Haha I love the balance right now. I can already see us two months from now, "remember when the flamethrower was the I WIN button?" These will be some of our fondest memories :D
Lerker shot is too powerfull(lerker shot should be same as lmg damage, with maybe a 15% boost when in "snipe mode" the big thing here for me is that it is sometime hard to switch from spores to lerker snipe, the UI is kind of buggy), Lerker Spores is not powerful enough(also I think anyone who steps into the spores should be parasited after that if they survive, jsut makes sense spores growing on marines)
Flamethrowers+Gl's way too powerful, and flamethrowers blinding aliens is just ridiculous and can turn into "god mode" for a good marine player.....GL's insta-1shot kill fades or alteast it feels like it, sometime u cant even see the marines and they can 1 shot you form accross a room.
In general my feelings are, Marines have the best ranged weapon, the grenade launcher, And they also have the best melee or short range weapon, the flamethrower. Flamethrower should not even be in the game, Marines already have an overpowered close range weapon, the Shotgun, The flamethrower is just a god mode version of the shotgun and is really just laughable. It makes shotguns irrelevant, and makes fades and skulks useless since it is a better short range weapon.....Aliens should have the best short range weapons, marines should be ranged.(thats not to say flamethrower doesnt work at decent range too lol...:(
edit: also Marines lmg might be a little underpowered, that will haev to be determind later though.
The biggest issue currently is the ineffectiveness of the Marine team at Tier 1, and the extreme effectiveness of them at Tier 2. As has been mentioned, the Tier 1 ineffectiveness ties directly into the Marine team's inability to take down structures in Tier 1. This is completely reversed in Tier 2 due to the GL, but obviously this is going to change. What still seems lacking is an anti-structure weapon in Tier 1.
Rifles are pretty balanced against Skulks and Lerks, whilst Shotguns are good enough against Fades and great against Skulks, whilst still requireing decent aim to use effectively. They're also a bit of a gamble vs Fades; miss a shot or two and you're most likely dead because you need to get up close and personal.
Perhaps the best solution would be to increase the Shotgun's structure damage, maybe by making it Structural and ramping the damage up significantly, so it's much better against buildings but the same against players. This would allow Tier 1 Marine teams to still take down structures, but with much more risk; they'd have to get up nice and close to do it.
Aside from this, the eventual entry of the mobile siege gun may alter the stage, but can we honestly see this being available in Tier 1? If it was, it would have to be expensive and low powered. Perhaps, given that it's now mobile, one could be made available in Tier 1, but it could be slowly upgraded as the game went on? It would effectively be a bit of a super weapon: slow moving, capable of clearing rooms, but take it out and the Marines have to start all over again. It could really play into the whole "taking and holding territory in a slow advance" mode of play that the Marines in NS2 have.
<!--quoteo(post=1809697:date=Nov 24 2010, 09:14 AM:name=thecowsaysmoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thecowsaysmoo @ Nov 24 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809697"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerker shot is too powerfull(lerker shot should be same as lmg damage, with maybe a 15% boost when in "snipe mode" the big thing here for me is that it is sometime hard to switch from spores to lerker snipe, the UI is kind of buggy), Lerker Spores is not powerful enough(also I think anyone who steps into the spores should be parasited after that if they survive, jsut makes sense spores growing on marines)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The Lerk is the pretty much only class I found to be almost perfectly defined in it's role. It's fantastic at area denial- the spores shouldn't deal a lot more damage until UWE severely limit the ability's spamability, and even then a slight buff will be enough to discourage people from haphazardly running through it.
The snipe needs to be powerful, it's a snipe (on the only proper ranged class aliens have!), after all. It's another way of area denial, on a psychological level. Marines need to learn to move erratically and not crouch down while shooting a lerk that's standing still 10 meters from them (...seriously).
Combined with the low health and armor, I think the lerk is pretty well balanced for the current state of the game (until GLs hit the field, of course). The (un-scope ->) weaponswitch really needs to be fixed though, agreed.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
well the lerk snipe... i posted it in the beginning: in its current form it feels too strong: When i play as lerk I feel i dont deserve all the kills, when I play marine I feel I could do nothing against it... If it would cost more energy that would be nice, something like 70% energy. Then you cannot 2 shot kill everyone you have to wait for recharge your energy after first shot. but you could one-shot wounded marines.
I think the problem just often is that when the first shot hits you have no idea what hit you, so the second kills you without being able to react. As said: recharge time is a problem here but also missing "bulet trails" from the ability which, if I remember correctly, will be included later. This feature might kinda nerf the ability because it is much easier to spot a Lerk (which will force Lerks to move positions once shot) and Marines jumping to cover once they see the trail.
<!--quoteo(post=1809748:date=Nov 24 2010, 12:16 PM:name=Bobby is going home)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bobby is going home @ Nov 24 2010, 12:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809748"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the problem just often is that when the first shot hits you have no idea what hit you, so the second kills you without being able to react. As said: recharge time is a problem here but also missing "bulet trails" from the ability which, if I remember correctly, will be included later. This feature might kinda nerf the ability because it is much easier to spot a Lerk (which will force Lerks to move positions once shot) and Marines jumping to cover once they see the trail.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can anyone accuse the game of not being balanced? Aliens and Marines are exactly the same now (unfortunately). Comms, drifers/MAcs, etc. The only balancing that needs to be addressed is with the maps.
<!--quoteo(post=1809914:date=Nov 24 2010, 08:11 PM:name=PoNeH)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PoNeH @ Nov 24 2010, 08:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809914"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can anyone accuse the game of not being balanced? Aliens and Marines are exactly the same now (unfortunately). Comms, drifers/MAcs, etc. The only balancing that needs to be addressed is with the maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please, go further, MACS & Commanders and then, what ? What ? What ? What ? Haha please you have no idea of what you're talking about. Wait until we got all features in.
<!--quoteo(post=1809914:date=Nov 24 2010, 03:11 PM:name=PoNeH)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PoNeH @ Nov 24 2010, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809914"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can anyone accuse the game of not being balanced? Aliens and Marines are exactly the same now (unfortunately). Comms, drifers/MAcs, etc. The only balancing that needs to be addressed is with the maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL. You're exaggerating just a bit.
<!--quoteo(post=1809914:date=Nov 24 2010, 03:11 PM:name=PoNeH)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PoNeH @ Nov 24 2010, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809914"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can anyone accuse the game of not being balanced? Aliens and Marines are exactly the same now (unfortunately). Comms, drifers/MAcs, etc. The only balancing that needs to be addressed is with the maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1809672:date=Nov 24 2010, 01:28 AM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Nov 24 2010, 01:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There needs to be a delay for switching to grenade launcher from rifle and vise versa, or even having the rifle disabled while the grenade launcher attachment is active. As it is, there is absolutely no reason why you would want a rifle over a rifle with a grenade launcher. In NS1, the power of the GL was offset by the fact that the user had limited ability to protect himself in close quarters. The advantage that the GL provides to the user must come with an disadvantage equal in magnitude.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Once the resource system is worked out, you won't be able to buy yourself a new GL every time you respawn. You may be low on res period, or you may be saving up for something else. GL spam is especially bad atm because people have way more res than they should and nothing to spend it on but gls and flame throwers. So, yes, the gl is an outright upgrade to the lmg, but not one that everyone will have all the time.
Comments
Flamethrowers+Gl's way too powerful, and flamethrowers blinding aliens is just ridiculous and can turn into "god mode" for a good marine player.....GL's insta-1shot kill fades or alteast it feels like it, sometime u cant even see the marines and they can 1 shot you form accross a room.
In general my feelings are, Marines have the best ranged weapon, the grenade launcher, And they also have the best melee or short range weapon, the flamethrower. Flamethrower should not even be in the game, Marines already have an overpowered close range weapon, the Shotgun, The flamethrower is just a god mode version of the shotgun and is really just laughable. It makes shotguns irrelevant, and makes fades and skulks useless since it is a better short range weapon.....Aliens should have the best short range weapons, marines should be ranged.(thats not to say flamethrower doesnt work at decent range too lol...:(
edit: also Marines lmg might be a little underpowered, that will haev to be determind later though.
Rifles are pretty balanced against Skulks and Lerks, whilst Shotguns are good enough against Fades and great against Skulks, whilst still requireing decent aim to use effectively. They're also a bit of a gamble vs Fades; miss a shot or two and you're most likely dead because you need to get up close and personal.
Perhaps the best solution would be to increase the Shotgun's structure damage, maybe by making it Structural and ramping the damage up significantly, so it's much better against buildings but the same against players. This would allow Tier 1 Marine teams to still take down structures, but with much more risk; they'd have to get up nice and close to do it.
Aside from this, the eventual entry of the mobile siege gun may alter the stage, but can we honestly see this being available in Tier 1? If it was, it would have to be expensive and low powered. Perhaps, given that it's now mobile, one could be made available in Tier 1, but it could be slowly upgraded as the game went on? It would effectively be a bit of a super weapon: slow moving, capable of clearing rooms, but take it out and the Marines have to start all over again. It could really play into the whole "taking and holding territory in a slow advance" mode of play that the Marines in NS2 have.
The Lerk is the pretty much only class I found to be almost perfectly defined in it's role. It's fantastic at area denial- the spores shouldn't deal a lot more damage until UWE severely limit the ability's spamability, and even then a slight buff will be enough to discourage people from haphazardly running through it.
The snipe needs to be powerful, it's a snipe (on the only proper ranged class aliens have!), after all. It's another way of area denial, on a psychological level. Marines need to learn to move erratically and not crouch down while shooting a lerk that's standing still 10 meters from them (...seriously).
Combined with the low health and armor, I think the lerk is pretty well balanced for the current state of the game (until GLs hit the field, of course).
The (un-scope ->) weaponswitch really needs to be fixed though, agreed.
How can anyone accuse the game of not being balanced? Aliens and Marines are exactly the same now (unfortunately). Comms, drifers/MAcs, etc. The only balancing that needs to be addressed is with the maps.
Please, go further, MACS & Commanders and then, what ? What ? What ? What ? Haha please you have no idea of what you're talking about. Wait until we got all features in.
LOL. You're exaggerating just a bit.
Just a bit.
+1 for alien flamethrower
Once the resource system is worked out, you won't be able to buy yourself a new GL every time you respawn. You may be low on res period, or you may be saving up for something else. GL spam is especially bad atm because people have way more res than they should and nothing to spend it on but gls and flame throwers. So, yes, the gl is an outright upgrade to the lmg, but not one that everyone will have all the time.