Even if the game is not playable, it's still testable. Because even warping and lag issues at the beginning was something we had to report. Also sound loops, issues with guns, etc.
So devs are working on that now, and in a near future, will be working to fix minor bugs, while we will be playing and having fun killing each other and reporting those new small bugs. In the meantime, patience guys. :)
Video fps are client side only and determine how many frames your pc can draw. Game fps generally describe how often the state of game objects are updated.
A basic example of this would be physics and the resulting collision detection. Lets say physics are completely CPU calculated. Graphics enterily run off the GPU.
What can now happen is the following: Game can only draw 10vfps per seconds, resulting in choppy, not fluid motions on the client side even if the client can calculate 100gfps.
Now imagine that you have to connect 10 people with differing gfps to a server and then the server has to make sure that the game game events are all the same on every client, despite not every clients being able to calculate game events at the same speed. The easiest way to achieve synchronization is to nerf every client to the gfps of the client with the lowest gfps :)
However we dont want that, so interpolation and extrapolation come into play and tada the whole thing went from simple to just ###### complicated. Why is anyone even bothering to apply this kind of math?
Lets sum it up:
Clients have gfps and vfps If clients have low g or low vfps then clients will feel laggy, even if gfps and vfps are untied from each other. If a client has low gfps then we need to put additional stress on either the server or the other clients to interpolate or extrapolate the missing gfps info. Server has only gfps but automatically caps the maximum amount of gfps any client can have.
So what you get is a very delicate system with a lot of potential points of failure that are not under your own control and the task to balance this system :)
<!--quoteo(post=1796895:date=Aug 30 2010, 01:07 PM:name=chopper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopper @ Aug 30 2010, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1796895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesn't have to do with one's system buddy. It has nothing to do with fps count, it has to do with server latency, lag, etc. On public servers where people join in droves it makes it impossible to play (hence test gameplay). I can walk around in maps on LAN/local servers without lag and I get decent fps. It's not about that, get it? Don't be a smart ass. Can you see beyond this line of reason, or are you ignorant to that fact?. Yes or no?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1796900:date=Aug 30 2010, 12:35 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Aug 30 2010, 12:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1796900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could be ignorant to it if it was indeed a fact, but it is somewhat lacking...
But tell me, where did I say anything about the <b>FPS</b> performance specifically? Network communication also involves clients side to send and receive data, which the server then processes (just as the clients do). But a bogged down clientside computer with FPS issues, will probably also have some trouble sending data trough the tubes, what with the cpu/gpu being hogged by some unknown (or known) engine bug/memoryleak or other hardware specific issues...
It is also possible the network is actually running somewhat smooth... But on a bogged down system that is experiencing local performance issues, you can't really see this due to the FPS issue it might have...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I already told you I don't have low fps (around 20 which is smooth enough) and that video is irrelevant, I can play the same on a LAN server, but the latency/lag problem happens on public servers where many players start joining and leaving. Even Flayra said the lag problem is real and they're working on it. By your reasoning he is also wrong.
If the game was playable it would have players testing it right now, but it's not. You sound very ridiculous coming here and saying No, there's no lag problem, it's your system.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1796931:date=Aug 30 2010, 10:05 PM:name=chopper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopper @ Aug 30 2010, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1796931"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even Flayra said the lag problem is real and they're working on it. By your reasoning he is also wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> More like, by your interpretation of what you think I posted...
<!--quoteo(post=1796931:date=Aug 30 2010, 10:05 PM:name=chopper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopper @ Aug 30 2010, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1796931"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You sound very ridiculous coming here and saying No, there's no lag problem, it's your system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I said no such thing, I said it depends per system.
Would you mind reading before posting?
Also if others on the server have lag or fps issues, they can have an influence on your packetloss and server performance as well..
<!--quoteo(post=1796933:date=Aug 30 2010, 04:09 PM:name=chopper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopper @ Aug 30 2010, 04:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1796933"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol, yeah we appreciate your hard contribution. move along...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok, here's some contribution.
it is playable, i have played. and people are testing it, but you're looking in the wrong place. go to getsatisfaction.com and you can see all the testers testing.
everyone is having the same problems right now, so people get to the wall when the patch comes out, report their experience and then wait patiently for UWE to go about fixing the problems. main problems right now? lag and warping and hit reg. guess what they're working on...
<!--quoteo(post=1796902:date=Aug 30 2010, 01:38 PM:name=willcounts)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (willcounts @ Aug 30 2010, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1796902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just took a peek at your posts and it's amazing how much more cohesive and intelligent your writing was back then. I guess you're suffering from something that causes severe mental degeneration over time? I'm sorry, and understand your pain now, as you never can't be sure if you'll actually be able to actually play the game due to this when it's finally playable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol it's because at the time, i really cared what ######es like you thought. I was young. and people who use the word fancy.... well let's just say they're... fancy.
"Meh ok, just fancied getting overeasily provoked ;(
Hopefully won't probably read it though, despising the game, forum and dev team after all."
please read that out loud and then go kill yourself.
id like to add that i am honored that you took the time out of ur day to read all my past posts.
and yet we still have some very considerate a level headed players who take time to explain things (yay Faskalia).
But seriously, here's some rules to be cool: <ul><li> Avoid personal attacks</li><li> Be patient, it's an alpha, things go through massive testing then passive waiting periods.</li><li> You shouldn't expect alpha builds to be super-polished-always-working gameplay builds.</li></ul>
<!--quoteo(post=1796991:date=Aug 31 2010, 03:21 AM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Aug 31 2010, 03:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1796991"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But seriously, here's some rules to be cool: <ul><li> Avoid personal attacks</li><li> Be patient, it's an alpha, things go through massive testing then passive waiting periods.</li><li> You shouldn't expect alpha builds to be super-polished-always-working gameplay builds.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
as if trying to teach chimpanzees table manners will change their ways
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1797004:date=Aug 31 2010, 03:44 PM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Aug 31 2010, 03:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797004"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->actually chimps can be smart. i take that back. let's go with baboons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Let's just keep it with humans, humans suck and when set in their ways... They won't change that easily...
<!--quoteo(post=1797060:date=Aug 31 2010, 10:54 PM:name=Live_Feed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Live_Feed @ Aug 31 2010, 10:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797060"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maturity is fun! :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> only when the person gets old enough to experience what it is
<!--quoteo(post=1797055:date=Aug 31 2010, 09:59 PM:name=Baron_Bad_Egg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Baron_Bad_Egg @ Aug 31 2010, 09:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1797055"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->snip<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Did your shrink say you need an outlet for your aggression? If so, then why take it out on this particular topic? I respect DJ's, because they keep the music flowin :D and you said yourself that he said (whatever he said)it in a metaphor, so i see no irony.
Comments
Meh ok, just fancied getting overeasily provoked ;(
Hopefully won't probably read it though, despising the game, forum and dev team after all.
So devs are working on that now, and in a near future, will be working to fix minor bugs, while we will be playing and having fun killing each other and reporting those new small bugs. In the meantime, patience guys. :)
There are basically two kinds of fps:
video fps
and
game fps
Video fps are client side only and determine how many frames your pc can draw.
Game fps generally describe how often the state of game objects are updated.
A basic example of this would be physics and the resulting collision detection. Lets say physics are completely CPU calculated. Graphics enterily run off the GPU.
What can now happen is the following: Game can only draw 10vfps per seconds, resulting in choppy, not fluid motions on the client side even if the client can calculate 100gfps.
Now imagine that you have to connect 10 people with differing gfps to a server and then the server has to make sure that the game game events are all the same on every client, despite not every clients being able to calculate game events at the same speed. The easiest way to achieve synchronization is to nerf every client to the gfps of the client with the lowest gfps :)
However we dont want that, so interpolation and extrapolation come into play and tada the whole thing went from simple to just ###### complicated.
Why is anyone even bothering to apply this kind of math?
Lets sum it up:
Clients have gfps and vfps
If clients have low g or low vfps then clients will feel laggy, even if gfps and vfps are untied from each other.
If a client has low gfps then we need to put additional stress on either the server or the other clients to interpolate or extrapolate the missing gfps info.
Server has only gfps but automatically caps the maximum amount of gfps any client can have.
So what you get is a very delicate system with a lot of potential points of failure that are not under your own control and the task to balance this system :)
i'm not your buddy, friend.
But tell me, where did I say anything about the <b>FPS</b> performance specifically? Network communication also involves clients side to send and receive data, which the server then processes (just as the clients do). But a bogged down clientside computer with FPS issues, will probably also have some trouble sending data trough the tubes, what with the cpu/gpu being hogged by some unknown (or known) engine bug/memoryleak or other hardware specific issues...
It is also possible the network is actually running somewhat smooth... But on a bogged down system that is experiencing local performance issues, you can't really see this due to the FPS issue it might have...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I already told you I don't have low fps (around 20 which is smooth enough) and that video is irrelevant, I can play the same on a LAN server, but the latency/lag problem happens on public servers where many players start joining and leaving. Even Flayra said the lag problem is real and they're working on it. By your reasoning he is also wrong.
If the game was playable it would have players testing it right now, but it's not. You sound very ridiculous coming here and saying No, there's no lag problem, it's your system.
lol, yeah we appreciate your hard contribution. move along...
More like, by your interpretation of what you think I posted...
<!--quoteo(post=1796931:date=Aug 30 2010, 10:05 PM:name=chopper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopper @ Aug 30 2010, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1796931"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You sound very ridiculous coming here and saying No, there's no lag problem, it's your system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said no such thing, I said it depends per system.
Would you mind reading before posting?
Also if others on the server have lag or fps issues, they can have an influence on your packetloss and server performance as well..
ok, here's some contribution.
it is playable, i have played. and people are testing it, but you're looking in the wrong place. go to getsatisfaction.com and you can see all the testers testing.
everyone is having the same problems right now, so people get to the wall when the patch comes out, report their experience and then wait patiently for UWE to go about fixing the problems. main problems right now? lag and warping and hit reg. guess what they're working on...
some people are just more patient than others.
lol it's because at the time, i really cared what ######es like you thought. I was young. and people who use the word fancy.... well let's just say they're... fancy.
"Meh ok, just fancied getting overeasily provoked ;(
Hopefully won't probably read it though, despising the game, forum and dev team after all."
please read that out loud and then go kill yourself.
id like to add that i am honored that you took the time out of ur day to read all my past posts.
and troll bait
and yet we still have some very considerate a level headed players who take time to explain things (yay Faskalia).
But seriously, here's some rules to be cool:
<ul><li> Avoid personal attacks</li><li> Be patient, it's an alpha, things go through massive testing then passive waiting periods.</li><li> You shouldn't expect alpha builds to be super-polished-always-working gameplay builds.</li></ul>
<ul><li> Avoid personal attacks</li><li> Be patient, it's an alpha, things go through massive testing then passive waiting periods.</li><li> You shouldn't expect alpha builds to be super-polished-always-working gameplay builds.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
as if trying to teach chimpanzees table manners will change their ways
Let's just keep it with humans, humans suck and when set in their ways... They won't change that easily...
Maturity is fun! :D
only when the person gets old enough to experience what it is
Did your shrink say you need an outlet for your aggression? If so, then why take it out on this particular topic? I respect DJ's, because they keep the music flowin :D and you said yourself that he said (whatever he said)it in a metaphor, so i see no irony.
So uhh.....now what? Coffee anyone?