Jetpack + SMG = Dead Onos
Papayas
Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
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I see but I am trying to say this from a 1 v 1 point of view.
An Onos is supposed to die to about 3 marines not 1. There is nothing to really counter them when they are flying, only shooting them with the lerk.
thats like saying that in SC2 it's lame that a collossus has no chance against flying units.
Its all how you use it and when and where.
On an open map with lots of air space it needs to grow wings or get airlifted by 5 lerks to be badass :) *chuckles*
JPs are supposed to be a strong counter to Onos, why would you change that? Onos were a good counter to heavy trains - stomp+devour. JPs were easy meat if you caught them in room or corridor with low ceilings. An onos shouldn't be on his own in a wide space trying to solo a JP. Of course you will get owned. Onos were a great way to lure a blood hungry JPer into a trap.
I used to love being lerk and attacking distracted JPers, softening them up with spores and moving in for the kill. Or parasiting as a skulk, waiting for them to move our through a doorway due to low gas and timing a good leap. Or using web and well placed OCs as a gorge, you know team work. But I guess you only played pubs.
on a side note: i really hope they consider bringing devour back :(
I thinks he wants us to introduce a barrett. And this thread is funny btw.
An onos can't own an entire marine team in NS1...
Maybe you've only played on xmenu/etc servers. Try typing /xmenu into your console.
on a side note: i really hope they consider bringing devour back :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me. Too.
Was seriously sadface when I heard them say that.
Was seriously sadface when I heard them say that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope they don't. I don't like getting NOM NOM NOM by a fatty... :(
LOL.
Also, I've never had too much of a problem as an Onos with JPers in the stock NS1 maps. There were very little large open areas that made JPs effective enough unless I did something stupid. Jump + Devour or just wait for them to do something stupid. If you plan on countering an 3+ JPers as an Onos, plan on dying.
It is the custom maps that really make life as an Onos miserable. It is then that you have to learn how to use Charge.
Also, why the hell aren't webs going to be in NS2? They were fantastic, especially for combat-only. Was great having Gorges trap marines and set up some sort of last ditch defense in an area already populated with marines. Of course, it was particularly useful against jetpackets (and balanced by the welder/GL).
Let's wait for both the NS2 Onos and Jetpack before judging things.
Also, NS2 is not NS1. People have a chance of correctly applying NS1 rules to skulks and marines. With higher tech, there is very little chance. It could be vastly different (and it already is!).
on a side note: i really hope they consider bringing devour back :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't aware they planned on removing devour, this makes me sadface.
Marine /w welder = gorge
Marine /w JP = lerk
Marine /w heavy != (fade || onos).
Maybe a Marine /w JP + Shotgun = fade, but a heavy with any weapon is still onos food.
EDIT: i just want to point out that the shotgun is a close quarter weapon that makes it VERY similar to the effective range of the fade attacks... so that means the shotgun is practically a melee weapon (in the sense that the fades speed make it just as effective as a marine with a shotgun).
So the game is so similiar between the aliens and marines (almost identical units and goals), that the fact the marines do not possess a tank makes the presence of the onos an unbalancing factor to the game. That's probably why devour was ###### canned.
Marine /w welder = gorge
Marine /w JP = lerk
Marine /w heavy != (fade || onos).
Maybe a Marine /w JP + Shotgun = fade, but a heavy with any weapon is still onos food.
So the game is so similiar between the aliens and marines (almost identical units and goals), that the fact the marines do not possess a tank makes the presence of the onos an unbalancing factor to the game. That's probably why devour was ###### canned.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades and Onos are really hard to kill, but that makes the game great, you need to work as a team to take them out.
And there needs to be class diversity. You can have a team of marines+welders. You can't have a team of gorges. A fade and a lerk work well together, moreso than two fades. Shtoguns are great at taking down buildings, but HMGs are usually better against player units. (In NS1 standards at least)
There isn't really a way to make a linear scale on which you can place all units and classes. That's what makes the game so interesting. It's not a pistol -> smg -> rifle evolution game.
I think this should be a good time to remind you once again that siege maps are not part of UWE's vision of the game, but you don't seem to want to understand that.
Upgrades... here's level 3 damage. Now go kill all those fades and onoses with a lmg.
Armor 3... now it takes 2 mouse clicks for the fade to tear you in half as opposed to the 1 click at level 1 armor.
<!--quoteo(post=1793156:date=Aug 9 2010, 02:21 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Aug 9 2010, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1793156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And there needs to be class diversity. You can have a team of marines+welders. <u>You can't have a team of gorges</u>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's called a gorge rush.
<!--quoteo(post=1793156:date=Aug 9 2010, 02:21 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Aug 9 2010, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1793156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A fade and a lerk work well together, <u>moreso than two fades</u>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You haven't played with the fades i have. 2 high-quality fades can equal gg more often then not... and i'm saying this assuming full marine and alien teams, where the majority of the aliens are doing nothing... that 2 good fades can tip the scale in their favor.
<!--quoteo(post=1793156:date=Aug 9 2010, 02:21 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Aug 9 2010, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1793156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There isn't really a way to make a linear scale on which you can place all units and classes. That's what makes the game so interesting. It's not a pistol -> smg -> rifle evolution game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure why you say it's impossible to write on a piece of paper all units and classes. How else can you even begin to balance the game.
Btw how much more linear can it be that if you encounter onoses then you NEED jetpacks.
If you don't design ways for one team to counter the attacks of another then your game will only be enjoyable for 1 of the 2 teams in every circumstance. I think this is why the devs took out devour and webs and changed how the fades blink, and slowed down the alien team in general. Funny, all these steps to balance the game require nerfing the ###### out of the alien team.
<!--quoteo(post=1793156:date=Aug 9 2010, 02:21 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Aug 9 2010, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1793156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this should be a good time to remind you once again that siege maps are not part of UWE's vision of the game, but you don't seem to want to understand that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never mentioned siege maps.
Armor 3... now it takes 2 mouse clicks for the fade to tear you in half as opposed to the 1 click at level 1 armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was assuming a somewhat serious game. A game where you're handed a3/w3 is not a somewhat serious game.
Gorge rushes aren't anywhere near viable. And, contrarily to a team of 5 marines+welders (strictly superior to a team of 5 marines), a team of 5 gorges is inferior to a mix of gorges and skulks.
Obviously two fades work really well (and yes, I have seen my fair share of amazing fades), but they don't have the synergy that a lerk can bring to the board (with gas harassment). What I meant to say is that the second fade is probably not worth the extra res compared to a lerk. Lerks are a very essential unit, at least as soon as teamwork is needed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure why you say it's impossible to write on a piece of paper all units and classes. How else can you even begin to balance the game.
Btw how much more linear can it be that if you encounter onoses then you NEED jetpacks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did I say it's impossible to write them on a piece of paper? I've said it's impossible to queue marine units in such a way where each successive element is strictly superior to its predecessor.
That's totally different from action/reaction. That is my point exactly, it's a paper-rock-scissors model. Lerks are a bad choice against HAs. HAs are a bad choice against Onos. Onos are a bad choice against Jetpacks. NS1 Onoses are not at the top of the food chain.
also it true that it is rts/fps so that technically if you're team does not support the onos then GG. (fades and lerks will own jetpackers, and so will skulks to some extent)
and if the entire team is onos then its gg anyway.
troll: ###### off
you can't do a 1v1 comparison in a war
there are always positives and negatives.
Real life scenario:
M1A1 tank, has large amount of fire power & bullet invulnerability, but very vulnerable to RPG fire.
Soldiers do not carry as much fire power as a tank, are vulnerable to bullets, but are great for covering the tank against RPG fire.
This here is a symbiotic relationship where they both have to take care of each other to survive.
Where ever there is a tank in hostile territory,
there will always be marines or soldiers to protect this hundred million dollar war machine.
The cost of the tank is much more than the cost of a soldier,
so you can bet your life the government will protect it.
My only problem with the jet pack is that with the machinegun,
is it a pain in the ARSE to kill them especially,
if there's 3 or more of them in a room;
you might as well give up on that room & call that gg because you're not going to take them down on your own.
(we're assuming they're good & work together obviously)
is it a pain in the ARSE to kill them especially,
if there's 3 or more of them in a room;
you might as well give up on that room & call that gg because you're not going to take them down on your own.
(we're assuming they're good & work together obviously)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lots of fans to chop them up!!!! I'll get right on that!!!!!!!!!
Really though, If the jetpack flight is as bad as the lerks current flight then you will have no worries, they will simply glide right to you. think of it as disguising yourself as a giant bug light.
So because the "zomg I HATE paralyse attacks!!!" crowd have got their way, it looks like jetpacks will be overpowered. There's nothing to stop a good jetpacker from zooming all over the place - and by good, I mean one who knows how to conserve and maintain his/her fuel level. If you have a group of them armed with HMG's/Flamethrowers/Nade Launchers, I'm not sure what we're going to be able to do given the current listed abilities. No paralysis, no slow-down, nothing - just melee or hydra and hope the heavily armed, hard-to-hit jetpackers don't kill the entire team too quickly.
On the note of critics of the paralyse attacks, including some of the developers seemingly, I guess you all hate L4D too huh, what with Hunters, Tanks, Smokers, Chargers, Jockeys all with these much hated paralyse abilities - yeah, what a horrible, unpopular game that is (sarcasm in case anyone missed it).