Lets talk about game balance!
Sewlek
The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
since the game is becoming for more and more people playable, I think we should start talking about balance. I didnt have the pleasure
of playing alot of smooth games, but in the few i had I found some problems:
1.) lerk sniper is quite overpowered. getting 2-shotted as a marine from far distances isnt really funny. Takes away the basic concept "melee vs. range"
2.) MACs / Drifters... I see the pathing is being worked on, so I leave that out. Disturbing is that you need them to build structures, couldnt you just "drop"
it like in ns1 (transparent ghost structure) and a gorge / marine gets a command "build structure at waypoint"? (as an additional alternative to the current system)
I will post more when i find something else
of playing alot of smooth games, but in the few i had I found some problems:
1.) lerk sniper is quite overpowered. getting 2-shotted as a marine from far distances isnt really funny. Takes away the basic concept "melee vs. range"
2.) MACs / Drifters... I see the pathing is being worked on, so I leave that out. Disturbing is that you need them to build structures, couldnt you just "drop"
it like in ns1 (transparent ghost structure) and a gorge / marine gets a command "build structure at waypoint"? (as an additional alternative to the current system)
I will post more when i find something else
Comments
Whips are a 2 shot kill thats pretty powerfull but then there range sucks ofc so i gues that balances out.
im surprised didn't mention crags there are SWEET you plant 3 near a choke with a few whips nothing will break threw apart from mass gl spam.
on the lerk thing sure 2 shot is powerful but i mean this isnt an open battle field corridors and stuff getting a good place and a shot he deserve the 2 shot kill and if the marine is dumb enough to stand there they deserve to die. (until lag dies down then people will have great twitch shots)
one thing that has been pointed out is tech trees need fixing, but definatly the flame thrower blinding people
oh oh oh also rifle needs to do more damage to a skulk or maybe i had bad aim (prolly the latter)
gl nerf, yes that thing is redonkulas it has a massive area of effect and with sicking damage 1 shot a skulk sure 1 shot a lerk ehhh no not a full hp and armor one
but that is my 2 cents
Sentries are more powerful though. And the commander can change the direction they face though its not the same as firing 360 like hydras.
ive also noticed that this is a big problem. at least the first time (lets say during 1 minute after creating) changing the sentries
direction should be instantly or very fast. Often when i place 3 - 4 sentries, all will face the same direction and I had
not enough time to change that before the aliens rush in (well and destroy them easily)
sure they can change it, as long as the aliens don't mind waiting 1 minit for it to happen that could be speed up a bit or even better make it so when we build them we pick the direction.
we also need to start with ALOT less res, and it needs to come in a tad slower as well because at the start i will rush 3 new hives put up xtractors and by that time i can start putting up static defences and since the enemy com isnt that great is stuck with just shottys
that would be even better
MG- was perfect early game, however its alternate fire is extremly weak, imo its alt fire needs to knock back enemies based on thier weight(eg 1 m pushback for fade 1.5 m for lerk and gorge 2 m for skulks.
The flamer- initial damage should be reduced, its blinding effect lowered but not taken away as i find it would supplement the flamethrowers support role. once this was researched marines almost always won because team would stack it, my idea would be reduce initial damage largely, make damage over time its main way to deal damage, this way its a support thing that will complement the team.
Shotgun-can't comment, i was demolishing skulks after comm quick researched it, fades came in and it became a really 1 sided fight against people who already had the art of blinking downpat(they just blink next to you i pump them as much as i can but they always get me)
GL: Too good against skulks and lerks and gorges, medium against fades, absolutely terrific for owning hives and all buildings, needs to not reload after shot so i can unload my clip on a fade.
Sentries- useless at the moment,increase targetting aquisition time and radius and time its firing.
Alien side balance issues
Skulk- Perfect the way it is, it's ambush skills are absolutely amazing new leap just completes it due to standing still from elevated position behind wall, leaping from height nomming any marine instantly.
Lerk, flight is still abit iffy, this put me off testing him
Fade- needs some sort of delay between attacking and blinking, can just blink next to marine and hold m1, get rid of the damn autoaim, i dont wanna blink and attack to instantly own a marine.
Gorge- hydras lag server, so i avoided as they are its main power
Crag-havnt seen enough
whip-seem like they do thier role of close range denial
EDIT
i know this is pretty much alpha stage as its still feature incomplete, but i have done more balance testing and have got to say, aliens tech too fast and too easy, marines get shotties and proceed to fight lerks then aliens just jump to fades really quick, where marines have no thing else to hold on to untill they get gls/flamethrower at which point the tech game ends and marines win.
I feel that both sides start with too much carbon, and that players (more marines than kharra) accumulate plasma far too quickly. There doesn't seem to be much tension surrounding res nodes or resources in general. More pressure is placed on the need to fast expand to a new tech node, and to keep spawn rates high. Since res doesn't seem too important, once tech is unlocked, it's pretty much in general use.
I'd like to see plasma split among team members a la kharra resources in NS1... it seems silly to give 1 plasma per player, meaning that resourcers generate a variable amount rather than a fixed amount of res.
(As a side note: while GLing a hive, a commander replicated an armory next to me ~= infinite ammo in grenade launcher! This is an amazing tactic...)
My main pet peeve is probably the flamethrower and grenade launcher. I always try to encourage people to go easy with them in my server, seeing a team of flamethrowers or grenades usually destroys what gameplay is available.
The obvious; Grenades need to do friendly fire. Hopefully encourage strategic usage, opposed to just aiming at their own feet in panic. Flamethrower, probably a little less damage and make it so an alien can still see what they are doing (as hilarious as it is to see two fades blinking into walls blind and eventually dying haha).
totally agree!
<!--quoteo(post=1807998:date=Nov 21 2010, 01:08 PM:name=TheCaptain)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheCaptain @ Nov 21 2010, 01:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I feel that both sides start with too much carbon, and that players (more marines than kharra) accumulate plasma far too quickly. There doesn't seem to be much tension surrounding res nodes or resources in general. More pressure is placed on the need to fast expand to a new tech node, and to keep spawn rates high. Since res doesn't seem too important, once tech is unlocked, it's pretty much in general use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not played that much but I got the feeling this is true
on the other hand, stupid aliens if they dont care about powernodes...
Hydras can be placed on res nodes -> needs to be destroyable by alien commanders.
lmg and shotgun -fire spread is too much (at least improve it while crouched)
-Agree with the res stuff
The regular lerk spikes seem too weak and the sniper rounds are too powerful. 3 hits to kill or 4 hits to kill would be good. Mix in some spores for a 3 shot kill for some skill factor. A 2 shot 2 second kill for a sniper gun is too much for NS2, especially for a class which can camp any where.
Resource income is just huge.
As a marine with only 2 or 3 RT´s i can buy as much weapons i want.
[...]
The obvious; Grenades need to do friendly fire. Hopefully encourage strategic usage, opposed to just aiming at their own feet in panic. Flamethrower, probably a little less damage and make it so an alien can still see what they are doing (as hilarious as it is to see two fades blinking into walls blind and eventually dying haha).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed completely about the flamethrower, can't see anything <i>at all</i>.
The grenade-launcher...I assume this is what you meant, but imo it should deal (reduced) self-damage, not friendly fire. While self-damage would cut down on people shooting at their feet too much, friendly fire would be asking to get griefed.
you got endless res + replicate u can spam sentrys like hell... if u push dmg even more it gets an even bigger problem... its hard enough to get into a marine base already, if they start to bunker...
and about res: i also noticed that resources are not important at all. you have always too much to spend them all.
about macs again:
in my last game i had a problem with macs (as commander): i could not expand at all, my initial macs got destroyed,
i had no energy and team was screaming "comm, do something!?!?!" macs / drifters should be really made optional,
i prefer to rely on my team building something rather than rely on that they protect my macs / drifters.
another tipp is to hide them in vents -> all builders can go there...
i never had this problem, but on the other hand, im not sleeping, are you?
edit: try to not build an armory first, instead the 2nd cc and an rt... then the armory etc.
Again, would encourage more strategic use of it. That and it would give more roles for other marines who have to assist and support the grenadier.
when the marine commander tries to play "catch the mac". so if you lose all your very vulnerable macs in the beginning -> whats left?
plenty of resources and no way to spend them. so actually sending out your macs and build a second cc immedeately is
the wrong tactic -> you maybe end up losing them all and you are stuck.
i would prefer creating macs would require some amount some resources and build time, rather than waiting for energie.
macs using energy seems just like a quick fix / hack for the mac spam problem
Sentries have a confused design. It's not like they instakill aliens entering their firing arc. If they need commander orders to turn around , that's needless babysitting. Sentries should have a toggle to automatically face nearest threats , even if they rotate slowly enough to be circlestrafed. Right now , any aliens (especially trivial for fades) can sit behind them and negate the whole sentry farm. In NS1 , aliens typically had to destroy a turret or 2 to create a tiny blindspot to exploit. In NS2 you'd need at least 8 sentries in the same room to have them cover each other.
skulk, lerk) very efficiently. so when your standard projectile weapons are not enough to break a defense -> go for GL and/or sieges
You keep it as an attachment but rebalance the damage and reduce the amount carried (say to 2-3).
or
You make it so grenades don't explode on impact with walls or floors. Basically the same model NS1 had. Letting alien players counter manoeuvres them.
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I would also like to see a portable turret for marines that takes up their main weapon slot. Weaker than a sentry but with a 360 firing arc.
marines structures should actually require power from the powernode so that you cant build to many in one node or the node will power down. To stop sentry turret spam.
The alien commander should be able to recycle gorge hydras.
the hydra should have a points cost increase 3x current.
gorge needs at least another structure. The heal srpay should use up the gorges own resource points.
the flamer needs a damage decrease of 1/3 what it is versus alien players.
Better visibilty when on fire to.
Less ronuds with the flamer carried at once.
grenade launcher should bounce grenades like ns1.
I think your right. Their's some things that could tilt the scale in either direction, for example launchable tear-gas (maybe it will prevent a fade from blinking... who knows :P)
But currently i do hate the weak rifle. It needs like 10x more ammo and damage (or maybe it's the lag). We also need that suppressor addon asap to change that firing sound...