Wow. Just wow. We pre-ordered SE so that we could play the alpha. Get in on it a little earlier. Have our special little secret club where we got to play a game a few months before everyone else. Don't even lie guys, that's why you pre-ordered SE. We wanted to play it before everyone else.
We know alpha doesn't mean playable all the time. But, part of alpha does mean playable at least part of the time. Alpha is the "make it playable, add all the features" stage. Beta is the "fix a few small things and balance the game." Yet not one of us really got to "play" the alpha any more than "run around some laggy empty levels full of broken things."
And now you're "going to beta," meaning that anyone who pre-ordered can play.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that the game is finally becoming playable, but I'm not happy about the massive kick in the nuts that you just dealt to the SE owners. We supported you, partly because we wanted the game to be successful, but partly because what you were promising us for our extra support sounded cool too.
We held up our end of the deal, and you did not. I know I won't forget that.
<!--quoteo(post=1806622:date=Nov 19 2010, 07:26 AM:name=Nyf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nyf @ Nov 19 2010, 07:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806622"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We held up our end of the deal, and you did not. I know I won't forget that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Give me a break buddy you did indeed get to test Alpha months before everyone else, and not only that but you can not deny that UW listened to your feedback and even modified the game based on what you guys were saying, whether you agree with that dev process or not it did in fact happen that way.
<!--quoteo(post=1806622:date=Nov 19 2010, 02:26 AM:name=Nyf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nyf @ Nov 19 2010, 02:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806622"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow. Just wow. We pre-ordered SE so that we could play the alpha. Get in on it a little earlier. Have our special little secret club where we got to play a game a few months before everyone else. Don't even lie guys, that's why you pre-ordered SE. We wanted to play it before everyone else.
We know alpha doesn't mean playable all the time. But, part of alpha does mean playable at least part of the time. Alpha is the "make it playable, add all the features" stage. Beta is the "fix a few small things and balance the game." Yet not one of us really got to "play" the alpha any more than "run around some laggy empty levels full of broken things."
And now you're "going to beta," meaning that anyone who pre-ordered can play.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that the game is finally becoming playable, but I'm not happy about the massive kick in the nuts that you just dealt to the SE owners. We supported you, partly because we wanted the game to be successful, but partly because what you were promising us for our extra support sounded cool too.
We held up our end of the deal, and you did not. I know I won't forget that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm going to write up my thoughts on this tomorrow in detail, but I wanted to chime in quickly here.
In a perfect world we would have a ton of cash to do everything "properly". But we're a indie and we don't, so we have to be creative about what we release and when. Maybe in the future our engine will be perfect and we'll have QA folks and we can buy big ads in magazines, but we're not there now.
NS and NS2 have been labors of love for us and so we have worked for many years on NS without charging anything. So we're hoping that you early folks are here to support us and would rather have NS2 be a great game sooner rather than enjoy alpha testing privileges for longer.
<!--quoteo(post=1806639:date=Nov 19 2010, 07:39 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Nov 19 2010, 07:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806639"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a perfect world we would have a ton of cash to do everything "properly". But we're a indie and we don't, so we have to be creative about what we release and when.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good to hear from a dev about the release timing. I also get a similar impression that many of the (sometimes legit) complaints are based on dissapointment about not getting a bigger advantage from alpha privileges over regular orders.
<!--quoteo(post=1806639:date=Nov 19 2010, 01:39 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Nov 19 2010, 01:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806639"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm going to write up my thoughts on this tomorrow in detail, but I wanted to chime in quickly here.
In a perfect world we would have a ton of cash to do everything "properly". But we're a indie and we don't, so we have to be creative about what we release and when. Maybe in the future our engine will be perfect and we'll have QA folks and we can buy big ads in magazines, but we're not there now.
NS and NS2 have been labors of love for us and so we have worked for many years on NS without charging anything. So we're hoping that you early folks are here to support us and would rather have NS2 be a great game sooner rather than enjoy alpha testing privileges for longer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not about Alpha privileges.
I think everyone's just concerned that by labeling it a Beta, you guys think it's more complete (more "ready") than it actually is.
It's silly for anyone to think that we're "holding on to Alpha privileges." If anything, Alpha has been a crucible that we've weathered in order to help support UWE.
Those of us who argue against letting NS2 go Beta already are more concerned over the over-all image of NS2 than anything. But I guess when all is said and done, calling it "Alpha" or "Beta" is irrelevant. All that really matters is how the game turns out in the end.
Flayra was certainly right about one thing. It's got a LOT <b>beta</b> ingame (I had to - *cringe*) - there have been drastic improvements with this patch and I'm actually happy to spend time ingame now, where up to this point I wasn't before.
Fade is beast, please don't change ANYTHING that he does (except maybe increasing the speed slightly of his secondary attack :P).
best build yet. Just had a great time on a listen server, of all places, for about 20 minutes in 3v3 before the server went caput. ns_rockdown is awesome, tram is terrible. tram is laggy like no other, but the game ran great on rockdown.
Fade is a beast, i think the reveal trailer did it a huge injustice. Felt like it would have been infinitely more scary if the power went off in the room, then the fade came in.
<!--quoteo(post=1806520:date=Nov 18 2010, 06:42 PM:name=DaveKap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaveKap @ Nov 18 2010, 06:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806520"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One last point: If UWE has fixed the connection issues and the spam/lag that occurs when too many players are connected or too many hydras/sentries are built, then I believe this game is actually at the proper "playable" level to be beta-ready.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately, they did not fix the connection issues, so this is still an alpha. Oops. :(
<!--quoteo(post=1806680:date=Nov 19 2010, 08:26 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Nov 19 2010, 08:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806680"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fade is a beast, i think the reveal trailer did it a huge injustice. Felt like it would have been infinitely more scary if the power went off in the room, then the fade came in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen to this, I can't wait for NS2HD's video on fade gameplay (soon please!) - I felt like the gameplay of the fade was more impressive than the reveal.
But this is actually a good thing, and kudos to UWE for making such a good implementation of fade - it's such a good drawcard.
<!--quoteo(post=1806687:date=Nov 19 2010, 08:37 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Nov 19 2010, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806687"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fade teleport works pretty well. Having it focus on whichever enemy/structure is nearby.
Although I hope the ghost models for like the hydra and fade blink.. get's more.. ghost like. And not obscuring your vision as it is currently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually prefer it as it is currently. I don't want it to be hard to see.
Tbh considering you can left click to take that model away it works rather well.
i agree that the game is moving to "beta" stage without first maknig the game playable. This in my experience of indie titles is usually a bad sign.
However Alpha means in house testing and beta means testing with others outside of the development team. So technically The alpha was infact a beta but regardless of what it actually is or what people call it the game is still not ready for the majority of people.
<!--quoteo(post=1806708:date=Nov 19 2010, 03:11 AM:name=Eldon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eldon @ Nov 19 2010, 03:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806708"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually prefer it as it is currently. I don't want it to be hard to see.
Tbh considering you can left click to take that model away it works rather well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he's just saying he'd like the fade model to be slightly transparent. I have to agree that a slightly ghost-like image of the fade in the Blink aiming would make it fit a little better. But regardless of if/when that change happens, I'm quite happy with the mechanics so far :D
I do feel kind of silly though... the whole time I was messing around on fade, I thought it changing the direction you were facing coming out of blink was just lag or bugginess. I totally missed that it aims you at a target as you come out of blink. Kinda interesting. I don't mean to make this sound like complaining, but is there a chance we'll see that auto-aim be turned into an option where we can get rid of it? It was rather disorienting at times if the view suddenly changed to a direction I didn't want to face. Not to mention if you're trying to run away, happen to blink right next to a "target," and get screwed up so you can't get away and die. Even if there was a button I could hold when blinking to make sure it does not auto-aim, that would be nice. Again, I'll give the auto-aiming idea a bit more time, but it's just that I know I can aim without needing it, and if I'm forced to use it when it could screw me up, it could turn into a negative experience.
<!--quoteo(post=1806639:date=Nov 19 2010, 02:39 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Nov 19 2010, 02:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806639"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm going to write up my thoughts on this tomorrow in detail, but I wanted to chime in quickly here.
In a perfect world we would have a ton of cash to do everything "properly". But we're a indie and we don't, so we have to be creative about what we release and when. Maybe in the future our engine will be perfect and we'll have QA folks and we can buy big ads in magazines, but we're not there now.
NS and NS2 have been labors of love for us and so we have worked for many years on NS without charging anything. So we're hoping that you early folks are here to support us and would rather have NS2 be a great game sooner rather than enjoy alpha testing privileges for longer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care if they are out of money and need to make more sales and need to let more people in. I do care if they go to 'beta' with a build that will once again turn off the gaming community, like the major engine bugs (netcode) did the alpha testers.
Yes i realize they need money and I don't blame them for a second for continuing to sell the game in its alpha/beta state (the ability to order and get black armor should never have stopped imo) but i do care when the masses of gaming folk give this 'beta' a shot and see a buggy as hell game and get turned off quickly, because its so hard to tell people that don't know UWE (or ns1) that this game is changing quickly and will be refined down to the last cornered edge before its released, because its UWE.
If they don't get beta working well enough to have back to back games spammed with hydras and 12 each side without lag ... they are going to alienate a lot of the people that don't have ns1 as their guiding light. Those people will see ns2 and say, omg that's horrible, walk away, tell their friends and have no faith they'll fix it up.
Gamers have been software dev studio customers long enough to know that if a game is in beta, it should be mostly playable in its full state minus a few bugs and features here and there. They expect and almost complete product. They're going to have a more angry crowd then the alpha testers because beta purchasers wont wait around another 6months for them to fix engine basics like netcode - having more then 8 in a server and more then 12 hydras in a game.
The fact they used the fade reveal as a money puller is smart and very good to see them doing... the fact they are moving to the term 'beta' with what we have at the moment... i don't feel is smart at all.
PS. Fade reveal movie was EPIC. Your artist needs a huuuge hi-five. Rivels Blizzards CGI. Smooth animation, long playtime, great textures, suspense. The artistry is really something to be equally as proud of as the engine and the gameplay work so far.
Hot CoffeeJoin Date: 2010-11-03Member: 74744Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1806715:date=Nov 19 2010, 04:33 AM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Nov 19 2010, 04:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806715"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do feel kind of silly though... the whole time I was messing around on fade, I thought it changing the direction you were facing coming out of blink was just lag or bugginess. I totally missed that it aims you at a target as you come out of blink. Kinda interesting. I don't mean to make this sound like complaining, but is there a chance we'll see that auto-aim be turned into an option where we can get rid of it? It was rather disorienting at times if the view suddenly changed to a direction I didn't want to face. Not to mention if you're trying to run away, happen to blink right next to a "target," and get screwed up so you can't get away and die. Even if there was a button I could hold when blinking to make sure it does not auto-aim, that would be nice. Again, I'll give the auto-aiming idea a bit more time, but it's just that I know I can aim without needing it, and if I'm forced to use it when it could screw me up, it could turn into a negative experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it will just take some getting used to and possibly some tuning on the dev side (I haven't tested it in combat yet). I would imagine facing nearby targets could speed up how fast you can get in and out while doing damage if you were used to it (it would eliminate having to find the target after the blink, you'd just have to account for that and already be ready to find your exit that much earlier). I could see there being issues with how far people think they should have to be from a target before the contextual facing kicks in...that may take some tuning but like I said, haven't tested the combat yet.
Going to beta eh? Well whatever. I don't really agree but have at it. I just want to know where was the heads up on this? I visited the site after being gone for just a short while and all of a sudden there is another attempted round of sales. Did I miss a post explaining this would happen or did we really get blind-sighted?
<!--quoteo(post=1806734:date=Nov 19 2010, 05:28 AM:name=Squawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squawk @ Nov 19 2010, 05:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Going to beta eh? Well whatever. I don't really agree but have at it. I just want to know where was the heads up on this? I visited the site after being gone for just a short while and all of a sudden there is another attempted round of sales. Did I miss a post explaining this would happen or did we really get blind-sighted?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Man, I check this site most every day when I'm doing my news rounds, and I had NO idea this was coming. I'd love to see the game playable in beta, but it wasn't on build 154 for me. I do hope they don't get slammed in the press and have the community evaporate.
IF u dont spam hydras/sentrys, its pretty good playable (i just played for nearly an hour.) IT feels like a closed beta to me, and guess what? it is a CLOSED BETA. Its not worse than a AAA publishers closed beta.
DI doesn't need to be in before beta.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They made DI seem like it was HUGE for aliens. I remember what was it...like two years ago that it was announced as a major gameplay and it won't even be found in any shape or form in the beta? Everyone has said what I think: not ready for beta, running out of money, upset and just shocked. I am upset but not furious because the money was more for support. However it does feel a bit more like getting stabbed in the chest instead of the back.
Maybe they should think of including something extra for the people that forked $40 bucks months ago on a game that honestly was all talk and almost nothing to show for itself, and again...doesn't even have the super important dynamic infestation. I have not been able to play a single real game in the alpha and they chose to go for beta. This reminds me of the 'Mission Accomplished' banner from Bush honestly haha. Total $@*$&! moment.
<!--quoteo(post=1806772:date=Nov 19 2010, 01:01 PM:name=Phaeton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phaeton @ Nov 19 2010, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806772"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They made DI seem like it was HUGE for aliens. I remember what was it...like two years ago that it was announced as a major gameplay and it won't even be found in any shape or form in the beta? Everyone has said what I think: not ready for beta, running out of money, upset and just shocked. I am upset but not furious because the money was more for support. However it does feel a bit more like getting stabbed in the chest instead of the back.
Maybe they should think of including something extra for the people that forked $40 bucks months ago on a game that honestly was all talk and almost nothing to show for itself, and again...doesn't even have the super important dynamic infestation. I have not been able to play a single real game in the alpha and they chose to go for beta. This reminds me of the 'Mission Accomplished' banner from Bush honestly haha. Total $@*$&! moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Squal like a pig said that Infestation will be added "in some form" before Beta is over, so you will be able to playtest it before the game is released.
<!--quoteo(post=1806772:date=Nov 19 2010, 07:01 AM:name=Phaeton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phaeton @ Nov 19 2010, 07:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806772"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They made DI seem like it was HUGE for aliens. I remember what was it...like two years ago that it was announced as a major gameplay and it won't even be found in any shape or form in the beta? Everyone has said what I think: not ready for beta, running out of money, upset and just shocked. I am upset but not furious because the money was more for support. However it does feel a bit more like getting stabbed in the chest instead of the back.
Maybe they should think of including something extra for the people that forked $40 bucks months ago on a game that honestly was all talk and almost nothing to show for itself, and again...doesn't even have the super important dynamic infestation. I have not been able to play a single real game in the alpha and they chose to go for beta. This reminds me of the 'Mission Accomplished' banner from Bush honestly haha. Total $@*$&! moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, Onos isn't even in yet, let alone most of the weapons and abilities. DI, while it is important, is definitely lower down on the list than those other items.
<!--quoteo(post=1806671:date=Nov 19 2010, 07:06 AM:name=Ortzinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ortzinator @ Nov 19 2010, 07:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806671"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not about Alpha privileges.
I think everyone's just concerned that by labeling it a Beta, you guys think it's more complete (more "ready") than it actually is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah well who here has honestly been able to play a full game once? I can't even make a local server and try it out myself. Even NS2HD (which to me is one of the largest marketing mediums that the game has so far) expresses that he can't review material on how bad the lag is. People are selfish and we did give the 40 bucks in part for support but also to get something back for it. I think I can safely say that at least the majority of players have not been able to have any real alpha gameplay.
Just a courtesy post or something would have been nice instead of just "hey! beta! yeah...thanks....bye!" We are all smart and know what is going on, just the whole avoiding the issue is what bothered me. I liked that Flayra just posted about it now and explained it a bit, but that should have been done previously. I mean we get a lot of cool insight into the development process but on something so big as a beta announcement it was just thrown out there. So just keep what you were doing, and good luck on the Beta (although to me the Alpha did not live to its full potential). We want NS2 to be successful, we are supportive, and we did show that support in both time and money.
<!--quoteo(post=1806780:date=Nov 19 2010, 01:10 PM:name=Iced_Eagle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Iced_Eagle @ Nov 19 2010, 01:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806780"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dude, Onos isn't even in yet, let alone most of the weapons and abilities. DI, while it is important, is definitely lower down on the list than those other items.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought DI was supposed to be a major gameplay, almost to the point of having a new alien commander. Maybe I am mistaken but that was the impression that I got. It was supposed to act on buildings, affect abilities and the flamethrower was supposed to counter it and etc. Just seems much more important than adding an HMG or alien structure to me if it is something that was supposed to affect the whole gameplay mechanic. And yeah the Onos isn't even in yet...man I'm scared for that Beta haha.
It was $40 guys... most here have spent much more than that on alcohol on a single night out. If you signed a contract with UWE stating that they had to provide a fully playable beta, then you have something to complain about. You didn't..
I'm not saying these things out of an unfounded sense of entitlement for my special edition alpha. Rather, I just wanted to look out for the players might buy into this thinking they'll get something playable right now.
If UW needs the money to continue development, well then they can make the choice to go public beta for more buy ins before its ready. It's very misleading, but sadly necessary to get them the money.
UW should really focus on getting the game to a point where a full server can play without any issues. On the plus side, getting this kind of technical back end development out of the way early sets them up for a smoother real beta experience later.
Hey people, I pre-ordered beta and I'm not really an active forum guy. I loved Natural-Selection #1 and I'm amped about the beta.
Reading this thread, I get what people are saying: When I had the option of choosing Alpha or Beta, I thought "hmmmmm..... do I want access to an unplayable Alpha in which I would have to make bug reports etc. or do I want to have fun in a Beta a couple of months before it gets released?" This was my mentality.
I am just finishing downloading the Beta and I'm about to hop on. I hope it's half as good as the first game. Either way Flayra, I love your work and understand great things take great time.
Comments
We pre-ordered SE so that we could play the alpha. Get in on it a little earlier. Have our special little secret club where we got to play a game a few months before everyone else. Don't even lie guys, that's why you pre-ordered SE. We wanted to play it before everyone else.
We know alpha doesn't mean playable all the time. But, part of alpha does mean playable at least part of the time. Alpha is the "make it playable, add all the features" stage. Beta is the "fix a few small things and balance the game." Yet not one of us really got to "play" the alpha any more than "run around some laggy empty levels full of broken things."
And now you're "going to beta," meaning that anyone who pre-ordered can play.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that the game is finally becoming playable, but I'm not happy about the massive kick in the nuts that you just dealt to the SE owners.
We supported you, partly because we wanted the game to be successful, but partly because what you were promising us for our extra support sounded cool too.
We held up our end of the deal, and you did not. I know I won't forget that.
Give me a break buddy you did indeed get to test Alpha months before everyone else, and not only that but you can not deny that UW listened to your feedback and even modified the game based on what you guys were saying, whether you agree with that dev process or not it did in fact happen that way.
We pre-ordered SE so that we could play the alpha. Get in on it a little earlier. Have our special little secret club where we got to play a game a few months before everyone else. Don't even lie guys, that's why you pre-ordered SE. We wanted to play it before everyone else.
We know alpha doesn't mean playable all the time. But, part of alpha does mean playable at least part of the time. Alpha is the "make it playable, add all the features" stage. Beta is the "fix a few small things and balance the game." Yet not one of us really got to "play" the alpha any more than "run around some laggy empty levels full of broken things."
And now you're "going to beta," meaning that anyone who pre-ordered can play.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that the game is finally becoming playable, but I'm not happy about the massive kick in the nuts that you just dealt to the SE owners.
We supported you, partly because we wanted the game to be successful, but partly because what you were promising us for our extra support sounded cool too.
We held up our end of the deal, and you did not. I know I won't forget that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i have my black armor. haters gonna hate.
In a perfect world we would have a ton of cash to do everything "properly". But we're a indie and we don't, so we have to be creative about what we release and when. Maybe in the future our engine will be perfect and we'll have QA folks and we can buy big ads in magazines, but we're not there now.
NS and NS2 have been labors of love for us and so we have worked for many years on NS without charging anything. So we're hoping that you early folks are here to support us and would rather have NS2 be a great game sooner rather than enjoy alpha testing privileges for longer.
Good to hear from a dev about the release timing. I also get a similar impression that many of the (sometimes legit) complaints are based on dissapointment about not getting a bigger advantage from alpha privileges over regular orders.
If there was no alpha access I wouldn't have cared. I got more fun out of NS1 than I did many other games that I paid for. Its the least I could do.
In a perfect world we would have a ton of cash to do everything "properly". But we're a indie and we don't, so we have to be creative about what we release and when. Maybe in the future our engine will be perfect and we'll have QA folks and we can buy big ads in magazines, but we're not there now.
NS and NS2 have been labors of love for us and so we have worked for many years on NS without charging anything. So we're hoping that you early folks are here to support us and would rather have NS2 be a great game sooner rather than enjoy alpha testing privileges for longer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not about Alpha privileges.
I think everyone's just concerned that by labeling it a Beta, you guys think it's more complete (more "ready") than it actually is.
Those of us who argue against letting NS2 go Beta already are more concerned over the over-all image of NS2 than anything. But I guess when all is said and done, calling it "Alpha" or "Beta" is irrelevant. All that really matters is how the game turns out in the end.
Keep up the good work, guys!
Fade is beast, please don't change ANYTHING that he does (except maybe increasing the speed slightly of his secondary attack :P).
Fade is a beast, i think the reveal trailer did it a huge injustice. Felt like it would have been infinitely more scary if the power went off in the room, then the fade came in.
Unfortunately, they did not fix the connection issues, so this is still an alpha. Oops. :(
Amen to this, I can't wait for NS2HD's video on fade gameplay (soon please!) - I felt like the gameplay of the fade was more impressive than the reveal.
But this is actually a good thing, and kudos to UWE for making such a good implementation of fade - it's such a good drawcard.
Although I hope the ghost models for like the hydra and fade blink.. get's more.. ghost like. And not obscuring your vision as it is currently.
Although I hope the ghost models for like the hydra and fade blink.. get's more.. ghost like. And not obscuring your vision as it is currently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually prefer it as it is currently. I don't want it to be hard to see.
Tbh considering you can left click to take that model away it works rather well.
However Alpha means in house testing and beta means testing with others outside of the development team. So technically The alpha was infact a beta but regardless of what it actually is or what people call it the game is still not ready for the majority of people.
Tbh considering you can left click to take that model away it works rather well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he's just saying he'd like the fade model to be slightly transparent. I have to agree that a slightly ghost-like image of the fade in the Blink aiming would make it fit a little better. But regardless of if/when that change happens, I'm quite happy with the mechanics so far :D
I do feel kind of silly though... the whole time I was messing around on fade, I thought it changing the direction you were facing coming out of blink was just lag or bugginess. I totally missed that it aims you at a target as you come out of blink. Kinda interesting.
I don't mean to make this sound like complaining, but is there a chance we'll see that auto-aim be turned into an option where we can get rid of it? It was rather disorienting at times if the view suddenly changed to a direction I didn't want to face. Not to mention if you're trying to run away, happen to blink right next to a "target," and get screwed up so you can't get away and die. Even if there was a button I could hold when blinking to make sure it does not auto-aim, that would be nice.
Again, I'll give the auto-aiming idea a bit more time, but it's just that I know I can aim without needing it, and if I'm forced to use it when it could screw me up, it could turn into a negative experience.
In a perfect world we would have a ton of cash to do everything "properly". But we're a indie and we don't, so we have to be creative about what we release and when. Maybe in the future our engine will be perfect and we'll have QA folks and we can buy big ads in magazines, but we're not there now.
NS and NS2 have been labors of love for us and so we have worked for many years on NS without charging anything. So we're hoping that you early folks are here to support us and would rather have NS2 be a great game sooner rather than enjoy alpha testing privileges for longer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care if they are out of money and need to make more sales and need to let more people in. I do care if they go to 'beta' with a build that will once again turn off the gaming community, like the major engine bugs (netcode) did the alpha testers.
Yes i realize they need money and I don't blame them for a second for continuing to sell the game in its alpha/beta state (the ability to order and get black armor should never have stopped imo) but i do care when the masses of gaming folk give this 'beta' a shot and see a buggy as hell game and get turned off quickly, because its so hard to tell people that don't know UWE (or ns1) that this game is changing quickly and will be refined down to the last cornered edge before its released, because its UWE.
If they don't get beta working well enough to have back to back games spammed with hydras and 12 each side without lag ... they are going to alienate a lot of the people that don't have ns1 as their guiding light. Those people will see ns2 and say, omg that's horrible, walk away, tell their friends and have no faith they'll fix it up.
Gamers have been software dev studio customers long enough to know that if a game is in beta, it should be mostly playable in its full state minus a few bugs and features here and there. They expect and almost complete product. They're going to have a more angry crowd then the alpha testers because beta purchasers wont wait around another 6months for them to fix engine basics like netcode - having more then 8 in a server and more then 12 hydras in a game.
The fact they used the fade reveal as a money puller is smart and very good to see them doing... the fact they are moving to the term 'beta' with what we have at the moment... i don't feel is smart at all.
PS. Fade reveal movie was EPIC. Your artist needs a huuuge hi-five. Rivels Blizzards CGI. Smooth animation, long playtime, great textures, suspense. The artistry is really something to be equally as proud of as the engine and the gameplay work so far.
I don't mean to make this sound like complaining, but is there a chance we'll see that auto-aim be turned into an option where we can get rid of it? It was rather disorienting at times if the view suddenly changed to a direction I didn't want to face. Not to mention if you're trying to run away, happen to blink right next to a "target," and get screwed up so you can't get away and die. Even if there was a button I could hold when blinking to make sure it does not auto-aim, that would be nice.
Again, I'll give the auto-aiming idea a bit more time, but it's just that I know I can aim without needing it, and if I'm forced to use it when it could screw me up, it could turn into a negative experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it will just take some getting used to and possibly some tuning on the dev side (I haven't tested it in combat yet). I would imagine facing nearby targets could speed up how fast you can get in and out while doing damage if you were used to it (it would eliminate having to find the target after the blink, you'd just have to account for that and already be ready to find your exit that much earlier). I could see there being issues with how far people think they should have to be from a target before the contextual facing kicks in...that may take some tuning but like I said, haven't tested the combat yet.
Man, I check this site most every day when I'm doing my news rounds, and I had NO idea this was coming. I'd love to see the game playable in beta, but it wasn't on build 154 for me. I do hope they don't get slammed in the press and have the community evaporate.
IT feels like a closed beta to me, and guess what? it is a CLOSED BETA. Its not worse than a AAA publishers closed beta.
DI doesn't need to be in before beta.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They made DI seem like it was HUGE for aliens. I remember what was it...like two years ago that it was announced as a major gameplay and it won't even be found in any shape or form in the beta? Everyone has said what I think: not ready for beta, running out of money, upset and just shocked. I am upset but not furious because the money was more for support. However it does feel a bit more like getting stabbed in the chest instead of the back.
Maybe they should think of including something extra for the people that forked $40 bucks months ago on a game that honestly was all talk and almost nothing to show for itself, and again...doesn't even have the super important dynamic infestation. I have not been able to play a single real game in the alpha and they chose to go for beta. This reminds me of the 'Mission Accomplished' banner from Bush honestly haha. Total $@*$&! moment.
Maybe they should think of including something extra for the people that forked $40 bucks months ago on a game that honestly was all talk and almost nothing to show for itself, and again...doesn't even have the super important dynamic infestation. I have not been able to play a single real game in the alpha and they chose to go for beta. This reminds me of the 'Mission Accomplished' banner from Bush honestly haha. Total $@*$&! moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Squal like a pig said that Infestation will be added "in some form" before Beta is over, so you will be able to playtest it before the game is released.
Maybe they should think of including something extra for the people that forked $40 bucks months ago on a game that honestly was all talk and almost nothing to show for itself, and again...doesn't even have the super important dynamic infestation. I have not been able to play a single real game in the alpha and they chose to go for beta. This reminds me of the 'Mission Accomplished' banner from Bush honestly haha. Total $@*$&! moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, Onos isn't even in yet, let alone most of the weapons and abilities. DI, while it is important, is definitely lower down on the list than those other items.
I think everyone's just concerned that by labeling it a Beta, you guys think it's more complete (more "ready") than it actually is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah well who here has honestly been able to play a full game once? I can't even make a local server and try it out myself. Even NS2HD (which to me is one of the largest marketing mediums that the game has so far) expresses that he can't review material on how bad the lag is. People are selfish and we did give the 40 bucks in part for support but also to get something back for it. I think I can safely say that at least the majority of players have not been able to have any real alpha gameplay.
Just a courtesy post or something would have been nice instead of just "hey! beta! yeah...thanks....bye!" We are all smart and know what is going on, just the whole avoiding the issue is what bothered me. I liked that Flayra just posted about it now and explained it a bit, but that should have been done previously. I mean we get a lot of cool insight into the development process but on something so big as a beta announcement it was just thrown out there. So just keep what you were doing, and good luck on the Beta (although to me the Alpha did not live to its full potential). We want NS2 to be successful, we are supportive, and we did show that support in both time and money.
I thought DI was supposed to be a major gameplay, almost to the point of having a new alien commander. Maybe I am mistaken but that was the impression that I got. It was supposed to act on buildings, affect abilities and the flamethrower was supposed to counter it and etc. Just seems much more important than adding an HMG or alien structure to me if it is something that was supposed to affect the whole gameplay mechanic. And yeah the Onos isn't even in yet...man I'm scared for that Beta haha.
Chill.
If UW needs the money to continue development, well then they can make the choice to go public beta for more buy ins before its ready. It's very misleading, but sadly necessary to get them the money.
UW should really focus on getting the game to a point where a full server can play without any issues. On the plus side, getting this kind of technical back end development out of the way early sets them up for a smoother real beta experience later.
I loved Natural-Selection #1 and I'm amped about the beta.
Reading this thread, I get what people are saying: When I had the option of choosing Alpha or Beta, I thought "hmmmmm..... do I want access to an unplayable Alpha in which I would have to make bug reports etc. or do I want to have fun in a Beta a couple of months before it gets released?" This was my mentality.
I am just finishing downloading the Beta and I'm about to hop on. I hope it's half as good as the first game.
Either way Flayra, I love your work and understand great things take great time.
/fingers crossed