so about that machine gun alt fire

ThaTha Join Date: 2009-06-05 Member: 67694Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Whats it's intended use?</div>I just wanted to know, if 40 damage is an acceptable alt fire, considering skulks have 80 total damage taken before death atm, and fades having 450.(the only ones the alt fire really applies to)

I mean if it were up to me it'd be an effect that would give the marine a second or 2 spare time, with diminishing effects(see deadspace or the fade trailer)
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Comments

  • NimbatNimbat Join Date: 2010-11-21 Member: 75146Members
    Something definately has to be done about the alt-fire. There's just no time to fend off anything with it (especially with all the lag).
    Having some sort of lock-down with an alien if you press it just in time the alien strikes would be awesome (like the fade trailer).

    This would give you a few seconds while the animation plays and any marine buddies around can spray, say the fade, full of bullets while it cannot move.

    Not sure how this would work with the skulk. Maybe you'd push it back a few meters since it's quite small.

    Although again, no point in doing this yet because of the lag.

    I support this idea!
  • TheGivingTreeTheGivingTree Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12070Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1808506:date=Nov 22 2010, 06:21 AM:name=Nimbat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nimbat @ Nov 22 2010, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808506"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Something definately has to be done about the alt-fire. There's just no time to fend off anything with it (especially with all the lag).
    Having some sort of lock-down with an alien if you press it just in time the alien strikes would be awesome (like the fade trailer).

    This would give you a few seconds while the animation plays and any marine buddies around can spray, say the fade, full of bullets while it cannot move.

    Not sure how this would work with the skulk. Maybe you'd push it back a few meters since it's quite small.

    Although again, no point in doing this yet because of the lag.

    I support this idea!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    A lock down with any alien outside of the Behemoth (right?) sounds like a bad ass idea, or even a slight stun? Something like in Left 4 Dead 2.
  • Donner & BlitzenDonner & Blitzen Join Date: 2010-03-08 Member: 70879Members
    edited November 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1808506:date=Nov 22 2010, 07:21 AM:name=Nimbat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nimbat @ Nov 22 2010, 07:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808506"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This would give you a few seconds while the animation plays and any marine buddies around can spray, say the fade, full of bullets while it cannot move.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    A big no to paralyzing effects, as we always say.

    Perhaps it could be used as a parrying move? Use it at the right time, and the attacker's is pushed back slightly and deals no (or reduced) damage.

    Obviously wouldn't work against an Onos though.
  • NimbatNimbat Join Date: 2010-11-21 Member: 75146Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1808515:date=Nov 22 2010, 10:38 AM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Nov 22 2010, 10:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808515"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Obviously wouldn't work against an Onos though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Of course it would. It would fuction like this:

    The Onos attacks you and you block the attack. You then swing up on it´s back legolas-style and then ride it into battle, stomping and crushing the poor skulks.

    Yeah.
  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1808516:date=Nov 22 2010, 06:46 AM:name=Nimbat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nimbat @ Nov 22 2010, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808516"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course it would. It would fuction like this:

    The Onos attacks you and you block the attack. You then swing up on it´s back legolas-style and then ride it into battle, stomping and crushing the poor skulks.

    Yeah.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I lol'd. Thanks.
  • ThaTha Join Date: 2009-06-05 Member: 67694Members
    hahaha mad lotr ref there, i support pushbacks the most, stunnings abit overkill, im all for a parry idea, would be great for vsing fades, however it must have diminishing effects, i remmeber in avp its just a 3 way melee system, that was stupidly broken by bull###### things, just a simple pushback would be the most preferable that has diminishing return effects but fairly long range
  • bhazbhaz Join Date: 2009-11-11 Member: 69353Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1808515:date=Nov 22 2010, 07:38 PM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Nov 22 2010, 07:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808515"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A big no to paralyzing effects, as we always say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    +1
    AVP has proven that mechanic doesn't work.
  • eisigereisiger Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75159Members
    40 damage should be enough to finish anything that is close enough and eaten enough bullets. Perhaps a short dizzying effect when they are struck in the head.
  • NimbatNimbat Join Date: 2010-11-21 Member: 75146Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1808529:date=Nov 22 2010, 11:30 AM:name=eisiger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eisiger @ Nov 22 2010, 11:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808529"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->40 damage should be enough to finish anything that is close enough and eaten enough bullets. Perhaps a short dizzying effect when they are struck in the head.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Blurred vision maybe?
  • salorsalor Join Date: 2004-02-21 Member: 26771Members
    I say NO to push-backs.

    The alien side is heavily based on melee atack...all you would need is one marine to connect a hit with the alt fire and the skulk/fade etc is either dead...or almost dead.

    Also...for a free, no upgrade requred, BASIC atack like that...it shouldnt even have those effects.

    I think the original purpose of it was to be used as a last resort atack when you run out of bullets (just my own guess), but it dosent make sense seeing that you already have the Axe..which serves the exact same purpose.

    Yes, the alt bashing-with-your-gun atack is quicker then the Axe, and you dont have to switch wep during a fight. <b>But then wtf is the use of the axe now???</b> I mean i can just run around and bash resource towers with my gun now to save bullets...something that the knife/axe used to be very useful for...

    I'd say change the alt fire to something else and leave the BASIC MARINE MELEE ATACK to be done with the Axe...thats what the Axe is for...


    It could be anything...e.g..increase rate of fire but lower accuracy...or whatever...anything but a melee atack....because i forsee the Axe becoming very useless when the game becomes playable....
  • TurtleTurtle Join Date: 2002-10-18 Member: 1540Members
    Maybe the old tazer idea (what happened to that?) can be put into the butt of the gun?
  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1808544:date=Nov 22 2010, 08:45 AM:name=Turtle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Turtle @ Nov 22 2010, 08:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808544"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe the old tazer idea (what happened to that?) can be put into the butt of the gun?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The taser idea got flamed into oblivion. We've quietly let it pass on.
  • salorsalor Join Date: 2004-02-21 Member: 26771Members
    I ask again...<b>wtf is the use of the axe/knife now that you have the alt fire ALSO as melee?</b>
  • NimbatNimbat Join Date: 2010-11-21 Member: 75146Members
    edited November 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1808549:date=Nov 22 2010, 12:52 PM:name=salor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (salor @ Nov 22 2010, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808549"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I ask again...<b>wtf is the use of the axe/knife now that you have the alt fire ALSO as melee?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You have a point. Maybe an upgradable laserpointer so other marines can see where you're aiming? :D

    I mean it shouldn't be a problem for the engine since we have dynamic lightning, flashlights and whatnot.
    A team of marines searching dark corridors with laserpointers would be very atmospheric!

    EDIT: with a limited battery ofc
  • yourbonesakinyourbonesakin Join Date: 2005-08-06 Member: 57682Members
    Laser guided axes. My, what technological wonders the 23rd century will bring :D
  • NimbatNimbat Join Date: 2010-11-21 Member: 75146Members
    The more I think about it the more I like the idea of laserpointers on the rifle.
  • TurtleTurtle Join Date: 2002-10-18 Member: 1540Members
    Except that the laserpointers would give a nasty advantage to alien players, with no benefit to marine players since they already have the crosshair.

    Alien players could see the lasers and know exactly where the marines are looking, even when they're not being cautious, and from distances that are unfair.
  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Stunning is bad, but back in the day of the dragon ball z mods there was an aweseome mechanic of melee lock, where you had to hit direction keys to fight melee, and the one losing got hit by a flurry of attacks.
    To me it makes sense to include this against skulks, lerks and fades (sans the rediculous amount of attacks of course).

    Today they are called quicktime events afaik.
  • ThaTha Join Date: 2009-06-05 Member: 67694Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1808543:date=Nov 22 2010, 11:39 PM:name=salor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (salor @ Nov 22 2010, 11:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808543"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I say NO to push-backs.

    The alien side is heavily based on melee atack...all you would need is one marine to connect a hit with the alt fire and the skulk/fade etc is either dead...or almost dead.

    Also...for a free, no upgrade requred, BASIC atack like that...it shouldnt even have those effects.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ... machine guns are free, they dont require upgrades and its basic attack kills a skulk in half a second if locked on... meanwhile thier alt fire does nothing... dps wise the machine gun primary fire will be superior... imo it needs a revamp to be made more useful or to be taken and replaced with something else, like someone mentioned higher fire rate(good for fades in your face i'd say, worse for skulks)
  • NimbatNimbat Join Date: 2010-11-21 Member: 75146Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1808562:date=Nov 22 2010, 01:31 PM:name=Turtle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Turtle @ Nov 22 2010, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Except that the laserpointers would give a nasty advantage to alien players, with no benefit to marine players since they already have the crosshair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Purely cosmetic and atmoshpere-inducing mindboggling effect.
  • GohanZetaGohanZeta Join Date: 2010-11-18 Member: 74996Members, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1808562:date=Nov 22 2010, 03:31 PM:name=Turtle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Turtle @ Nov 22 2010, 03:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Except that the laserpointers would give a nasty advantage to alien players, with no benefit to marine players since they already have the crosshair.

    Alien players could see the lasers and know exactly where the marines are looking, even when they're not being cautious, and from distances that are unfair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Well nowadays Laserpointers are used to blind the enemy so this might be an additional use, dont make it as irritating as the Flamer blind, just make it feel like something very bright hit your eyes. This way u get the effect of easier focused fire and a mini blind that can safe your ass when a Skulk is running at you like a Berserk. Ofc make it just a mini blind just enough to give the marine a chance to dodge away for like 1 bite
  • NimbatNimbat Join Date: 2010-11-21 Member: 75146Members
    Having a blinding effect on the laserpointer is a terrible idea and would be severely annoying for the aliens.

    Also I can't see this working in a reasonable way. Would it blind the skulk simply when aiming at it? No thanks.
  • eisigereisiger Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75159Members
    edited November 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1808549:date=Nov 22 2010, 08:52 AM:name=salor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (salor @ Nov 22 2010, 08:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1808549"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I ask again...<b>wtf is the use of the axe/knife now that you have the alt fire ALSO as melee?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So you don't have to switch to it, and because the hatchet is meant more for buildings than for head-on fights. The hatchet is still useful because of its speed, but it could use a good buff against players.

    Almost every marine weapon revealed could be used to smack aliens around with the butt of the gun, so why not add a Melee key?
  • NimbatNimbat Join Date: 2010-11-21 Member: 75146Members
    edited November 2010
    In Crysis (yeah I know, bad example) you could switch on laserpointers so that they replaced your crosshair.
    Of course the crosshair is more than fine as it is, and laserpointers as mentioned will only give out your position to nearby aliens.

    But seriously, what's wrong with fluff? It looks cool and it fits perfectly within NS2's atmosphere. The aliens probably know where you are anyway.

    I can't think of any other good uses as a secondary fire except for a melee attack.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Perhaps an accuracy toggle like the pistol? As far as I know the pistol is supposed to get a laser beam when accurized, so why not do the same for the rifle?
  • ZurikiZuriki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75105Members
    May I suggest automatic/burst switch?

    Automatic:
    - Low accuracy
    - High rate of fire
    - Average damage

    Burst:
    - High accuracy
    - Low rate of fire
    - High<b>er</b> damage (I mean the change near negligible)

    Opinions?
  • ASnogarDASnogarD Join Date: 2003-10-24 Member: 21894Members
    edited November 2010
    I am suprised at the lack of some aiming mode in the rifle, and the addition of a melee swipe.
    The problem with the swipe is that if its effective it will take out the use of the dedicate melee weapon ( the axe ) , if not its a waste of a alt ability.

    Personally I would ditch the rifle swipe ( it brings up fears of L4D style swipe teams ) , adjust the fire cone of the main fire mode to be wider ( inaccurate at longer ranges ) and add a aim down sight function for the alt weapon mode of the rifle with a much improved accuracy but make it that the aim down sight decreases / limits the view to the sides .. like a zoom.

    In short, ditch the swipe and make the rifle alt fire switch to modes : aimed shots ( zoomed, looking down the sights, slower rate of fire, more accurate) or burst fire ( faster rate of fire, inaccurate beyond medium range, doesnt impede vision ).
    It fits better than a swipe mode, dont forget that the aliens are suppose to be masters at melee range ... giving the Marines an easy manner to melee when a alien gets to its main attack range is unfair to the alien team, ESPECIALLY if you add things like pushbacks.
  • xVisionsxVisions Join Date: 2009-07-03 Member: 68021Members
    edited November 2010
    I really am indifferent to having alt fire to the stock LMG but i do see some potential in it...

    1.A scenario when fighting skulks; a skilled player could wack a skulk with it not necessarily disabling it in anyway but knocking them them to the side some but not slowing them (damage optional). Makes this more of a defensive move but i think it would be more balanced and effective rather than some big damage melee attack.

    2. I hope it wouldn't do any significant damage and no damage to any other Alien lifeforms other than a gorge and skulk.


    Alternative Alt Fire:

    1.I really would like to see some sort of sights that could be upgraded and added on to the LMG though for a secondary fire; the spread on the fire is pretty big at a distance currently.

    2. I don't like the idea of LMG firing modes, I rather have the penalty for using sights being your visibility is somewhat lessened by the muzzle flash.
  • TacotaTacota Join Date: 2009-10-12 Member: 69027Members
    edited November 2010
    I say leave it how it is until the game is smoother and we can actually use it more. I would like to believe it does less damage than the axe, so the axe is still worth it for when you have time to switch to it and a melee weapon is needed.
    So for structures or out of ammo, switch to axe. But for a quick smack to a skulk when your clip is empty and they are in your face, alt-fire... In a lot of situations it could very well finish them off. Just think, they're running at you and you used most of your clip while they are coming out you, dodging around... they leap at you *smack* dead. It shouldn't do damage to fades and onos though in my opinion.

    For some alternatives though, I could quickly think of two things.
    Or maybe a more accurate 3-round burst or something...
    Or maybe it negates the dmg from a skulks first bite if they leaped at you and you manage to hit them in the face (no knockback or anything)


    HOWEVER, I think its too early to try and change. I see potential in it, and like the usage I could get out of the alt-fire how it is now.
    There is use both for it, and the axe, even the way it is now.
  • FaustinianFaustinian Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73148Members
    The melee with the rifle feels more like a Marines attempt to save themselves to me, and less of a usable offensive maneuver. Why not simply set it up so that to melee with the Rifle is to negate any melee attack (singular, not plural), with diminishing returns (slower or less damage negated?). No damage would be dealt for the sake of balance, but it would allow a Marine to stave off being slaughtered, at least long enough that a buddy can cover him.
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