<!--quoteo(post=1799506:date=Sep 22 2010, 07:21 PM:name=DarkATi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DarkATi @ Sep 22 2010, 07:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799506"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly, I understand where the OP is coming from. It disappoints me every time I see "The Crag" on the main page for NS2. Nevertheless, the devs <i>are</i> keeping us quite updated in other novel ways.
In the meantime I am working my way through Fallout 3 for the first time. Fun game. ;) And I get about 60 FPS with everything maxed out. Pretty good for a 2 year old Gateway with a 9800 GT in it, I think.
Cheers, Cody<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you, sir, will be disappointed with the end. i don't know if you played fallout 2 (epic game) but in fallout 2 it was a wise idea to stockpile your best weps as the end boss drained you to your last shell. i went into fallout 3 with the same mindset, i came to the final boss armed to the teeth and then was sooooo disappointed when all i had to do was fire off a couple magnum shells to win.
and it wasn't very nice to tease me with all those motorcycles and trucks and that big, wide open wasteland and then not actually let you ride/drive anything. other than that, it was a great game. eye candy on full settings no doubt.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1799608:date=Sep 23 2010, 08:00 PM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ Sep 23 2010, 08:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799608"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what, i didn't give away the story.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well you did spoil the final encounter by giving to much info on it <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
What is the logic behind the updates? Are they waiting until ALL the content is working reasonably AND the network things are kinda working, then we get the next update?
I thought it was going to be a series of weekly/fortnightly updates adding content...not that I'm bothered it isn't like that but I would like to know whats happening regarding this process...
I check the twitter and progress thing a couple of times per week but are we looking at the next update coming in october or november?
<!--quoteo(post=1799616:date=Sep 23 2010, 05:26 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Sep 23 2010, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well you did spoil the final encounter by giving to much info on it <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
have you played the final encounter? you'd realize that i didn't spoil anything.
<!--quoteo(post=1799617:date=Sep 23 2010, 09:26 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Sep 23 2010, 09:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799617"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is the logic behind the updates? Are they waiting until ALL the content is working reasonably AND the network things are kinda working, then we get the next update?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The only thing holding up the release of the patch is the networking lag issues. That's all. We would have put out a patch a while back, but until that issue is fixed, or at least improved a fair amount, there is no point releasing a patch that no one is going to play.
<!--quoteo(post=1799624:date=Sep 24 2010, 12:04 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Sep 24 2010, 12:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799624"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only thing holding up the release of the patch is the networking lag issues. That's all. We would have put out a patch a while back, but until that issue is fixed, or at least improved a fair amount, there is no point releasing a patch that no one is going to play.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That means still no real improvement => no patch.
I dunno, a few weeks work would still be interessting to test, even if its still unplayable in multiplayer...
<!--quoteo(post=1799690:date=Sep 24 2010, 06:10 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Sep 24 2010, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That means still no real improvement => no patch.
I dunno, a few weeks work would still be interessting to test, even if its still unplayable in multiplayer...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed lots of stuff that could be tested "sp".
<!--quoteo(post=1799666:date=Sep 24 2010, 05:19 AM:name=Ezekiel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ezekiel @ Sep 24 2010, 05:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799666"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the fallouts may well be the dullest games i've ever played.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fallout 3 definitely isn't for everybody. However, I love games like this. I can go at my own pace and really explore everything. I love side quests and logical problem solving, such as the computer terminal hacking in FO3. It reminds me of an offline massively multiplayer RPG. Very cool in my opinion.
I'm just thankful that they put in the ability to warp to locations you've discovered. otherwise, without vehicles, as someone else has mentioned, it would take forever to get anywhere.
And yes, I have all the visual settings maxed out. It is a very pretty game!
<!--quoteo(post=1799690:date=Sep 24 2010, 03:10 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Sep 24 2010, 03:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That means still no real improvement => no patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, it just means that those were the reasons I was giving for why the patch hasn't come out so far.
There have been a bunch of improvements, but its not like one big fix, that addresses everything, there are a lot of various components to the problem. Last I talked to Max he'd made a lot of headway on the issues, and hopefully we'll be getting a patch out next week. We still need to do a lot of thorough testing of the patch that we are going to release, since with the amount of code changes and content added to the gam, things tend to break.
Please, do not release the patch if the fps/lag problem hasn't been fixed, there is no point to see the new Crag thing if we can't barely run the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1799710:date=Sep 24 2010, 01:29 PM:name=Karba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karba @ Sep 24 2010, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799710"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please, do not release the patch if the fps/lag problem hasn't been fixed, there is no point to see the new Crag thing if we can't barely run the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You win the "repeat what he just said in a more whining tone" award for the day
<!--quoteo(post=1799711:date=Sep 24 2010, 08:46 PM:name=Thief)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thief @ Sep 24 2010, 08:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799711"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You win the "repeat what he just said in a more whining tone" award for the day<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry for jump directly to the last page, my bad ;)
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1799711:date=Sep 24 2010, 10:46 AM:name=Thief)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thief @ Sep 24 2010, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799711"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You win the "repeat what he just said in a more whining tone" award for the day<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ahahaha! stole the thoughts from my head.. yet another victim of TL;DR! god hates those who dont read every single post. (or in your case the one just above yours) :-D
thanks cory! and tell max GL with the coding.. breaking certain aspects of the game in order to fix this "bug" is absolutely necessary, I'm sure the entire community would agree, so dont let it discourage you.
yo flayra maybe when you release this "playable" patch you should reopen access to alpha (no black armor included) for $10 like the minecraft guy who has made more money in a week than you have probably made total from your sales?
then advertise it in threads on 4chan and SA where all the nerdiest of the nerds hang out that would like to play a game like NS2
if it's fun the internet will come
also minecraft is in alpha and was made by ONE person, so anyone that responds with NS2 is ALPHA and UWE's team is SMALL should really shut their mouth from this day forward, because someone just proved that alphas can be playable and an internet sensation
Minecraft is no where near as dependant on a working netcode to be played, since the game is played with boxes. NS2 works with explosions, climbing on walls, bullets and physics to mention a few. It's unplayable in the sense that you can't really interact with other players currently, aka "kill them". That's the core mechanic behind the game and that's not working properly yet. Beta is the correct stage to do a promotion (although I really don't recommend the developers themselves go and promote their game on 4chan...) but not alpha.
<!--quoteo(post=1799722:date=Sep 24 2010, 10:07 PM:name=meb2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb2 @ Sep 24 2010, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799722"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yo flayra maybe when you release this "playable" patch you should reopen access to alpha (no black armor included) for $10 like the minecraft guy who has made more money in a week than you have probably made total from your sales?
then advertise it in threads on 4chan and SA where all the nerdiest of the nerds hang out that would like to play a game like NS2
if it's fun the internet will come
also minecraft is in alpha and was made by ONE person, so anyone that responds with NS2 is ALPHA and UWE's team is SMALL should really shut their mouth from this day forward, because someone just proved that alphas can be playable and an internet sensation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The two games are entirely different in terms of the resources required to actually make them. Minecraft is not TECHNICALLY that impressive, it's not doing anything that couldn't have been done before, Notch isn't breaking new ground. UWE on the other hand are definitely attempting to break new ground with that real time dynamic lights and other things. As I said earlier it's not fair to compare the games in terms of their alpha state as the technical skill required to make NS2 is on an entirely different level to Minecraft.
NS2 is more comparable to an AAA big budget title as opposed to a true Indie project like Minecraft.
this isn't about technical differences this is about two indie games trying to get off the ground and one of them did it and did it with remarkable success despite being an alpha and being completely done by one player and not a team
the business models are different and UWE's sucks in comparison to minecraft's. that's what I'm getting at here
The technical difference is that you can't really play NS2 right now. I mean, there's lots of gameplay stuff missing at this point. I don't know how playable (as in gameplay, not fps/lag) will be after this patch, but since there's still classes and tech trees not implemented...
<!--quoteo(post=1799728:date=Sep 24 2010, 05:06 PM:name=meb2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb2 @ Sep 24 2010, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->also, saying the game is played with boxes so it's not as dependent on netcode really isn't very convincing but I appreciate your effort thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, technically it's easier. The world is a giant array represented visually in the world with boxes. That alpha had zero player-to-player interaction, you built up and interacted with the world <i>only </i>and that was fine for that game. It's the core-mechanic of the game to build and destroy stuff, and for the longest time in the alpha that was the only thing players had and still you could spend hours and hours playing it.
If there were stuff like grenades bouncing, players shooting each other, rapid movement and network-prediction then I think things would have been <i>completely </i>different for that one guy to handle. And the very core of a good FPS-game is just that, NS2 being no exception. Otherwise it's simply unplayable.
<!--quoteo(post=1799666:date=Sep 24 2010, 06:19 AM:name=Ezekiel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ezekiel @ Sep 24 2010, 06:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799666"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the fallouts may well be the dullest games i've ever played.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> so true.
also @ NS2 dev team, <3 I'd far rather wait for a great game, so just keep chuggin'
It was prefaced by the "we hope to", context is important. A fairly crippling bug was found and it's pointless to release any update till it has been fixed.
<!--quoteo(post=1799738:date=Sep 24 2010, 05:34 PM:name=meb2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb2 @ Sep 24 2010, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799738"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this isn't about technical differences this is about two indie games trying to get off the ground and one of them did it and did it with remarkable success despite being an alpha and being completely done by one player and not a team
the business models are different and UWE's sucks in comparison to minecraft's. that's what I'm getting at here<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lets see here:
<u>Minecraft</u> -Simplistic gameplay -Fairly simple codebase -Simplistic graphics -Dirt-cheap price tag -Small network foot print/download size -Universal gameplay appeal to almost all gamers -Runs in a browser on any OS
<u>Natural-Selection 2</u> -Complex gameplay -Huge, complex codebase -High-res graphics -Moderate price-tag, but still way cheaper than retail games -Large network footprint for gameplay and large download size -Limited appeal to FPS/RTS crowd -Limited to Windows OS right now
Gee... I wonder why Minecraft is such a crazy run-away sales success, has several updates a week, and NS2 not is quite so much.
<u>Minecraft</u> -Simplistic gameplay -Simplistic graphics -Dirt-cheap price tag -Small network foot print/download size -Universal gameplay appeal to almost all gamers -Runs in a browser on any OS
<u>Natural-Selection 2</u> -Complex gameplay -High-res graphics -Moderate price-tag, but still way cheaper than retail games -Large network footprint for gameplay and large download size -Limited appeal to FPS/RTS crowd -Limited to Windows OS right now
Gee... I wonder why Minecraft is such a crazy run-away sales success, has several updates a week, and NS2 not is quite so much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so your argument is that minecraft is a simplistic game that appeals to a broader audience of pc gamers and that's why it is a sales success in comparison with NS2? aren't you ignoring the fact that NS2 in its alpha state is:
<b>not playable</b>
and when the netcode is properly implemented in the fledgling Spark engine it will be
<b>inaccessible to the anyone who wants to try it</b>
and when the game is nearing completion, possibly fun, and nearing its beta state it will cost
<b>$35 dollars for new players to try</b>
you don't think the above points have something to do with NS2's success vs Minecraft's success? wake up
UWE still has a chance to build up a nice user-base with this game with a playable alpha state if it is indeed everything they have said it will be. word of mouth in high traffic places like Reddit and 4Chan could make it so with a $10 alpha buy-in
like I said earlier: if it's fun, the internet will come
Comments
In the meantime I am working my way through Fallout 3 for the first time. Fun game. ;) And I get about 60 FPS with everything maxed out. Pretty good for a 2 year old Gateway with a 9800 GT in it, I think.
Cheers,
Cody<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you, sir, will be disappointed with the end. i don't know if you played fallout 2 (epic game) but in fallout 2 it was a wise idea to stockpile your best weps as the end boss drained you to your last shell. i went into fallout 3 with the same mindset, i came to the final boss armed to the teeth and then was sooooo disappointed when all i had to do was fire off a couple magnum shells to win.
and it wasn't very nice to tease me with all those motorcycles and trucks and that big, wide open wasteland and then not actually let you ride/drive anything. other than that, it was a great game. eye candy on full settings no doubt.
Well you did spoil the final encounter by giving to much info on it <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/rolleyes.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
only 1 thing i dont understand...
What is the logic behind the updates? Are they waiting until ALL the content is working reasonably AND the network things are kinda working, then we get the next update?
I thought it was going to be a series of weekly/fortnightly updates adding content...not that I'm bothered it isn't like that but I would like to know whats happening regarding this process...
I check the twitter and progress thing a couple of times per week but are we looking at the next update coming in october or november?
have you played the final encounter? you'd realize that i didn't spoil anything.
The only thing holding up the release of the patch is the networking lag issues. That's all. We would have put out a patch a while back, but until that issue is fixed, or at least improved a fair amount, there is no point releasing a patch that no one is going to play.
--Cory
i suppose they're not for everyone. fallout 3 is very different from fallout 2. (3d fps vs. 2d overhead turn based strategy).
the story is pretty deep however post apocalyptic future games/movies seem to have been overdone recently.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That means still no real improvement => no patch.
I dunno, a few weeks work would still be interessting to test, even if its still unplayable in multiplayer...
I dunno, a few weeks work would still be interessting to test, even if its still unplayable in multiplayer...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed lots of stuff that could be tested "sp".
I can see why they do not patch it thou.
Fallout 3 definitely isn't for everybody. However, I love games like this. I can go at my own pace and really explore everything. I love side quests and logical problem solving, such as the computer terminal hacking in FO3. It reminds me of an offline massively multiplayer RPG. Very cool in my opinion.
I'm just thankful that they put in the ability to warp to locations you've discovered. otherwise, without vehicles, as someone else has mentioned, it would take forever to get anywhere.
And yes, I have all the visual settings maxed out. It is a very pretty game!
Cheers,
Cody
No, it just means that those were the reasons I was giving for why the patch hasn't come out so far.
There have been a bunch of improvements, but its not like one big fix, that addresses everything, there are a lot of various components to the problem. Last I talked to Max he'd made a lot of headway on the issues, and hopefully we'll be getting a patch out next week. We still need to do a lot of thorough testing of the patch that we are going to release, since with the amount of code changes and content added to the gam, things tend to break.
--Cory
You win the "repeat what he just said in a more whining tone" award for the day
Sorry for jump directly to the last page, my bad ;)
ahahaha!
stole the thoughts from my head..
yet another victim of TL;DR!
god hates those who dont read every single post.
(or in your case the one just above yours)
:-D
thanks cory!
and tell max GL with the coding.. breaking certain aspects of the game in order to fix this "bug" is absolutely necessary, I'm sure the entire community would agree, so dont let it discourage you.
then advertise it in threads on 4chan and SA where all the nerdiest of the nerds hang out that would like to play a game like NS2
if it's fun the internet will come
also minecraft is in alpha and was made by ONE person, so anyone that responds with NS2 is ALPHA and UWE's team is SMALL should really shut their mouth from this day forward, because someone just proved that alphas can be playable and an internet sensation
Beta is the correct stage to do a promotion (although I really don't recommend the developers themselves go and promote their game on 4chan...) but not alpha.
also, saying the game is played with boxes so it's not as dependent on netcode really isn't very convincing but I appreciate your effort thanks
then advertise it in threads on 4chan and SA where all the nerdiest of the nerds hang out that would like to play a game like NS2
if it's fun the internet will come
also minecraft is in alpha and was made by ONE person, so anyone that responds with NS2 is ALPHA and UWE's team is SMALL should really shut their mouth from this day forward, because someone just proved that alphas can be playable and an internet sensation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The two games are entirely different in terms of the resources required to actually make them. Minecraft is not TECHNICALLY that impressive, it's not doing anything that couldn't have been done before, Notch isn't breaking new ground. UWE on the other hand are definitely attempting to break new ground with that real time dynamic lights and other things. As I said earlier it's not fair to compare the games in terms of their alpha state as the technical skill required to make NS2 is on an entirely different level to Minecraft.
NS2 is more comparable to an AAA big budget title as opposed to a true Indie project like Minecraft.
the business models are different and UWE's sucks in comparison to minecraft's. that's what I'm getting at here
Yeah, technically it's easier. The world is a giant array represented visually in the world with boxes.
That alpha had zero player-to-player interaction, you built up and interacted with the world <i>only </i>and that was fine for that game.
It's the core-mechanic of the game to build and destroy stuff, and for the longest time in the alpha that was the only thing players had and still you could spend hours and hours playing it.
If there were stuff like grenades bouncing, players shooting each other, rapid movement and network-prediction then I think things would have been <i>completely </i>different for that one guy to handle. And the very core of a good FPS-game is just that, NS2 being no exception. Otherwise it's simply unplayable.
so true.
also @ NS2 dev team, <3 I'd far rather wait for a great game, so just keep chuggin'
It was prefaced by the "we hope to", context is important. A fairly crippling bug was found and it's pointless to release any update till it has been fixed.
the business models are different and UWE's sucks in comparison to minecraft's. that's what I'm getting at here<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lets see here:
<u>Minecraft</u>
-Simplistic gameplay
-Fairly simple codebase
-Simplistic graphics
-Dirt-cheap price tag
-Small network foot print/download size
-Universal gameplay appeal to almost all gamers
-Runs in a browser on any OS
<u>Natural-Selection 2</u>
-Complex gameplay
-Huge, complex codebase
-High-res graphics
-Moderate price-tag, but still way cheaper than retail games
-Large network footprint for gameplay and large download size
-Limited appeal to FPS/RTS crowd
-Limited to Windows OS right now
Gee... I wonder why Minecraft is such a crazy run-away sales success, has several updates a week, and NS2 not is quite so much.
<u>Minecraft</u>
-Simplistic gameplay
-Simplistic graphics
-Dirt-cheap price tag
-Small network foot print/download size
-Universal gameplay appeal to almost all gamers
-Runs in a browser on any OS
<u>Natural-Selection 2</u>
-Complex gameplay
-High-res graphics
-Moderate price-tag, but still way cheaper than retail games
-Large network footprint for gameplay and large download size
-Limited appeal to FPS/RTS crowd
-Limited to Windows OS right now
Gee... I wonder why Minecraft is such a crazy run-away sales success, has several updates a week, and NS2 not is quite so much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so your argument is that minecraft is a simplistic game that appeals to a broader audience of pc gamers and that's why it is a sales success in comparison with NS2? aren't you ignoring the fact that NS2 in its alpha state is:
<b>not playable</b>
and when the netcode is properly implemented in the fledgling Spark engine it will be
<b>inaccessible to the anyone who wants to try it</b>
and when the game is nearing completion, possibly fun, and nearing its beta state it will cost
<b>$35 dollars for new players to try</b>
you don't think the above points have something to do with NS2's success vs Minecraft's success? wake up
UWE still has a chance to build up a nice user-base with this game with a playable alpha state if it is indeed everything they have said it will be. word of mouth in high traffic places like Reddit and 4Chan could make it so with a $10 alpha buy-in
like I said earlier: if it's fun, the internet will come