<!--quoteo(post=1797854:date=Sep 7 2010, 10:09 PM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Sep 7 2010, 10:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Were your "quotes" made by top TFC players cause I think can find few funny ones for NS aswell?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I assume 'top TFC players' has the exact same definition of 'top NS players' - meaning a collection of elitist, worthless blowhards who only excel at propagating the river of fetid sewage they manage to fill the community with. What I mean to say is, the 'top TFC players' were so incensed by Valve that they ran off to make their own version of what TF2 "should have been": <a href="http://www.fortress-forever.com/" target="_blank">http://www.fortress-forever.com/</a>
Nobody cares about that game and even fewer people actually play it.
------------------
By the way, nice dodge! But I didn't forget: care to expand on your point where you claimed that no game without air control and 'good movement' would last longer than 6 months, while addressing the fact that TF2 removed most of its air control and 'skill-based movement' features?
Seeing as how it's still got a million billion people playing it and sells seven trillion copies every update, I'm curious as to when exactly you think the entire playerbase of seven quintillion people are going to suddenly realize they're not playing some masturbatory tribute to Quake and delete it forever.
I only ask because TF2 is almost 3 years old so I figure it should probably happen soon.
Of course, there's the chance that twitch-centric FPS games are dead and gone and the ONLY developer still attempting to half-ass the genre just does it to sell their engine. Wait, that would also explain why the most successful FPS games of the last 5 years have been anything *BUT* Quake-clones that you and your ilk seem to think everybody is just DYING to play.
Let me be honest with you - Tribes 2 is still the best MPFPS game ever made, at least the way I see it. It combined so many amazing, ambitious elements into one streamlined and occasionally hilariously crashy package that it will be almost impossible to pull off such a trifecta again. Not even Battlefield games have ever captured the level of spontaneous teamwork and strategy that would pop up in the game in even the most random of pubs. I would like nothing more than to see another Tribes game just to try to capture a glimmer of its former glory.
But I know three things - one, the odds are EXTREMELY slim that anyone will be able to pull it off even remotely well, two, the only game that's ever going to capture the magic that was Tribes 2 is another Tribes game, and three, anything *BUT* Tribes 2 is going to leave me disappointed - so in light of this, I'm happy to remember Tribes 2 as an amazing game and leave it in memories where it's almost better off staying.
Hamfistedly shoving jetpacks and projectile-based weapons into other random FPS games isn't going to do anything except make them into aborted Frakenstein's Monsters of an age that passed long ago. New players aren't going to 'get' it. Old players are going to complain that it's not Tribes. Reality check, people. NS2 is not Quake. It's also not NS1. And Quake didn't 'invent' the FPS genre. Nor did any of the 'top ____ players'. For any game, ever.
Your argument serves no purpose except to raise your blood pressure. Once that point has been reached, you respectfully bow out of the thread or your reputation takes a hit.
<!--quoteo(post=1797863:date=Sep 7 2010, 10:55 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Sep 7 2010, 10:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you respectfully bow out of the thread or your reputation takes a hit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1797847:date=Sep 7 2010, 10:32 PM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Sep 7 2010, 10:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->His point still stands; he wasn't suggesting that players should lose complete control as they do in L4D, but that impairment as it was implemented in that game worked very well for the type of gameplay.
Depending on the type of impairment and how strong the effects are, player impairment can also have a place in NS2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1797855:date=Sep 7 2010, 06:15 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Sep 7 2010, 06:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let me be honest with you - Tribes 2 is still the best MPFPS game ever made, at least the way I see it. It combined so many amazing, ambitious elements into one streamlined and occasionally hilariously crashy package that it will be almost impossible to pull off such a trifecta again. Not even Battlefield games have ever captured the level of spontaneous teamwork and strategy that would pop up in the game in even the most random of pubs. I would like nothing more than to see another Tribes game just to try to capture a glimmer of its former glory.
But I know three things - one, the odds are EXTREMELY slim that anyone will be able to pull it off even remotely well, two, the only game that's ever going to capture the magic that was Tribes 2 is another Tribes game, and three, anything *BUT* Tribes 2 is going to leave me disappointed - so in light of this, I'm happy to remember Tribes 2 as an amazing game and leave it in memories where it's almost better off staying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A man after my own heart. Oh how I long for the days of skiing, Shriek piloting, flag hopping, and no map outs. Why oh why is every server now populated with bots?
And Tribes: Vengeance was every disappointment you could ever ask for. My soul wept after pre-ordering it and playing it...
Sorry about that, what were we talking about again? Got lost on nostalgia avenue.
<!--quoteo(post=1797847:date=Sep 7 2010, 02:32 PM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Sep 7 2010, 02:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->His point still stands; he wasn't suggesting that players should lose complete control as they do in L4D, but that impairment as it was implemented in that game worked very well for the type of gameplay.
Depending on the type of impairment and how strong the effects are, player impairment can also have a place in NS2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know. In fact, as I've posted before, I'm fine with some impairments.
However, trying to copy L4D is a bad idea because their mechanics were designed with a specific purpose that doesn't fit in NS.
<!--quoteo(post=1797717:date=Sep 7 2010, 12:25 AM:name=hookuy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hookuy @ Sep 7 2010, 12:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow dude, thanks for the free aggression. I didn't know you were an erudite, please, show me the way to the light, sensei!
Seriously, haven't you realized yet that you have arguments with a lot of people in this forum? And you have the nerve to tell me I'm "ignorant, narrow-minded and zealous", wow man. Anyway, probably you are still young, so I should stop right here, and let you hit yourself hard with life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Re-wording the "You're 12 years old." insult. Classy.
I disagree, I think that people are having arguments with me. Now don't you agree?
Someone in his 20's -> the majority of (non-wii)* gamers. Many people are too busy with careers and families after this age. I don't really see where this is going. So you are older than 30? And... because you're older, your opinion is worth more? I see you're making the erroneous assumption that with age comes wisdom...
Someone in his 20's -> the majority of (non-wii)* gamers. Many people are too busy with careers and families after this age. I don't really see where this is going. So you are older than 30? And... because you're older, your opinion is worth more? I see you're making the erroneous assumption that with age comes wisdom...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why I said I should stop, because everything one says, you make it into a war, reading out of context, or interpreting it on your way to keep arguing no sense.
When I said you should read Dev's post, you came out with I should read a Bible and then that I'm an ignorant, narrow-minded and zealous person. And this just because I told you to read their post, yes, the people who is making this game. THIS is why I should stop .
<!--quoteo(post=1796613:date=Aug 28 2010, 04:18 AM:name=Pyromaniac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pyromaniac @ Aug 28 2010, 04:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1796613"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There seems to be a lot of things being worked on in NS2 that inhibit the abilities or senses of a player. In light of the recent twitter posts that show that the devs are adding more abilities like this, I felt that it should be discussed if this is really a step in the right direction.
The reason these abilities concern me is impairment of abilities and senses seem to annoy players much more than their opponent having an enhanced ability, or in some cases annoy players for almost no reason. Being impaired in any game creates a sense of helplessness and frustration with the game. People love the feeling of being in complete control of their player and the dynamic is creates, this is why jump and air control are so often praised. As long as this feeling of complete control is maintained a player can almost always feel like they could have done something different to live longer in a certain situation, and the player blames their death on himself and learns from this to improve their game. Inhibiting a player destroys this feeling and instead just makes them annoyed and frustrated with the fact that they have lost that sense of control. The devs spoke of removing devour because it removes a player from the game and frustrates them, but inhibiting a player is essentially the same thing to a lesser extent, and in a way even worse because the player is partially removed from the game before they are destined for death. Another concern is that since there are large amount of these abilities being worked on, much of the game could be reduced to impairing an opponent and killing them in a state of disarray rather than skilled combat.
In short: being impaired is annoying and frustrating, give the other player an enhancement for them to have fun with being more powerful instead. Also, don't add arbitrary inhibitions like motion blur and muffled sound, it's just as annoying and even more pointless.
<b>List of inhibitory effects in NS2</b> (note: these obviously aren't set in stone, but they are being worked on. Some also haven't been detailed but their name suggests impairment): near death sound muffling babblers obscuring vision skulk view blur drifter flare fade's sounds being in wrong places (mentioned in interview) shade blind shade cloak onos stomp feint disrupt more to come?
I may have left some out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
near death sound muffling
There is alot of issues i have with getting rid of inhibitory effects. Particularly partial inhibitors.
things like sound muffling aren't really true inhibitors at all.
most likely there sound muffling works very simply which is
current volume = 70% current volume. so long as you can still hear the sound its not an inhibition at all
a soft footstep off to your left or a loud one, ok it helps determine closeness but if you can hear footsteps at all there always pretty damn close and your still able to determine direciton.
fade's sounds being in wrong places (mentioned in interview)
not an inhibitor as mentioned it doesnt DIRECTLY negatively affect your character it simply moves the location of a sound hardly an inhibition
shade cloak
you specifically said buff the other guy dont hurt me, that right there is actuallly exactly what your asking for, its a player buff, after all you could still go back and say i could have done something (like used infared vision or something i'm sure they have a cloak counter) so stop that death.
onos stomp
gone in its inhib form
so mostly what your left with is a bunch of partial or total ways to blind an opponent, thats it. largely blinds given to a team with only melee attacks to fight a ranged opponent. the solution to almost all of which is maintain range.
Lets say though they did come out with some stuff that was inhibitory and really hard to avoid, a commander ability to click on the map and create an area that slows all enemies in it.
your saying you'd rather have a buff, so in this case a commanders ability to create an area that would boost the speed of all allies but the problem is if you replace all negative affect abilities with buffs what you end up with is complaints because a team is crazy buffed.
if you for example replace shade's blind with an ability to let shades pass through walls you'd have an invisible guy who can pass through walls and gets some buff to see all enemies.
look at rpg type games that allow debuff spam and how people complain that there constantly slowed stunned etc, i understand your complaint is well i hate that i can't do anything, well just what the hell are you going to do against someone running around with invisibility wall hacking ability to see all enemies locations and now even more buffs like speed and stuff.
Temphage, thanks for your long-winded response full of assumptions, built up hatred, and illogical arguments aimed to drive the thread off topic to a post that you didn't even read. The funniest part is when you trash my point that people like air control because of the extra control it gives, then say that games need it because there's not enough control over one's jump without it. I'll also broaden that point and provide the irrefutable fact that people play videogames because they want control over and interaction with their entertainment media.
sparkz if you're not a troll, I'm not going to bother to write out a response if you won't bother to format your writing
I tend to agree that overdoing player-impairment effects is a bad design decision. One or two is fine, but it's an easy line to cross, and when you do the game becomes a mess. I'll reserve judgment on NS2 until I see more finalized gameplay, of course.
I only read the title and I came here to say that while I don't support like players playing drunk or high, I support their freedom to make that choice!
<!--quoteo(post=1798100:date=Sep 10 2010, 01:09 AM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Sep 10 2010, 01:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798100"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I only read the title and I came here to say that while I don't support like players playing drunk or high, I support their freedom to make that choice!
So let them play drunk and high!*
*as long as they are on the other team!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some of the best times I had on NS was when I was high. Back in the day, going gorge and playing on a semi-full server at 2 in the morning. Just talking and goofing about with a dozen other people until 5.
<!--quoteo(post=1797982:date=Sep 9 2010, 06:12 AM:name=hookuy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hookuy @ Sep 9 2010, 06:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797982"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is why I said I should stop, because everything one says, you make it into a war, reading out of context, or interpreting it on your way to keep arguing no sense.
When I said you should read Dev's post, you came out with I should read a Bible and then that I'm an ignorant, narrow-minded and zealous person. And this just because I told you to read their post, yes, the people who is making this game. THIS is why I should stop .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You very clearly disregarded my opinion due to me apparently being "young and without life-experience". That's just ignorant conceit.
I was illustrating to you exactly the way you appear. You sounded exactly like a religious zealot preaching the Bible and Jesus. It was a very apt (and clever) comparison. I have read what he wrote - you know this, but you continue to irritate my logical side by saying "just read the dev post", and then "read Devs' post many times as you need, until you understand what they said". I mocked that "argument" by processing it and spitting it back out at you: "Read the Bible as many times as you need, until you understand that Jesus is the true Lord." Ridiculous.
Some people actually seem to play better when drunk/high. Some play worse. Regardless, they generally play like idiots.
<!--quoteo(post=1798112:date=Sep 10 2010, 07:59 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Sep 10 2010, 07:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798112"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was.. a religious zealot preaching the Bible and Jesus, but you continue to irritate...I mock.. until you understand that Jesus is the true Lord.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> CODE CRACKED
<!--quoteo(post=1798112:date=Sep 10 2010, 05:59 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Sep 10 2010, 05:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798112"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some people actually seem to play better when drunk/high. Some play worse. Regardless, they generally play like idiots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey, long as they have fun. That's all that matters mate.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some people actually seem to play better when drunk/high. Some play worse. Regardless, they generally play like idiots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it's easily explained they just hit the Ballmer Peak <a href="http://xkcd.com/323/" target="_blank">http://xkcd.com/323/</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1798119:date=Sep 10 2010, 02:10 PM:name=MaLaKa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaLaKa @ Sep 10 2010, 02:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798119"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey, long as they have fun. That's all that matters mate.
Chill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't say there was anything wrong with playing like an idiot, I'm just saying they do. Everyone likes to play like an idiot every once in a while - even if they're sober.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1797855:date=Sep 7 2010, 11:15 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Sep 7 2010, 11:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way, nice dodge! But I didn't forget: care to expand on your point where you claimed that no game without air control and 'good movement' would last longer than 6 months, while addressing the fact that TF2 removed most of its air control and 'skill-based movement' features?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's usually a good idea to know what you're talking about before opening your mouth, or in this case slamming your ham fists against your keyboard, especially when you choose the aggressive "you're an idiot, here let me school you" approach.
TF2 actually has air control very much comparable to TFC. The difference is that they drastically reduced air acceleration, resulting in only marginal speed gains from bunnyhopping. Fortunately for TF2, and all the players who enjoy the added depth of movement skills, Valve gave scouts, soldiers and demomen the tools to benefit from said air control. None of them are as deep and engaging as what they removed, but it's a damn sight better than nothing.
By comparison NS2 gameplay is likely going to be much more reliant on movement skills yet it doesn't have comparable tools to exploit air control, other than the very straight forward leap mechanic. There aren't any big explosions to propel you into the air and forward. Without skill based movement for aliens you're left with a big bag of Zzz.
<!--quoteo(post=1797855:date=Sep 7 2010, 11:15 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Sep 7 2010, 11:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a collection of elitist, worthless blowhards who only excel at propagating the river of fetid sewage they manage to fill the community with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's surprisingly close to how I would describe you and your ilk.
<!--quoteo(post=1797847:date=Sep 8 2010, 07:32 AM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Sep 8 2010, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Depending on the type of impairment and how strong the effects are, player impairment can also have a place in NS2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ^ The real answer.
<!--quoteo(post=1798274:date=Sep 12 2010, 09:54 AM:name=steppin'razor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steppin'razor @ Sep 12 2010, 09:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798274"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->^ The real answer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That answer lacks any kind actual informational value. Almost everything can work with proper implementation. The difficulties start when you try to find out what kind of implementation actually works.
<!--quoteo(post=1798284:date=Sep 12 2010, 08:33 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Sep 12 2010, 08:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798284"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The difficulties start when you try to find out what kind of implementation actually works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And that's our job how?
Comments
I assume 'top TFC players' has the exact same definition of 'top NS players' - meaning a collection of elitist, worthless blowhards who only excel at propagating the river of fetid sewage they manage to fill the community with. What I mean to say is, the 'top TFC players' were so incensed by Valve that they ran off to make their own version of what TF2 "should have been": <a href="http://www.fortress-forever.com/" target="_blank">http://www.fortress-forever.com/</a>
Nobody cares about that game and even fewer people actually play it.
------------------
By the way, nice dodge! But I didn't forget: care to expand on your point where you claimed that no game without air control and 'good movement' would last longer than 6 months, while addressing the fact that TF2 removed most of its air control and 'skill-based movement' features?
Seeing as how it's still got a million billion people playing it and sells seven trillion copies every update, I'm curious as to when exactly you think the entire playerbase of seven quintillion people are going to suddenly realize they're not playing some masturbatory tribute to Quake and delete it forever.
I only ask because TF2 is almost 3 years old so I figure it should probably happen soon.
Of course, there's the chance that twitch-centric FPS games are dead and gone and the ONLY developer still attempting to half-ass the genre just does it to sell their engine. Wait, that would also explain why the most successful FPS games of the last 5 years have been anything *BUT* Quake-clones that you and your ilk seem to think everybody is just DYING to play.
Let me be honest with you - Tribes 2 is still the best MPFPS game ever made, at least the way I see it. It combined so many amazing, ambitious elements into one streamlined and occasionally hilariously crashy package that it will be almost impossible to pull off such a trifecta again. Not even Battlefield games have ever captured the level of spontaneous teamwork and strategy that would pop up in the game in even the most random of pubs. I would like nothing more than to see another Tribes game just to try to capture a glimmer of its former glory.
But I know three things - one, the odds are EXTREMELY slim that anyone will be able to pull it off even remotely well, two, the only game that's ever going to capture the magic that was Tribes 2 is another Tribes game, and three, anything *BUT* Tribes 2 is going to leave me disappointed - so in light of this, I'm happy to remember Tribes 2 as an amazing game and leave it in memories where it's almost better off staying.
Hamfistedly shoving jetpacks and projectile-based weapons into other random FPS games isn't going to do anything except make them into aborted Frakenstein's Monsters of an age that passed long ago. New players aren't going to 'get' it. Old players are going to complain that it's not Tribes. Reality check, people. NS2 is not Quake. It's also not NS1. And Quake didn't 'invent' the FPS genre. Nor did any of the 'top ____ players'. For any game, ever.
I chuckled.
Depending on the type of impairment and how strong the effects are, player impairment can also have a place in NS2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly.
But I know three things - one, the odds are EXTREMELY slim that anyone will be able to pull it off even remotely well, two, the only game that's ever going to capture the magic that was Tribes 2 is another Tribes game, and three, anything *BUT* Tribes 2 is going to leave me disappointed - so in light of this, I'm happy to remember Tribes 2 as an amazing game and leave it in memories where it's almost better off staying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A man after my own heart. Oh how I long for the days of skiing, Shriek piloting, flag hopping, and no map outs. Why oh why is every server now populated with bots?
And Tribes: Vengeance was every disappointment you could ever ask for. My soul wept after pre-ordering it and playing it...
Sorry about that, what were we talking about again? Got lost on nostalgia avenue.
Depending on the type of impairment and how strong the effects are, player impairment can also have a place in NS2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know. In fact, as I've posted before, I'm fine with some impairments.
However, trying to copy L4D is a bad idea because their mechanics were designed with a specific purpose that doesn't fit in NS.
Seriously, haven't you realized yet that you have arguments with a lot of people in this forum? And you have the nerve to tell me I'm "ignorant, narrow-minded and zealous", wow man. Anyway, probably you are still young, so I should stop right here, and let you hit yourself hard with life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Re-wording the "You're 12 years old." insult. Classy.
I disagree, I think that people are having arguments with me. Now don't you agree?
I disagree, I think that people are having arguments with me. Now don't you agree?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I say "young" It's someone in his 20's. Anyway, the one insulting was you, and I haven't been disrespectful to you.
Someone in his 20's -> the majority of (non-wii)* gamers. Many people are too busy with careers and families after this age. I don't really see where this is going.
So you are older than 30? And... because you're older, your opinion is worth more? I see you're making the erroneous assumption that with age comes wisdom...
Someone in his 20's -> the majority of (non-wii)* gamers. Many people are too busy with careers and families after this age. I don't really see where this is going.
So you are older than 30? And... because you're older, your opinion is worth more? I see you're making the erroneous assumption that with age comes wisdom...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why I said I should stop, because everything one says, you make it into a war, reading out of context, or interpreting it on your way to keep arguing no sense.
When I said you should read Dev's post, you came out with I should read a Bible and then that I'm an ignorant, narrow-minded and zealous person. And this just because I told you to read their post, yes, the people who is making this game. THIS is why I should stop .
The reason these abilities concern me is impairment of abilities and senses seem to annoy players much more than their opponent having an enhanced ability, or in some cases annoy players for almost no reason. Being impaired in any game creates a sense of helplessness and frustration with the game. People love the feeling of being in complete control of their player and the dynamic is creates, this is why jump and air control are so often praised. As long as this feeling of complete control is maintained a player can almost always feel like they could have done something different to live longer in a certain situation, and the player blames their death on himself and learns from this to improve their game. Inhibiting a player destroys this feeling and instead just makes them annoyed and frustrated with the fact that they have lost that sense of control. The devs spoke of removing devour because it removes a player from the game and frustrates them, but inhibiting a player is essentially the same thing to a lesser extent, and in a way even worse because the player is partially removed from the game before they are destined for death. Another concern is that since there are large amount of these abilities being worked on, much of the game could be reduced to impairing an opponent and killing them in a state of disarray rather than skilled combat.
In short: being impaired is annoying and frustrating, give the other player an enhancement for them to have fun with being more powerful instead. Also, don't add arbitrary inhibitions like motion blur and muffled sound, it's just as annoying and even more pointless.
<b>List of inhibitory effects in NS2</b> (note: these obviously aren't set in stone, but they are being worked on. Some also haven't been detailed but their name suggests impairment):
near death sound muffling
babblers obscuring vision
skulk view blur
drifter flare
fade's sounds being in wrong places (mentioned in interview)
shade blind
shade cloak
onos stomp
feint
disrupt
more to come?
I may have left some out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
near death sound muffling
There is alot of issues i have with getting rid of inhibitory effects.
Particularly partial inhibitors.
things like sound muffling aren't really true inhibitors at all.
most likely there sound muffling works very simply which is
current volume = 70% current volume.
so long as you can still hear the sound its not an inhibition at all
a soft footstep off to your left or a loud one, ok it helps determine closeness but if you can hear footsteps at all there always pretty damn close and your still able to determine direciton.
fade's sounds being in wrong places (mentioned in interview)
not an inhibitor as mentioned
it doesnt DIRECTLY negatively affect your character it simply moves the location of a sound hardly an inhibition
shade cloak
you specifically said buff the other guy dont hurt me, that right there is actuallly exactly what your asking for, its a player buff, after all you could still go back and say i could have done something (like used infared vision or something i'm sure they have a cloak counter) so stop that death.
onos stomp
gone in its inhib form
so mostly what your left with is a bunch of partial or total ways to blind an opponent, thats it.
largely blinds given to a team with only melee attacks to fight a ranged opponent.
the solution to almost all of which is maintain range.
Lets say though they did come out with some stuff that was inhibitory and really hard to avoid, a commander ability to click on the map and create an area that slows all enemies in it.
your saying you'd rather have a buff, so in this case a commanders ability to create an area that would boost the speed of all allies but the problem is if you replace all negative affect abilities with buffs what you end up with is complaints because a team is crazy buffed.
if you for example replace shade's blind with an ability to let shades pass through walls you'd have an invisible guy who can pass through walls and gets some buff to see all enemies.
look at rpg type games that allow debuff spam and how people complain that there constantly slowed stunned etc, i understand your complaint is well i hate that i can't do anything, well just what the hell are you going to do against someone running around with invisibility wall hacking ability to see all enemies locations and now even more buffs like speed and stuff.
sparkz if you're not a troll, I'm not going to bother to write out a response if you won't bother to format your writing
So let them play drunk and high!*
*as long as they are on the other team!
So let them play drunk and high!*
*as long as they are on the other team!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some of the best times I had on NS was when I was high. Back in the day, going gorge and playing on a semi-full server at 2 in the morning. Just talking and goofing about with a dozen other people until 5.
Good times.
When I said you should read Dev's post, you came out with I should read a Bible and then that I'm an ignorant, narrow-minded and zealous person. And this just because I told you to read their post, yes, the people who is making this game. THIS is why I should stop .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You very clearly disregarded my opinion due to me apparently being "young and without life-experience". That's just ignorant conceit.
I was illustrating to you exactly the way you appear. You sounded exactly like a religious zealot preaching the Bible and Jesus. It was a very apt (and clever) comparison. I have read what he wrote - you know this, but you continue to irritate my logical side by saying "just read the dev post", and then "read Devs' post many times as you need, until you understand what they said". I mocked that "argument" by processing it and spitting it back out at you: "Read the Bible as many times as you need, until you understand that Jesus is the true Lord." Ridiculous.
Some people actually seem to play better when drunk/high. Some play worse. Regardless, they generally play like idiots.
CODE CRACKED
Hey, long as they have fun. That's all that matters mate.
Chill.
Well it's easily explained they just hit the Ballmer Peak <a href="http://xkcd.com/323/" target="_blank">http://xkcd.com/323/</a>
Chill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say there was anything wrong with playing like an idiot, I'm just saying they do. Everyone likes to play like an idiot every once in a while - even if they're sober.
TrC: Well played, sir.
It's usually a good idea to know what you're talking about before opening your mouth, or in this case slamming your ham fists against your keyboard, especially when you choose the aggressive "you're an idiot, here let me school you" approach.
TF2 actually has air control very much comparable to TFC. The difference is that they drastically reduced air acceleration, resulting in only marginal speed gains from bunnyhopping. Fortunately for TF2, and all the players who enjoy the added depth of movement skills, Valve gave scouts, soldiers and demomen the tools to benefit from said air control. None of them are as deep and engaging as what they removed, but it's a damn sight better than nothing.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1lzThF5Qfa0"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1lzThF5Qfa0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
By comparison NS2 gameplay is likely going to be much more reliant on movement skills yet it doesn't have comparable tools to exploit air control, other than the very straight forward leap mechanic. There aren't any big explosions to propel you into the air and forward. Without skill based movement for aliens you're left with a big bag of Zzz.
<!--quoteo(post=1797855:date=Sep 7 2010, 11:15 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Sep 7 2010, 11:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a collection of elitist, worthless blowhards who only excel at propagating the river of fetid sewage they manage to fill the community with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's surprisingly close to how I would describe you and your ilk.
^ The real answer.
That answer lacks any kind actual informational value. Almost everything can work with proper implementation. The difficulties start when you try to find out what kind of implementation actually works.
And that's our job how?
Let me answer: by waiting and actually testing it!!
Do I win?