<!--quoteo(post=1806444:date=Nov 19 2010, 01:30 AM:name=Ongre)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ongre @ Nov 19 2010, 01:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm personally confident about this decission. I saw big industry games in beta state with a worse playable-state than NS2 ( in alpha ) before. If people don't understand what's a closed-beta, I don't care, I'm happy for UWE they've reached this millestone and keep up the good work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
which games are you talking about ? I was in ETQW beta and it was perfectly playable even with the crappy computer I had at that times.
I agree with those above who are not agree with NS2 can be playable as a Beta. It needs a bit more time may be 3-4 more updates.
But UWE choice this one cuz I think they need money and more incomers but if the game is not ready please go Alpha.
I dont think it is playable now as listed below; No one plays cuz it is not playable, Many big bugs still exist, Still there is unknown tech tree, New features Whip, Fade, Masc are not tested in any alpha update before Waypoints and bots are not working Less official maps bla bla bla....
<!--quoteo(post=1806444:date=Nov 19 2010, 01:30 AM:name=Ongre)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ongre @ Nov 19 2010, 01:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm personally confident about this decission. I saw big industry games in beta state with a worse playable-state than NS2 ( in alpha ) before. If people don't understand what's a closed-beta, I don't care, I'm happy for UWE they've reached this millestone and keep up the good work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Yes the game needs more work but it surely is playable now, I like it!
<a href="http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/progress" target="_blank">http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/progress</a> Server performance is fixed according to this, "could not connect" also is next to be fixed. Can't wait for 155!
<!--quoteo(post=1806445:date=Nov 18 2010, 07:37 PM:name=Karba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karba @ Nov 18 2010, 07:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->which games are you talking about ? I was in ETQW beta and it was perfectly playable even with the crappy computer I had at that times.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A lot of games license out working, tested engines. NS2 has been developed (with its current engine) for much less time than most games that are entering beta stage, and it's also not using a tested engine. So naturally it's not going to be in the same state.
The fact is, they just don't have enough money to go through a normal development cycle, they have to push it out as fast as they can.
First of all to all the complainers. UWE has a reason do this step and Im happy their going their way despite of all the naysayers in this community. UWE is an unconvential gamedesigner with limited resources so they have to go an unconventional way. Just to make that clear Im more than happy theyre doing it this way. If they couldnt continue testing properly or maybe even couldnt afford development any longer would you really want them to do not make that step just to fit in a alpha/beta-definition you read on wikipedia? No matter what their reasons are you should not judge it that fast. Even if they do it just to develop a game in anotherway than the "normal" standard-studio would do - I say "yeah, do it".
Sentences like "... I wont recommend this game to my friends at this stage..." I dont understand. You paid 40 bugs for this game and then prefer to see it die instead of help raising more funds to make it as good as possible...
NS2 is gonna be great. I understand your fear our beloved sequel wont come to life. Just have faith in UWE, they will make it. Having faith is your only opportunity, if you havent you do more damage than the criticism helps. Either UWE will release NS2 or noone will. Keep that in mind.
And now lets celebrate this hell of a teaser and welcome the new testers.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You paid 40 bugs for this game and then prefer to see it die instead of help raising more funds to make it as good as possible...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
40 bugs? i have to admit i lol'd at your typo.
game definitely doesn't feel beta-ready. UWE's top priority right now should be stabilizing the network performance and server performance...having random server crashes like in 154 is not going to endear you with preorder-ers. there's so much that still needs to be done before the game is playable on a wide scale - my system is capable of playing it at a decent framerate, but it's also got much higher specs than the average...
UWE, please update your minimum system requirements, otherwise you're going to get a lot of negative feedback.
<!--quoteo(post=1806297:date=Nov 18 2010, 08:37 PM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Nov 18 2010, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806297"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i had no problem putting out the 40 bucks to support the game, but logging in for several minutes after each patch to find out i could still barely test it didn't feel like the exclusive alpha testing the package provided. o well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ditto. Feel the same way.
haha I really thought the beta would act as damage control for the bad PR the alpha delivered. I feel like a well polished beta with the important bugs (server lag, hydra lag, ready room freezing, input lag, fps drops) hammered out might have turned out very well for the company, but instead the players who bought the alpha get 5 unplayable releases of disappointment and everyone gets discouraged. Most nights I checked, there were probably 5 people max in the whole world actually playing the alpha at any given time according to the server browser. It is not fun to play because of these bugs, and it looks like the same will be sure for the beta.
I still play NS every day, yet I still can't even recommend NS2 to my friends. Way to ruin your chance at a turnaround in player interest.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1806453:date=Nov 18 2010, 08:45 PM:name=nUfl0w)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nUfl0w @ Nov 18 2010, 08:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First of all to all the complainers. UWE has a reason do this step and Im happy their going their way despite of all the naysayers in this community.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You quoted me further down; but just to clarify - I'm not complaining and all teary about the state of the game.
I've enjoyed playing it so far; and its coming along nicely - I can see how this game is going to be very fun, even from just having a few moments of game play with a few other players.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If they couldnt continue testing properly or maybe even couldnt afford development any longer would you really want them to do not make that step just to fit in a alpha/beta-definition you read on wikipedia?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't need to read Wikipedia to know what the definition of an alpha and beta are; I'm a developer myself and have participated in several game alpha's and beta's before.
I am not trying to tell UWE how to run their company (that would be ridiculous!); I am just making an observation on the announcement of the beta - like everyone else here.
I am not complaining; I am highlighting the fact that just marking something as 'beta' does not make it as such.
Take Team Fortress 2 for example, that was initially released as a beta before going live. This game was playable; and people understood they could be playing.
If you use a term like 'beta' expect to have people think 'oh its going to be playable but rough around the edges'. When someone then tries to play with 2-3 other players in a server and lags so much that its unplayable; they will think they have wasted their time and it would not meet my understanding and expectations of a 'beta' release of software.
If what they really wanted to do was expand their player base to more alpha testers; then perhaps they could have announced the expansion of alpha testing instead of conducting a 'beta' that is just a new label on the same underlying patch so far. That way they are still letting people know is not in a beta state.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sentences like "... I wont recommend this game to my friends at this stage..." I dont understand. You paid 40 bugs for this game and then prefer to see it die instead of help raising more funds to make it as good as possible...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think thats a fair thing to say at all. Who said I would prefer to see the game die than succeed? Rubbish.
That was constructive criticism, I am letting you know that I would not tell a friend to go and buy the game yet, because its not yet in a playable state.
If they were an avid NS fan, I would probably recommend it - its coming along great. If they had never played NS, I wouldn't tell them to fork over money today and expect them to have some fun tomorrow - its not completely playable in the sense it still hitches/jitters and this distracts from the game play.
As a business owner; I would value being told what a sample of my customers (you and me differ, which is great) are feeling in response to announcements so I could act accordingly. It would be awful for me to say 'this is great' but on the other hand not recommend the game to anyone because I secretly think the game is too laggy to play.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 is gonna be great. I understand your fear our beloved sequel wont come to life. Just have faith in UWE, they will make it. Having faith is your only opportunity, if you havent you do more damage than the criticism helps. Either UWE will release NS2 or noone will. Keep that in mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't need to have faith; I know they will get there - from watching the development of this game from years ago and seeing the work they have done so far, I am very confident they will ship this game and that it will be insanely fun and atmospheric (something I think other games are lacking).
Not a single part of me want's to see this game fail in any way; I am simply commenting on my personal gut reactions to the beta announcement by using reason and expressing my concerns over the announcement of a beta when it contradicts my conditioned understanding of what a 'beta' game should feel like.
UWE are professionals and if I were on their team; I would appreciate reading the varied reactions to the announcement in this thread and the reasoning behind them - it would be irresponsible of me I would think to convey I am confident in their 'beta' tag when I feel and act toward it in another way entirely.
I am looking forward to seeing this game continue to get there; I really am, its going to be awesome.
I just think that to justify a beta tag, the lag should be gone, so that new player's initial first impressions of the game are not a laggy and unplayable experience at 2-6+ players, but a smooth game with work-in-progress features that a beta tag would imply.
wouldnt even recommend it to an avid player. told my buddy all about it already and he was into NS more then me. i probably shouldn't have told him about it cause now he has no interest in the game because of the issues i told him about. So ya its completely understandable not to want to recommend this game to anyone right now.
Like many people here have already expressed, I don't think any of us were really expecting a Beta to fall on our laps today. With each build I can see the game grow bit by bit and it's a wonderful process.
What bothers me is that UWE, AFAIK, didn't exactly give us any notification of this or at least post some more details. I wouldn't expect them to tell us if they have financial problems or not, but I would have liked to see them say something about the lag and fps and if it will be fixed by the time the beta starts. Because right now, other bugs aside, it seems that the underlying issue for most people is that people can't join servers, the lag from gameplay and connecting players is a killer, and the fps hasn't quite made the mighty bar of standards. Sure, the pivotal tracker gives us an idea, but with such a big announcements as this, I was hoping for some feedback from UWE rather than have us scratch are heads and ask "why?".
<!--quoteo(post=1806465:date=Nov 18 2010, 09:16 PM:name=Plasma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Plasma @ Nov 18 2010, 09:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*snip* I just think that to justify a beta tag, the lag should be gone, so that new player's initial first impressions of the game are not a laggy and unplayable experience at 2-6+ players, but a smooth game with work-in-progress features that a beta tag would imply.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This pretty much sums up my thoughts on pushing for beta.
I've supported NS2 thus far and I'm not about to stop, but considering multiplayer performance at the moment it does feel premature.
<!--quoteo(post=1806483:date=Nov 18 2010, 08:48 PM:name=GrapeVine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrapeVine @ Nov 18 2010, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was surprised to hear about the beta, but if they can fix the networking issues then in my opinion it will be playable enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wasn't playable in day 1 of alpha, still ain't playable and i don't expect it to change overnight... beta comes out tomorrow and a whole lot of people are going to be disappointed.
STOP thinking of this as a beta. its a closed beta. so basically only the ppl that have pre ordered get to play. Think of this as an ALPHA part 2 or an alpha 2.0. If its only going to be the extra 5% of people playing i wouldnt worry about people gettin turned off the game.
Alpha - done Closed Beta - now (for 0.5-1 years?) Open Beta - DI, all features in and tweaking - or skip this stage, do it all in closed beta and move to Gold / Launch
Has everyone forgot that than NS1 was in beta for a few months before they started releasing it in 1.0, 3.0, etc ? And you may also recall that it went from "OK" to "Forever Favourite" ?
Worry is justified, however, relax - they will be able to focus now (on certain complaints) they have passed a milestone.
Same as this: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->STOP thinking of this as a beta. its a closed beta. so basically only the ppl that have pre ordered get to play. Think of this as an ALPHA part 2 or an alpha 2.0.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1806498:date=Nov 19 2010, 02:03 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Nov 19 2010, 02:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've fixed tons and tons of stuff for the beta. Give it a shot before you say it's not ready!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm very happy with the ongoing development of the game. Each patch has made it better. 6 player games are actually playable and fun. Can't wait for what the next patch might bring.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1806505:date=Nov 18 2010, 10:11 PM:name=Eldon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eldon @ Nov 18 2010, 10:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806505"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the next patch makes it playable then bring on beta :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>+1</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo(post=1806491:date=Nov 18 2010, 05:57 PM:name=resresres)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (resresres @ Nov 18 2010, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806491"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alpha - done Closed Beta - now (for 0.5-1 years?) Open Beta - DI, all features in and tweaking - or skip this stage, do it all in closed beta and move to Gold / Launch
Has everyone forgot that than NS1 was in beta for a few months before they started releasing it in 1.0, 3.0, etc ? And you may also recall that it went from "OK" to "Forever Favourite" ?
Worry is justified, however, relax - they will be able to focus now (on certain complaints) they have passed a milestone.
Same as this:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
did u forget that NS1 was a mod not a stand alone game?
<!--quoteo(post=1806498:date=Nov 18 2010, 07:03 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Nov 18 2010, 07:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We've fixed tons and tons of stuff for the beta. Give it a shot before you say it's not ready!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it works then by all means come back and say I told you so, but we've heard this with nearly every patch. I don't even have confidence that the beta will make it tomorrow just from the record of every single patch delay.
<!--quoteo(post=1806503:date=Nov 19 2010, 02:11 AM:name=FuzionMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuzionMonkey @ Nov 19 2010, 02:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1806503"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How is it cryptic at all. You can see everything that is on the bug tracker. You can see there are a number of performance fixes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait. I'm not complaining, but:
Performance has improved, but not drastically enough to make it really playable. 155 (Beta slated for tomorrow) has been the shortest period between patches, so what makes you think that 4 days has made a 'huge' difference.
Either Flayra was being cryptic about what we are going to see tomorrow (major additions, much more than expected) or we are going to see additions but not with the performance increase we are hoping for.
Hi guys, been reading the forums and watching the progress page for a long time now. Loved NS1 to death and have honestly never played a better online FPS. I'm more excited about Ns2 than I was about SC2, and that's REALLY saying something.
Just wanted to add some thoughts:
Look at the progress since the first release of Alpha, there was a 3 month gap after the first patch, the next one came few weeks later, this one is a week after the last. The time between patches is shrinking exponentially and each one has major improvements to the FPS and gameplay. There are big network/server issues that UWE couldn't have been aware of through internal testing that became apparent once "real world" tests were done. This is what an Alpha build is for.
It doesn't feel like a "beta" yet (the main issue seems to be where 6+ players overload the server) but then "beta" means different things to different people. The important thing is not the name of the development phase but the rate of development.
Yes there are a lot of people with connection issues, yes it seems impossible to play on server with more than a few people: but progress is being made in leaps and bounds and if you've had the good fortune to join a server and play with a small number of players then you'll have had a flavour of what NS2 is going to be like (it's ###### awesome btw :D).
I'm just worried about using the word "Beta" for the next release/sales push. At the moment the pre-alpha people are (mostly) those that played and love NS1 and happily bought into the Alpha just to say "thanks" for the many hours of fun that we got from NS1. "Beta" implies a more stable game than the one we saw in 154. I'm hoping "Server performance - Delivered" progress status is going to be the improvement that finally gets us there.
If UWE needs funds to carry on working on NS2 then at this time more than any it's up to the hardcore fans, who sometimes seem to be the most negative, to be ambassadors instead.
Comments
which games are you talking about ? I was in ETQW beta and it was perfectly playable even with the crappy computer I had at that times.
It needs a bit more time may be 3-4 more updates.
But UWE choice this one cuz I think they need money and more incomers but if the game is not ready please go Alpha.
I dont think it is playable now as listed below;
No one plays cuz it is not playable,
Many big bugs still exist,
Still there is unknown tech tree,
New features Whip, Fade, Masc are not tested in any alpha update before
Waypoints and bots are not working
Less official maps
bla bla bla....
+1
Yes the game needs more work but it surely is playable now, I like it!
<a href="http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/progress" target="_blank">http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/progress</a>
Server performance is fixed according to this, "could not connect" also is next to be fixed.
Can't wait for 155!
A lot of games license out working, tested engines. NS2 has been developed (with its current engine) for much less time than most games that are entering beta stage, and it's also not using a tested engine. So naturally it's not going to be in the same state.
The fact is, they just don't have enough money to go through a normal development cycle, they have to push it out as fast as they can.
UWE is an unconvential gamedesigner with limited resources so they have to go an unconventional way. Just to make that clear Im more than happy theyre doing it this way.
If they couldnt continue testing properly or maybe even couldnt afford development any longer would you really want them to do not make that step just to fit in a alpha/beta-definition you read on wikipedia?
No matter what their reasons are you should not judge it that fast. Even if they do it just to develop a game in anotherway than the "normal" standard-studio would do - I say "yeah, do it".
Sentences like "... I wont recommend this game to my friends at this stage..." I dont understand. You paid 40 bugs for this game and then prefer to see it die instead of help raising more funds to make it as good as possible...
NS2 is gonna be great. I understand your fear our beloved sequel wont come to life. Just have faith in UWE, they will make it. Having faith is your only opportunity, if you havent you do more damage than the criticism helps. Either UWE will release NS2 or noone will. Keep that in mind.
And now lets celebrate this hell of a teaser and welcome the new testers.
40 bugs? i have to admit i lol'd at your typo.
game definitely doesn't feel beta-ready. UWE's top priority right now should be stabilizing the network performance and server performance...having random server crashes like in 154 is not going to endear you with preorder-ers. there's so much that still needs to be done before the game is playable on a wide scale - my system is capable of playing it at a decent framerate, but it's also got much higher specs than the average...
UWE, please update your minimum system requirements, otherwise you're going to get a lot of negative feedback.
Ditto. Feel the same way.
I still play NS every day, yet I still can't even recommend NS2 to my friends. Way to ruin your chance at a turnaround in player interest.
vote meb UWE ns2 lead pr
You quoted me further down; but just to clarify - I'm not complaining and all teary about the state of the game.
I've enjoyed playing it so far; and its coming along nicely - I can see how this game is going to be very fun, even from just having a few moments of game play with a few other players.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If they couldnt continue testing properly or maybe even couldnt afford development any longer would you really want them to do not make that step just to fit in a alpha/beta-definition you read on wikipedia?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't need to read Wikipedia to know what the definition of an alpha and beta are; I'm a developer myself and have participated in several game alpha's and beta's before.
I am not trying to tell UWE how to run their company (that would be ridiculous!); I am just making an observation on the announcement of the beta - like everyone else here.
I am not complaining; I am highlighting the fact that just marking something as 'beta' does not make it as such.
Take Team Fortress 2 for example, that was initially released as a beta before going live. This game was playable; and people understood they could be playing.
If you use a term like 'beta' expect to have people think 'oh its going to be playable but rough around the edges'. When someone then tries to play with 2-3 other players in a server and lags so much that its unplayable; they will think they have wasted their time and it would not meet my understanding and expectations of a 'beta' release of software.
If what they really wanted to do was expand their player base to more alpha testers; then perhaps they could have announced the expansion of alpha testing instead of conducting a 'beta' that is just a new label on the same underlying patch so far. That way they are still letting people know is not in a beta state.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sentences like "... I wont recommend this game to my friends at this stage..." I dont understand. You paid 40 bugs for this game and then prefer to see it die instead of help raising more funds to make it as good as possible...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think thats a fair thing to say at all. Who said I would prefer to see the game die than succeed? Rubbish.
That was constructive criticism, I am letting you know that I would not tell a friend to go and buy the game yet, because its not yet in a playable state.
If they were an avid NS fan, I would probably recommend it - its coming along great. If they had never played NS, I wouldn't tell them to fork over money today and expect them to have some fun tomorrow - its not completely playable in the sense it still hitches/jitters and this distracts from the game play.
As a business owner; I would value being told what a sample of my customers (you and me differ, which is great) are feeling in response to announcements so I could act accordingly. It would be awful for me to say 'this is great' but on the other hand not recommend the game to anyone because I secretly think the game is too laggy to play.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 is gonna be great. I understand your fear our beloved sequel wont come to life. Just have faith in UWE, they will make it. Having faith is your only opportunity, if you havent you do more damage than the criticism helps. Either UWE will release NS2 or noone will. Keep that in mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't need to have faith; I know they will get there - from watching the development of this game from years ago and seeing the work they have done so far, I am very confident they will ship this game and that it will be insanely fun and atmospheric (something I think other games are lacking).
Not a single part of me want's to see this game fail in any way; I am simply commenting on my personal gut reactions to the beta announcement by using reason and expressing my concerns over the announcement of a beta when it contradicts my conditioned understanding of what a 'beta' game should feel like.
UWE are professionals and if I were on their team; I would appreciate reading the varied reactions to the announcement in this thread and the reasoning behind them - it would be irresponsible of me I would think to convey I am confident in their 'beta' tag when I feel and act toward it in another way entirely.
I am looking forward to seeing this game continue to get there; I really am, its going to be awesome.
I just think that to justify a beta tag, the lag should be gone, so that new player's initial first impressions of the game are not a laggy and unplayable experience at 2-6+ players, but a smooth game with work-in-progress features that a beta tag would imply.
<img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WZS1MXnoJx4/TDipKxvNZlI/AAAAAAAAAgo/GA_V61-DSV8/s1600/wtf_is_this_######.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
What bothers me is that UWE, AFAIK, didn't exactly give us any notification of this or at least post some more details. I wouldn't expect them to tell us if they have financial problems or not, but I would have liked to see them say something about the lag and fps and if it will be fixed by the time the beta starts. Because right now, other bugs aside, it seems that the underlying issue for most people is that people can't join servers, the lag from gameplay and connecting players is a killer, and the fps hasn't quite made the mighty bar of standards. Sure, the pivotal tracker gives us an idea, but with such a big announcements as this, I was hoping for some feedback from UWE rather than have us scratch are heads and ask "why?".
I just think that to justify a beta tag, the lag should be gone, so that new player's initial first impressions of the game are not a laggy and unplayable experience at 2-6+ players, but a smooth game with work-in-progress features that a beta tag would imply.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This pretty much sums up my thoughts on pushing for beta.
I've supported NS2 thus far and I'm not about to stop, but considering multiplayer performance at the moment it does feel premature.
All this thread leads to, is more bad PR.
Wasn't playable in day 1 of alpha, still ain't playable and i don't expect it to change overnight... beta comes out tomorrow and a whole lot of people are going to be disappointed.
Closed Beta - now (for 0.5-1 years?)
Open Beta - DI, all features in and tweaking - or skip this stage, do it all in closed beta and move to
Gold / Launch
Has everyone forgot that than NS1 was in beta for a few months before they started releasing it in 1.0, 3.0, etc ?
And you may also recall that it went from "OK" to "Forever Favourite" ?
Worry is justified, however, relax - they will be able to focus now (on certain complaints) they have passed a milestone.
Same as this:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->STOP thinking of this as a beta. its a closed beta. so basically only the ppl that have pre ordered get to play. Think of this as an ALPHA part 2 or an alpha 2.0.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mr. Cryptic.
Like a <strike>boat</strike> fade in the night.
Like a <strike>boat</strike> fade in the night.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is it cryptic at all. You can see everything that is on the bug tracker. You can see there are a number of performance fixes.
<!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>+1</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Closed Beta - now (for 0.5-1 years?)
Open Beta - DI, all features in and tweaking - or skip this stage, do it all in closed beta and move to
Gold / Launch
Has everyone forgot that than NS1 was in beta for a few months before they started releasing it in 1.0, 3.0, etc ?
And you may also recall that it went from "OK" to "Forever Favourite" ?
Worry is justified, however, relax - they will be able to focus now (on certain complaints) they have passed a milestone.
Same as this:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
did u forget that NS1 was a mod not a stand alone game?
If it works then by all means come back and say I told you so, but we've heard this with nearly every patch. I don't even have confidence that the beta will make it tomorrow just from the record of every single patch delay.
Wait. I'm not complaining, but:
Performance has improved, but not drastically enough to make it really playable. 155 (Beta slated for tomorrow) has been the shortest period between patches, so what makes you think that 4 days has made a 'huge' difference.
Either Flayra was being cryptic about what we are going to see tomorrow (major additions, much more than expected) or we are going to see additions but not with the performance increase we are hoping for.
Just wanted to add some thoughts:
Look at the progress since the first release of Alpha, there was a 3 month gap after the first patch, the next one came few weeks later, this one is a week after the last. The time between patches is shrinking exponentially and each one has major improvements to the FPS and gameplay. There are big network/server issues that UWE couldn't have been aware of through internal testing that became apparent once "real world" tests were done. This is what an Alpha build is for.
It doesn't feel like a "beta" yet (the main issue seems to be where 6+ players overload the server) but then "beta" means different things to different people. The important thing is not the name of the development phase but the rate of development.
Yes there are a lot of people with connection issues, yes it seems impossible to play on server with more than a few people: but progress is being made in leaps and bounds and if you've had the good fortune to join a server and play with a small number of players then you'll have had a flavour of what NS2 is going to be like (it's ###### awesome btw :D).
I'm just worried about using the word "Beta" for the next release/sales push. At the moment the pre-alpha people are (mostly) those that played and love NS1 and happily bought into the Alpha just to say "thanks" for the many hours of fun that we got from NS1. "Beta" implies a more stable game than the one we saw in 154. I'm hoping "Server performance - Delivered" progress status is going to be the improvement that finally gets us there.
If UWE needs funds to carry on working on NS2 then at this time more than any it's up to the hardcore fans, who sometimes seem to be the most negative, to be ambassadors instead.