Free mouselook while maintaining control over flight?
While it sounds kinda neato, this is a FPS game and not a flight simulator.
I thought the 3.2 flight model worked just find overall. Making Lerk flight more complex, while opening up cool variety, may just make it a pain to learn and Lerks a "must master mechanics first" class. Considering that players need to learn all the lifeforms already, and I know of many new players who left because it was too hard to learn them all, I don't think increasing the complexity is a good thing.
A perch/roost feature might be nice to grab onto wall/ceilings, but that's all I would change personally.
As long as it has depth and good learning curve, easy to grasp is not bad but if its easy to learn it gets very boring killing game experience, I prefer bite / very short raged spike over sniping / shooting lerk as it requires some decition making and timing. Purely support glasses tend to be less fun in most games thus I suggest more aggressive style.
I posted some code in the mod forum that does that, if you're looking down it reduces the lift from your flaps progressively the more you face down, so if you look straight down your flaps push you straight down only. (normally a flap pushes you in the direction you're looking, plus some upward acceleration too. That's why you can't dive in 3.2 - when looking down your flap pushes you down and up at the same time)
The code i posted allows strafe flapping and gliding, which 3.2 doesn't have and I think we're better off without it.
I'm fine with reproducing NS1 flight. It's really simple, each flap adds a little upward momentum and a lot of forward momentum. Holding down the button locks in your forward momentum adjusted for gravity, but you lose a little when you turn.
I think lerk flight should be kept the same way it is in NS1 right now or at least very similar. Don't over complicate things...and please please please don't replace bite with spikes. That doesn't sound appealing at all.
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
The glide-look control issue can be pretty simple, and it was simple. Use the strafe keys, A D or S, and you go into glide-look mode. In the mode you can air strafe sort of an do the looking/sniping as we have been saying. When you aren't using the directional buttons and are only using the "move forward" key, the flight model is aim where you move like we expect. When you want to do the strafe stuff you have to tell the system where you want to go while you are flying, so when you want to continue going forward while aimed backwards you simply have to strafe to the side and eventually hit the right keys so you end up holding the S key while you keep aiming. Eventually you reorient yourself.
Direction relative to where you are looking is really intuitive and it worked the first time around, I think a lot of the concern is overblown here. Charlie and the team got it right for ns1 twice, they can definitely figure it out with time and sanity to spare :D
<!--quoteo(post=1795109:date=Aug 19 2010, 02:35 AM:name=rdeverett)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rdeverett @ Aug 19 2010, 02:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think lerk flight should be kept the same way it is in NS1 right now or at least very similar. Don't over complicate things...and please please please don't replace bite with spikes. That doesn't sound appealing at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
spikes are already in. lerk is a support class with sniping and bombing runs by design. the range on the spikes is such that you have to be relatively close, like 10 yards unless you're sniping. the hanging from the ceiling is for initiating spike strafing runs from above.
I'd much rather there not be a glide-look mode where the flightpath of the lerk is 'locked' while aiming in another direction. It means you can't turn while aiming. It sounds like you are just describing regular strafing when you say :
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When you want to do the strafe stuff you have to tell the system where you want to go while you are flying, so when you want to continue going forward while aimed backwards you simply have to strafe to the side and eventually hit the right keys so you end up holding the S key while you keep aiming. Eventually you reorient yourself<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't consider that a glide-look mode. That is just an air-strafe. To describe it in Mech Warrior terms, I'd like the lerk to be able to torso-twist. Moving in one direction while aiming in another. But I still want the mouse-look to effect the angle of flight always. Think of it like a marine or skulk jump-strafing. They are going in a direction 90 degrees relative to their x-hair. I think the problem with allowing a lerk to fly-strafe backwards or even 90 degrees is that it has basically become a jet-pack. There is no sense of flight/glide like the current NS1 lerk. That is why I think some sort of limitation on lerk air-strafing would be good. Probably about 45 degrees or so (anything above 90 would seem fairly odd IMO). This requires the lerk to fly mostly forward to have any kind of horizontal speed, but would still allow for a familiar kind of FPS strafing maneuvers while in flight.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
it would like to see a mix of current flight system and the one from ns3.1: being able to fly sidewards (flap/pressing jump several times and strafe) or directional (holding w / forward) and when gliding forwar (holding jump+w) being able to aim to some degree (~ 60 ° cone).
this 3 fly styles could be mixed, for example: flapping sidewards around a corner and shoot some spikes -> marines put attention to you -> change flystyle to directional and escape to the next vent. or, if some bigger fight takes place with lot of confusion: fly over the crowd, shoot some spores / spikes while you are gliding and aiming down.
Additional the wallwalking from skulk should be the same for lerk, makes no sense actually that skulks can move like that and lerks not.
Idea #1: Lerks MUST be able to flying in a direction other than forward.
If you can only fly forward and you must face a marine to attack and you are a fragile lifeform.... Uh, do I really have to explain this one?
Lerks won't be able to fly while shooting. We want the flying alien to fly around almost all the time. Telling them to stop flying so they can fight is not just Bad Game Design, it's the Worst Game Design Ever Conceived.
Maybe if Lerks became completely incapable of flight if marines come within 20 meters, that could possibly be worse.
Idea #2: Lerks MUST have a smooth flying model.
If flying reduces your accuracy by a ###### ton.... Uh, do I really have to explain this one?
Lerks won't be able to fly while shooting. We want flying aliens to use flight as more than just transporation. If Lerks cannot be flying around 99% of the time in combat, we have more Worst Game Design Ever Imagined.
Well, not the worst, but still Very Bad Game Design.
tl;dr: <!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>If lerks can't shoot and fly at the same time, that is the Worst Game Design Ever Imagined.</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo(post=1795520:date=Aug 20 2010, 01:52 PM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Aug 20 2010, 01:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795520"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Idea #1: Lerks MUST be able to flying in a direction other than forward.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you can only fly forward and you must face a marine to attack and you are a fragile lifeform.... Uh, do I really have to explain this one?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's called dodging and turning and being sneaky. And it's not even as bad as NS1 there you had to freakin' melee bite them.
<!--quoteo(post=1795556:date=Aug 20 2010, 08:28 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Aug 20 2010, 08:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795556"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why would any creature be able to fly in any other direction than forward?? it would just feel wierd, and look wierd.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Forward meaning the camera angle, not the creature's orientation.
I feel like I've been repeating myself. Some amount of 'head-turn' or 'neck-turn' is basically a pseudo-strafe maneuver. If you put A & D as a way to shift the x-hairs ~45 degrees to side Left/Right horizontally, you have created a 'air-drifting' maneuver that would be ideal for 'dog-fighting' JPers and pulling off cool strafing arcs of flight.
Because the mouse would still be controlling the view (only shifted ~45 horizontally), it would also still be in control of the flight-path. This would certainly need to be limited somehow. Maybe some reduction in air-speed during the strafing, or maybe it needs to be either closer to 30 or 60 degrees to be effective.
I just think this method would be pretty easy to pick-up but difficult to master. The way you would maneuver as a lerk would be very important.
I think allowing the lerk to fly in any direction by pressing the WASD keys would be great. W goes forward and is the fastest, A and D go left and right at a slower speed, and S goes backwards at the slowest speed. Space bar would make the lerk go up if pressed by itself and increase speed if held and combined with another key. Pressing crouch would make the lerk go down if pressed and decrease speed if held and combined with another key.
Pressing opposite keys simultaneously (W+S, A+D, Space+Crouch) would do nothing. Pressing them consecutively would make the second movement brake the first until the second movement takes over.
If the lerk looks up and presses W, the lerk goes up quickly. If the lerk looks down and presses W, the lerk goes down quickly. Looking down and pressing S goes up as fast as Spacebar does, and looking up and pressing S goes down as fast as Crouch does.
It's super easy to explain (Use WASD just like normal, with up and down movement thrown in) and super easy to get the hand of.
It is definitely difficult to master, but not because players must be amazingly talented to fight the controls to do anything cool. It's tough to fly well because that requires creativity and spatial thinking.
I also think that flying in loops or barrel rolls are straight out for NS2 because of horizon-alignment issues. Flying upside down or sidways is possible, which might sound like a huge amount of fun, but is really just difficult to play with and you end up religiously aligning yourself to the horizon anyway.
So some options sort of have to be left out. Spinning and looping are necessary for advanced maneuvers that make people's heads explode, but aligning yourself to the horizon really sucks. I assume just falling to the ground would realign you, but then falling to the ground so you can fly better is counter intuitive to say the least.
Edit: That's all opinion, though. If a flying system works, it works.
flapping adds velocity in the direction you're looking +30 degrees. gliding quickly converts all velocity perpendicular to your look plane. velocity in any direction is limited by some terminal velocity that would take 4-5 flaps in one direction to achieve. tapping flap from the ground would add an initial velocity equivalent to a +jump.
one thing that would be neat is adding roll i.e. gliding in a different direction than you're moving does a slight view rotation to indicate a roll/tilt in the model.
I think 3.x flight should work fine pretty well, though the addition of a strafe function similar to what others have said would be nice where holding A or D will let you aim at something however many degrees to the left or right of your actual flight path(not many) personally I like the idea of lerk spikes, but maybe give them some kind of impact damage if they ram a marine in flight, I mean the spikes sticking out of their mouth are then stabbing the marine no? less damaging than a bite but still enough to make the risk worthwhile, like enough to kill an unarmored marine with a handful of spike hits on the way in. I'm intrigued by the idea of them being able to carry smaller aliens like skulks and gorges, say they roost on them and can then carry them off, who needs a lurk that can bite when they can spike the marine on the way up and then basically torpedo bomb said marine with a skulk? obviously there would be agility penalties for the lerk.
Just don't make flying so drenched in"realism" it becomes a gimmick and tedious to control. You want it to take some sort of skill rather than a movement for a means to end end. As whee said 2 posts behind, NS1 lerk movement is perfectly fine, maybe add 1-2 new moves.
<!--quoteo(post=1795683:date=Aug 21 2010, 05:05 PM:name=QuadLMGkill)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (QuadLMGkill @ Aug 21 2010, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just don't make flying so drenched in"realism" it becomes a gimmick and tedious to control. You want it to take some sort of skill rather than a movement for a means to end end. As whee said 2 posts behind, NS1 lerk movement is perfectly fine, maybe add 1-2 new moves.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This. Fun > Realism. Especially in a Sci fi game.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
im just worried about of having a flight model that makes is difficult to fly + shoot / aim. it would limit you more or less to camp in a vent and shoot from there. I want to be able to choose if i want to play aggressive or defensive. harrassing with spores and spikes from the distance isnt aggressive.
if you add a system that increases spike dmg depending on the distance to your target, then you need to be able to flight + shoot/aim.
<!--quoteo(post=1794903:date=Aug 18 2010, 07:10 AM:name=Rulgrok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rulgrok @ Aug 18 2010, 07:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794903"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->when gliding moving the mouse changes pitch and yaw<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this guy trolling? This is already the way that NS1 lerk flight model works.
I think we need to be very careful with any changes to the model. Going beyond the zenith angle is all very well but it would be insanely confusing if you just want to fly straight up and end up flying in the opposite horizontal direction. You guys are worried about how much skill the NS1 lerk flight model takes already and you want to make it more complex?
Roll is something we have to think through. Suggestions are all very well but you have to be thorough. There has to be a reason to include roll. I guess the way it would work is that strafe keys begin rolling and roll to a maximum of 90 degrees after maybe a second. The question is, how does this improve the lerk? Rolling is used in real life to turn more rapidly. The reason for this is that planes generally only have 1 central tail fin, which is a lot less effective than the spatially separate wing fins. The reason this turns the plane more rapidly compared to the NS1 lerk being able to yaw instantaneously is because of momentum. Inertia is a horrible thing when it comes to simplicity within games. The lerk has effectively no inertia whilst gliding since you can stop and turn instantaneously.
The only reason to implement roll therefore is if you implement inertia. I strongly urge you not to, since this adds further to the complexity in the flight model, turning noobs off to the idea of learning to lerk.
TL;DR Roll on it's own would be purely an aesthetic improvement. Don't waste valuable development time on it unless you plan to implement an unwieldy momentum system.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Suggestions to make flight like NS 1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Lerk feels heavier, reduce its weight so it gets more air time from a single wing flap.
Also a way to hang to the ceiling in a bat-like manner would make for nice BOO moments
<!--quoteo(post=1795916:date=Aug 23 2010, 05:27 PM:name=Sublime)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sublime @ Aug 23 2010, 05:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795916"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is this guy trolling? This is already the way that NS1 lerk flight model works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As for roosting, I think it would be great. But why make it an upgrade.
You could just have it so when you flew into the ceiling (and released spacebar) you instantly roost. So you can roost hop between rooms.
I agree, adding roll and inertia would only be useful if there was a bomb like upgrade, and you could direct the bomb forward, rather than down during release.
And it would therefore probably be called listing.
Personally I prefer for down to be the floor, so only roll the view if you are either not subject to gravity and thus there is no floor, or if you are stuck to a wall and thus that is now the floor.
There's no reason to ever change someone's orientation to the floor. It doesn't serve any purpose, and will disorient people unnecessarily. Have you played aliens vs. predator? The game is motion sickness just waiting for a pair of eyes. It doesn't make sense for skulks walking on walls and it doesn't make sense for any other type of alien either.
<!--quoteo(post=1796194:date=Aug 25 2010, 12:50 AM:name=PILL)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PILL @ Aug 25 2010, 12:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1796194"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's no reason to ever change someone's orientation to the floor. It doesn't serve any purpose, and will disorient people unnecessarily. Have you played aliens vs. predator? The game is motion sickness just waiting for a pair of eyes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree. Tell me this wouldn't make you forget what the floor is or what direction your going?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nqKcuFUe_c" target="_blank">Skulk Rotation Test (You-Tube)</a>
Yes skulk rotation would be absolutely horrible. As long as they limited the rotation on roll to 45 or 90 degrees though, it wouldn't be too disorienting. I still say this is a really, really bad idea though.
A. The floor was always highlighted in some way, so it was clear where you were headed. (Because you can't have a sense of gravity in games)
B. Holding forward whilst climbing moved you at the same speed over any obstacle, and was not dependent on view direction.
When we run to catch a ball (irl) you don't have to think about running, even when the ground is far from flat (yes it might result in injury but can still be done).
Wall climbing should be made much easier so that you can focus on the tactics of an attack, not how you are going to climb the wall before you attack.
Comments
While it sounds kinda neato, this is a FPS game and not a flight simulator.
I thought the 3.2 flight model worked just find overall. Making Lerk flight more complex, while opening up cool variety, may just make it a pain to learn and Lerks a "must master mechanics first" class. Considering that players need to learn all the lifeforms already, and I know of many new players who left because it was too hard to learn them all, I don't think increasing the complexity is a good thing.
A perch/roost feature might be nice to grab onto wall/ceilings, but that's all I would change personally.
I posted some code in the mod forum that does that, if you're looking down it reduces the lift from your flaps progressively the more you face down, so if you look straight down your flaps push you straight down only. (normally a flap pushes you in the direction you're looking, plus some upward acceleration too. That's why you can't dive in 3.2 - when looking down your flap pushes you down and up at the same time)
The code i posted allows strafe flapping and gliding, which 3.2 doesn't have and I think we're better off without it.
Direction relative to where you are looking is really intuitive and it worked the first time around, I think a lot of the concern is overblown here. Charlie and the team got it right for ns1 twice, they can definitely figure it out with time and sanity to spare :D
spikes are already in. lerk is a support class with sniping and bombing runs by design. the range on the spikes is such that you have to be relatively close, like 10 yards unless you're sniping. the hanging from the ceiling is for initiating spike strafing runs from above.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When you want to do the strafe stuff you have to tell the system where you want to go while you are flying, so when you want to continue going forward while aimed backwards you simply have to strafe to the side and eventually hit the right keys so you end up holding the S key while you keep aiming. Eventually you reorient yourself<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't consider that a glide-look mode. That is just an air-strafe. To describe it in Mech Warrior terms, I'd like the lerk to be able to torso-twist. Moving in one direction while aiming in another. But I still want the mouse-look to effect the angle of flight always. Think of it like a marine or skulk jump-strafing. They are going in a direction 90 degrees relative to their x-hair. I think the problem with allowing a lerk to fly-strafe backwards or even 90 degrees is that it has basically become a jet-pack. There is no sense of flight/glide like the current NS1 lerk. That is why I think some sort of limitation on lerk air-strafing would be good. Probably about 45 degrees or so (anything above 90 would seem fairly odd IMO). This requires the lerk to fly mostly forward to have any kind of horizontal speed, but would still allow for a familiar kind of FPS strafing maneuvers while in flight.
this 3 fly styles could be mixed, for example: flapping sidewards around a corner and shoot some spikes -> marines put attention to you -> change flystyle to directional and escape to the next vent. or, if some bigger fight takes place with lot of confusion: fly over the crowd, shoot some spores / spikes while you are gliding and aiming down.
Additional the wallwalking from skulk should be the same for lerk, makes no sense actually that skulks can move like that and lerks not.
If you can only fly forward and you must face a marine to attack and you are a fragile lifeform.... Uh, do I really have to explain this one?
Lerks won't be able to fly while shooting. We want the flying alien to fly around almost all the time. Telling them to stop flying so they can fight is not just Bad Game Design, it's the Worst Game Design Ever Conceived.
Maybe if Lerks became completely incapable of flight if marines come within 20 meters, that could possibly be worse.
Idea #2: Lerks MUST have a smooth flying model.
If flying reduces your accuracy by a ###### ton.... Uh, do I really have to explain this one?
Lerks won't be able to fly while shooting. We want flying aliens to use flight as more than just transporation. If Lerks cannot be flying around 99% of the time in combat, we have more Worst Game Design Ever Imagined.
Well, not the worst, but still Very Bad Game Design.
tl;dr: <!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>If lerks can't shoot and fly at the same time, that is the Worst Game Design Ever Imagined.</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Why?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you can only fly forward and you must face a marine to attack and you are a fragile lifeform.... Uh, do I really have to explain this one?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's called dodging and turning and being sneaky. And it's not even as bad as NS1 there you had to freakin' melee bite them.
Forward meaning the camera angle, not the creature's orientation.
Because the mouse would still be controlling the view (only shifted ~45 horizontally), it would also still be in control of the flight-path. This would certainly need to be limited somehow. Maybe some reduction in air-speed during the strafing, or maybe it needs to be either closer to 30 or 60 degrees to be effective.
I just think this method would be pretty easy to pick-up but difficult to master. The way you would maneuver as a lerk would be very important.
Pressing opposite keys simultaneously (W+S, A+D, Space+Crouch) would do nothing. Pressing them consecutively would make the second movement brake the first until the second movement takes over.
If the lerk looks up and presses W, the lerk goes up quickly. If the lerk looks down and presses W, the lerk goes down quickly. Looking down and pressing S goes up as fast as Spacebar does, and looking up and pressing S goes down as fast as Crouch does.
It's super easy to explain (Use WASD just like normal, with up and down movement thrown in) and super easy to get the hand of.
It is definitely difficult to master, but not because players must be amazingly talented to fight the controls to do anything cool. It's tough to fly well because that requires creativity and spatial thinking.
I also think that flying in loops or barrel rolls are straight out for NS2 because of horizon-alignment issues. Flying upside down or sidways is possible, which might sound like a huge amount of fun, but is really just difficult to play with and you end up religiously aligning yourself to the horizon anyway.
So some options sort of have to be left out. Spinning and looping are necessary for advanced maneuvers that make people's heads explode, but aligning yourself to the horizon really sucks. I assume just falling to the ground would realign you, but then falling to the ground so you can fly better is counter intuitive to say the least.
Edit: That's all opinion, though. If a flying system works, it works.
flapping adds velocity in the direction you're looking +30 degrees. gliding quickly converts all velocity perpendicular to your look plane. velocity in any direction is limited by some terminal velocity that would take 4-5 flaps in one direction to achieve. tapping flap from the ground would add an initial velocity equivalent to a +jump.
one thing that would be neat is adding roll i.e. gliding in a different direction than you're moving does a slight view rotation to indicate a roll/tilt in the model.
This. Fun > Realism. Especially in a Sci fi game.
if you add a system that increases spike dmg depending on the distance to your target, then you need to be able to flight + shoot/aim.
Is this guy trolling? This is already the way that NS1 lerk flight model works.
I think we need to be very careful with any changes to the model. Going beyond the zenith angle is all very well but it would be insanely confusing if you just want to fly straight up and end up flying in the opposite horizontal direction. You guys are worried about how much skill the NS1 lerk flight model takes already and you want to make it more complex?
Roll is something we have to think through. Suggestions are all very well but you have to be thorough. There has to be a reason to include roll. I guess the way it would work is that strafe keys begin rolling and roll to a maximum of 90 degrees after maybe a second. The question is, how does this improve the lerk? Rolling is used in real life to turn more rapidly. The reason for this is that planes generally only have 1 central tail fin, which is a lot less effective than the spatially separate wing fins. The reason this turns the plane more rapidly compared to the NS1 lerk being able to yaw instantaneously is because of momentum. Inertia is a horrible thing when it comes to simplicity within games. The lerk has effectively no inertia whilst gliding since you can stop and turn instantaneously.
The only reason to implement roll therefore is if you implement inertia. I strongly urge you not to, since this adds further to the complexity in the flight model, turning noobs off to the idea of learning to lerk.
TL;DR Roll on it's own would be purely an aesthetic improvement. Don't waste valuable development time on it unless you plan to implement an unwieldy momentum system.
The Lerk feels heavier, reduce its weight so it gets more air time from a single wing flap.
Also a way to hang to the ceiling in a bat-like manner would make for nice BOO moments
He probably means roll.
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/RPY_angles_of_ships.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
As for roosting, I think it would be great. But why make it an upgrade.
You could just have it so when you flew into the ceiling (and released spacebar) you instantly roost. So you can roost hop between rooms.
I agree, adding roll and inertia would only be useful if there was a bomb like upgrade, and you could direct the bomb forward, rather than down during release.
Personally I prefer for down to be the floor, so only roll the view if you are either not subject to gravity and thus there is no floor, or if you are stuck to a wall and thus that is now the floor.
I agree. Tell me this wouldn't make you forget what the floor is or what direction your going?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nqKcuFUe_c" target="_blank">Skulk Rotation Test (You-Tube)</a>
A. The floor was always highlighted in some way, so it was clear where you were headed. (Because you can't have a sense of gravity in games)
B. Holding forward whilst climbing moved you at the same speed over any obstacle, and was not dependent on view direction.
When we run to catch a ball (irl) you don't have to think about running, even when the ground is far from flat (yes it might result in injury but can still be done).
Wall climbing should be made much easier so that you can focus on the tactics of an attack, not how you are going to climb the wall before you attack.
This could be done for other classes as well.