank">devs</a> are also adding invisible clipping planes so skulks can walk over complicated geometry.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Wall climbing should be sticky at full speed IMO. To let go you jump off or hold crouch.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    View Rotations has been discussed to death, most agree a toggleable feature for personal preference would be sweet, and I'd guess around 40-60% say view rotation is harder to get used to.


    Also, oh gawds the pain from the view rotation implementation on Tremulous. All the textures look the same so WHICH WAY WAS DOWN????? I heave AvP is sweet, but never played it.
  • danshyudanshyu Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2105Members
    AvP has an icon at the center that indicates the direction of the gravity so you'll never have to guess which way's down.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    View turning is cool but it does absolutely nothing to enhance gameplay IMO.
  • BarerRudeROCBarerRudeROC Join Date: 2010-10-01 Member: 74264Members
    edited November 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1810895:date=Nov 26 2010, 08:22 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Nov 26 2010, 08:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It should be more like AvP<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's right,
    Let's take ideas from a game that failed it's expectations/community and was a total mess.
    Especially multiplayer wise where it was so bad it turned veterans/people off the series forever.

    And considering NS2 is a multiplayer only game,
    I don't think we want the same result as the new AvP.

    The system in NS2 is better than AvP by miles.
    Don't fix that which isn't broken.

    Sooner or later the map geometry will be tweaked and the wall climbing will be perfected.
  • WhiteZeroWhiteZero That Guy Join Date: 2004-06-24 Member: 29511Members, Constellation
    edited November 2010
    Shift to stay stuck to walls, like in NS1, would certainly be best.
  • TyphonTyphon Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1899Members
    I agree that currently walls feel much less 'sticky' than in ns1.
  • kyliegirlkyliegirl Gorge Master Australia Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10586Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited November 2010
    i find wall climbing annoying atm in ns2, my skulk wont stop slipping off the walls, I find it very hard to stick to any wall after a certain height. would agree on introducing a key that you could hold to increase the strength of grip so you dont slip off.
  • BAshhBAshh Join Date: 2003-08-26 Member: 20222Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I've always felt like it broke continuity to have your view stay oriented like you were on the ground. I donno, it might be nice to try elsewise, but I'm not going to be upset if it doesn't change. Though I agree it feels like it doesn't make sense to me, trying to move that way.
  • project_demonproject_demon Join Date: 2003-07-12 Member: 18103Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1811034:date=Nov 26 2010, 10:26 PM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Nov 26 2010, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811034"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree that currently walls feel much less 'sticky' than in ns1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ya i've experience a hard time sticking to surfaces.
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