<!--quoteo(post=1792666:date=Aug 7 2010, 12:26 PM:name=Kwil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kwil @ Aug 7 2010, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792666"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unfortunately, it seems most who have been arguing for marine building weren't arguing for a better system that can keep the advantages to gameplay of the MAC, but rather just arguing for the old system they were familiar with -- except with an extra building ###### besides the commander to help them along.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Those who argue against marine building on the other hand have no idea what building was all about in NS1. It wasnt just pressing E, it was positioning yourself(builder), optionally guard while keeping map awaress counting aliens seeing while listening info about movement on ventrilo. Picking off MAC can be pulled off by anyone but marine building is not 100% guarantee. While need of MAC in the field may sound interesting chances are it can be picked of by decent skulk which leads to commander sending out new MAC instead of closest marine, this is inferior compared to marines building.
Can we conclude that MAC only building is supported only by those who lack the skill to take down RT builder or are unable kill skulk when building a resource tower? If you are doing things incorrectly this does not mean something has to be changed but instead you have change / learn how it is really done.
<!--quoteo(post=1792671:date=Aug 7 2010, 10:08 AM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Aug 7 2010, 10:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792671"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those who argue against marine building on the other hand have no idea what building was all about in NS1. It wasnt just pressing E, it was positioning yourself(builder), optionally guard while keeping map awaress counting aliens seeing while listening info about movement on ventrilo. Picking off MAC can be pulled off by anyone but marine building is not 100% guarantee. While need of MAC in the field may sound interesting chances are it can be picked of by decent skulk which leads to commander sending out new MAC instead of closest marine, this is inferior compared to marines building.
Can we conclude that MAC only building is supported only by those who lack the skill to take down RT builder or are unable kill skulk when building a resource tower? If you are doing things incorrectly this does not mean something has to be changed but instead you have change / learn how it is really done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*nod*
When I hear some kid going "marine building was so boring" I tend to mentally shut off and move on until I see a mature response from someone who actually understands and was mildly competent in NS1. Building was a means to /many/ ends, something they clearly do not understand. It's changing to a compromise anyway, I can live with that. :P
No different to bnet forums with bronze players whining about "imbalances" which funnily enough, people even on medium leagues have no issues with. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, and that's fine by me but being taken seriously is something you have to earn.
<!--quoteo(post=1792597:date=Aug 6 2010, 07:45 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Aug 6 2010, 07:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792597"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1) Doesn't even make sense and you're thinking about 2) in context of NS1. If this was NS1 I would agree with you but NS2 has much more streamlined maps and standing next to a MAC may be not this horrible "great now I have to escort this thing to some random hallway for no reason" mission that everyone is making it out to be. When there are 8 players on a team and only two or three paths to go down you're going to have to go out of your way to not be a team player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where in the world are you getting this idea that maps will be this small and stream lined? I believe Cory admitted not to long ago on a post that tram is one of the smaller maps and the ones that are going to be released later will be much more massive. Even just going by the small map we have now, you have to escort the MAC's.. which for me feels like a escort mission. So yes.. your #2 theory isn't even a theory since it's already a proven fact, because..well that's how it is in the alpha, I mean you have played it right?
<!--quoteo(post=1792666:date=Aug 7 2010, 04:26 AM:name=Kwil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kwil @ Aug 7 2010, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792666"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not as bad of a problem then, because at least they have to get the MAC up to the front lines. But once there, a savvy commander would have it start building every building there before using it to complete any of them, thus nearly eliminating the need to protect it. If marines could only speed up the process on the structure that the MAC was currently building, that'd be even better. And in fact, that might nicely handle the one lack that no marine building had -- making the tactical decision as to how many would stop defending in order to rush a structure to completion. As Steve has pointed out, it makes balancing the teams more of a bear, especially because there's always an element of map dependency.. but we're talking about the team that managed to put a ranged team vs a melee team on a razor's edge balance, so I'm fairly confident that could be handled.
Unfortunately, it seems most who have been arguing for marine building weren't arguing for a better system that can keep the advantages to gameplay of the MAC, but rather just arguing for the old system they were familiar with -- except with an extra building ###### besides the commander to help them along.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure why everyone keeps mentioning that we want it only because it was in NS1.. MAAAANY things are in NS2 that aren't in one and do you see threads about them? No because those are good changes that the majority agrees on. Here is the thing, even if I never played ns1, my stance would be the same, only difference would be the experiences I've had with the building aspect of the game, but just strictly based on the game play I would want marines to build regardless of ANYTHING NS1. Let's say for example NS1 had MAC's and marines couldn't build.. my stance would be exactly the same, that marines should build also, why can't people understand this? It has nothing and I repeat NOTHING to do with the fact that is was a part of NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=1792540:date=Aug 7 2010, 06:31 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Aug 7 2010, 06:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Too bad. NS2's improvements over the RTS aspect is what I was looking forward to the most. Shame to see such a critical element to the RTS gameplay diminished before actual testing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Agreed.
<!--quoteo(post=1792558:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:10 AM:name=DaveKap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaveKap @ Aug 7 2010, 07:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How else are they going to test whether this is a good or bad idea without, I dunno, having us test it?! NS2 is still in such a flexible state that marine building might be taken out completely, again, and for the better (for all we know)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I doubt it. I see a worrying trend when it comes to listening to those who are most vocal (who generally tend to be the ones wanting to maintain the NS1 status quo). The concept of supply lines would have added a huge amount to the strategic aspect of the game, but that's been entirely diminished.
<!--quoteo(post=1792558:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:10 AM:name=DaveKap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaveKap @ Aug 7 2010, 07:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->without remembering we are in an alpha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->and<!--quoteo(post=1792578:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:56 AM:name=DaveKap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaveKap @ Aug 7 2010, 07:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792578"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->C'mon guys, the game isn't even playable from a "it's a game" point of view yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I agree... so marine building was reintroduced this early why?
It's a fact of life that when you take out or replace something old ("tried and true"), and the new thing doesn't fare too well at first (because it hasn't yet had the opportunity to fully develop), and then you reintroduce the old thing as a quick fix (rather than properly developing and trialing the new thing), you're going to find it just about impossible to unseat the old thing again. One apparent failure is all it takes. Heirarchical (e.g. career) advancement opportunities. Political parties or figures in power. Video game features.
<!--quoteo(post=1792565:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:26 AM:name=LlamaFarmer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LlamaFarmer @ Aug 7 2010, 07:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792565"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because they are allowing marines to build doesnt mean they are changing the gameplay drastically. Theres many variations on the ideas of how to let marines build.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not a drastic change to the on-the-ground gameplay, but certainly a drastic change to the metagame.
<!--quoteo(post=1792677:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:47 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Aug 7 2010, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->MAAAANY things are in NS2 that aren't in one and do you see threads about them?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Like the short-lived electric pistol thing for example.
<!--quoteo(post=1792677:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:47 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Aug 7 2010, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No because those are good changes that the majority agrees on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The majority of... the vocal minority, you mean?
<!--quoteo(post=1792540:date=Aug 6 2010, 05:31 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Aug 6 2010, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Too bad. NS2's improvements over the RTS aspect is what I was looking forward to the most. Shame to see such a critical element to the RTS gameplay diminished before actual testing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could not agree more. Shame on all those whiners that would rather have NS2 be a clone of NS1 with better graphics.
<!--quoteo(post=1792676:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:39 AM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Aug 7 2010, 07:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792676"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where in the world are you getting this idea that maps will be this small and stream lined?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here's a post by KFS, introduced by Flayra as UWE's lead mapper, explaining the power grid system after it was announced. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=106143&st=160&p=1705052&#entry1705052" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...p;#entry1705052</a>
The gist of it:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When we say "smaller"...It's definitely pulled in a bit, but you're mostly seeing a reduction in the pointless corridor winding through the middle of the level...in general, assume that maps will be on the small side of the ns_ maps, but a good bit larger than the co_ maps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note the picture and information found in the mapping guidelines encouraging people to reduce clutter, worthless hallways, and maps with six to ten rooms with short hallways connecting them. There's a very good chance you're not going to be following MACs around random hallways just waiting for it to finish building. You're going to be in a room with three or four other guys frantically trying to kill the aliens, welding or trying to take hits for the MAC, and you may even forget you're escorting it in all of the intensity.
This is exactly why UWE should not listen to people on the forums. TheGivingTree had no idea NS2 maps are more streamlined than NS1 maps and he's making his "I don't want to escort!" statements in ignorance and in terms of NS1. How many other people are doing the same thing? When it's an 8v8 and there are 8 rooms on a map you're going to have to go out of your way to not protect a MAC.
If UWE is going to make major changes to how their game plays out based only on community reaction I wish the community would at least read the material out there about NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1792730:date=Aug 7 2010, 01:54 PM:name=5EuroSchein)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (5EuroSchein @ Aug 7 2010, 01:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shame on all those whiners that would rather have NS2 be a clone of NS1 with better graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya I mean MACs assisting with marine building is so NS1...
<!--quoteo(post=1789412:date=Jul 30 2010, 02:24 PM:name=TSS)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TSS @ Jul 30 2010, 02:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1789412"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I Love NS2. Every aspect of it that's ingame so far. Except the above. If you'd ask me, what made NS1 "NS" for me, was the fact that it was a shooter in which you could build buildings. Currently, NS2 is a shooter in which the commander can build buildings, and your just a grunt who's only good for shootn bullits. that's boring. Shooting used to be a means to an end, now it's all ya got. If your outside the hive, with no MAC near, might aswell run in because you can't set up a siege base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 building your own buildings is one of the best things of ns1 and it shouldnt be completely removed
I don't understand why Marine building has been re-introduced...
An escort mission would be an annoyance, I totally agree... but why is the solution to revert back to marine building, I think it makes the mac a 'non' npc unit.
For me, the solution would be to look at the issues with the mac.
If it can be attacked easily on the move, it is either too slow or too weak, or does not have an upgrade that allows it to move further through the level without worry of being attacked (electrify?).
I think it would be good to see it a hard target whilst moving. Thus skulks/lerks jamming buttons to actually make a successful attack on it, which in turn could lead them to be vulnerable because of increased noise, and concentration required to kill it
or
Make it 'a lot' stronger whilst moving through the level, and possibly 'packed up' with arms, etc, to signify this.
The only time it should be very weak is when it is building, but at that point the marines are further forward in the levels and able to defend at the point it is trying to reach. If this is seen as being too strong, maybe there is an option to have webbing within corridors to stop it whilst it welds through.
Currently both teams can send out builders to any area of the level, now with marines, they can push in areas and build. In the meantime the commander can push areas the aliens are not concentrating on and build res without the alien team noticing so much.
It is a hard balance, and I agree that it is only a few people moaning about this. From what I have played online so far (though not very well due to a poor cpu/lag) is that the build time has increased massively with macs being able to move out to specific targets a lot quicker than a human player who does not know the way.
Look how smug TheGivingTree is. Notice that he believes that it has all come to a conclusion already. This is not over yet, no matter how much you wish to think it is - or try to convince others. The problem was not solved, it was given a band-aid so the little babies won't cry about their boo-boo.
That is the thing about these forums, its like digital development terrorism. A few people jumping up and down to get things changed rather than discussing an issue that eventually the devs will decide upon, not themselves. Despite what you think.
<!--quoteo(post=1794154:date=Aug 14 2010, 10:51 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Aug 14 2010, 10:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is the thing about these forums, its like digital development terrorism. A few people jumping up and down to get things changed rather than discussing an issue that eventually the devs will decide upon, not themselves. Despite what you think.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Terrorism? No-one held a knife to Flayra's throat and demanded marine building be put back in. People voiced their opinions on an aspect of NS2 gameplay during a period of alpha development on a forum designed to gather such opinions from the community. Obviously the devs want to hear what we have to say, otherwise they wouldn't be asking for feedback. The developers read these opinions, doubtless considered the arguements on both sides, examined their feedback from the alpha so far, and made a decision to change something about the game. Did these comments influence that decision? Most likely, but they didn't do anything more than that. The devs were not forced into this decision.
<!--quoteo(post=1794137:date=Aug 14 2010, 11:27 AM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Aug 14 2010, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794137"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The solution is the problem is already solved, it's time to move on and discuss the many other aspects of this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was not my argument, comments such as above are my argument.. everyone is entitled to their say, but apparently to this guy they are not.
As for marines building, if it is the best option, fair enough. Currently I don't think the game is playable enough to say whether it is or not, considering hit reg (or server lag) is not even good enough to target moving bots.
<!--quoteo(post=1794144:date=Aug 14 2010, 08:08 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Aug 14 2010, 08:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794144"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look how smug TheGivingTree is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The best part is when you <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110696&view=findpost&p=1792733" target="_blank">point out why he's wrong he just ignores you.</a>
I want to see TheGivingTree get into a debate with FocusedWolf.
<!--quoteo(post=1794182:date=Aug 14 2010, 12:24 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Aug 14 2010, 12:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1794182"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Entire thread is personal attacks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The entire forums are, you'll get used to it ;)
Comments
Those who argue against marine building on the other hand have no idea what building was all about in NS1. It wasnt just pressing E, it was positioning yourself(builder), optionally guard while keeping map awaress counting aliens seeing while listening info about movement on ventrilo. Picking off MAC can be pulled off by anyone but marine building is not 100% guarantee. While need of MAC in the field may sound interesting chances are it can be picked of by decent skulk which leads to commander sending out new MAC instead of closest marine, this is inferior compared to marines building.
Can we conclude that MAC only building is supported only by those who lack the skill to take down RT builder or are unable kill skulk when building a resource tower? If you are doing things incorrectly this does not mean something has to be changed but instead you have change / learn how it is really done.
Can we conclude that MAC only building is supported only by those who lack the skill to take down RT builder or are unable kill skulk when building a resource tower? If you are doing things incorrectly this does not mean something has to be changed but instead you have change / learn how it is really done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*nod*
When I hear some kid going "marine building was so boring" I tend to mentally shut off and move on until I see a mature response from someone who actually understands and was mildly competent in NS1. Building was a means to /many/ ends, something they clearly do not understand. It's changing to a compromise anyway, I can live with that. :P
No different to bnet forums with bronze players whining about "imbalances" which funnily enough, people even on medium leagues have no issues with. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, and that's fine by me but being taken seriously is something you have to earn.
Where in the world are you getting this idea that maps will be this small and stream lined? I believe Cory admitted not to long ago on a post that tram is one of the smaller maps and the ones that are going to be released later will be much more massive. Even just going by the small map we have now, you have to escort the MAC's.. which for me feels like a escort mission. So yes.. your #2 theory isn't even a theory since it's already a proven fact, because..well that's how it is in the alpha, I mean you have played it right?
Unfortunately, it seems most who have been arguing for marine building weren't arguing for a better system that can keep the advantages to gameplay of the MAC, but rather just arguing for the old system they were familiar with -- except with an extra building ###### besides the commander to help them along.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure why everyone keeps mentioning that we want it only because it was in NS1.. MAAAANY things are in NS2 that aren't in one and do you see threads about them? No because those are good changes that the majority agrees on. Here is the thing, even if I never played ns1, my stance would be the same, only difference would be the experiences I've had with the building aspect of the game, but just strictly based on the game play I would want marines to build regardless of ANYTHING NS1. Let's say for example NS1 had MAC's and marines couldn't build.. my stance would be exactly the same, that marines should build also, why can't people understand this? It has nothing and I repeat NOTHING to do with the fact that is was a part of NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=1792558:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:10 AM:name=DaveKap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaveKap @ Aug 7 2010, 07:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How else are they going to test whether this is a good or bad idea without, I dunno, having us test it?! NS2 is still in such a flexible state that marine building might be taken out completely, again, and for the better (for all we know)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I doubt it. I see a worrying trend when it comes to listening to those who are most vocal (who generally tend to be the ones wanting to maintain the NS1 status quo). The concept of supply lines would have added a huge amount to the strategic aspect of the game, but that's been entirely diminished.
<!--quoteo(post=1792558:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:10 AM:name=DaveKap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaveKap @ Aug 7 2010, 07:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->without remembering we are in an alpha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->and<!--quoteo(post=1792578:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:56 AM:name=DaveKap)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaveKap @ Aug 7 2010, 07:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792578"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->C'mon guys, the game isn't even playable from a "it's a game" point of view yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I agree... so marine building was reintroduced this early why?
It's a fact of life that when you take out or replace something old ("tried and true"), and the new thing doesn't fare too well at first (because it hasn't yet had the opportunity to fully develop), and then you reintroduce the old thing as a quick fix (rather than properly developing and trialing the new thing), you're going to find it just about impossible to unseat the old thing again. One apparent failure is all it takes.
Heirarchical (e.g. career) advancement opportunities. Political parties or figures in power. Video game features.
<!--quoteo(post=1792565:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:26 AM:name=LlamaFarmer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LlamaFarmer @ Aug 7 2010, 07:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792565"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because they are allowing marines to build doesnt mean they are changing the gameplay drastically.
Theres many variations on the ideas of how to let marines build.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not a drastic change to the on-the-ground gameplay, but certainly a drastic change to the metagame.
<!--quoteo(post=1792677:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:47 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Aug 7 2010, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->MAAAANY things are in NS2 that aren't in one and do you see threads about them?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Like the short-lived electric pistol thing for example.
<!--quoteo(post=1792677:date=Aug 7 2010, 07:47 PM:name=TheGivingTree)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheGivingTree @ Aug 7 2010, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1792677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No because those are good changes that the majority agrees on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The majority of... the vocal minority, you mean?
Could not agree more. Shame on all those whiners that would rather have NS2 be a clone of NS1 with better graphics.
Here's a post by KFS, introduced by Flayra as UWE's lead mapper, explaining the power grid system after it was announced. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=106143&st=160&p=1705052&#entry1705052" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...p;#entry1705052</a>
The gist of it:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When we say "smaller"...It's definitely pulled in a bit, but you're mostly seeing a reduction in the pointless corridor winding through the middle of the level...in general, assume that maps will be on the small side of the ns_ maps, but a good bit larger than the co_ maps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note the picture and information found in the mapping guidelines encouraging people to reduce clutter, worthless hallways, and maps with six to ten rooms with short hallways connecting them. There's a very good chance you're not going to be following MACs around random hallways just waiting for it to finish building. You're going to be in a room with three or four other guys frantically trying to kill the aliens, welding or trying to take hits for the MAC, and you may even forget you're escorting it in all of the intensity.
This is exactly why UWE should not listen to people on the forums. TheGivingTree had no idea NS2 maps are more streamlined than NS1 maps and he's making his "I don't want to escort!" statements in ignorance and in terms of NS1. How many other people are doing the same thing? When it's an 8v8 and there are 8 rooms on a map you're going to have to go out of your way to not protect a MAC.
If UWE is going to make major changes to how their game plays out based only on community reaction I wish the community would at least read the material out there about NS2.
Ya I mean MACs assisting with marine building is so NS1...
+1 building your own buildings is one of the best things of ns1 and it shouldnt be completely removed
An escort mission would be an annoyance, I totally agree... but why is the solution to revert back to marine building, I think it makes the mac a 'non' npc unit.
For me, the solution would be to look at the issues with the mac.
If it can be attacked easily on the move, it is either too slow or too weak, or does not have an upgrade that allows it to move further through the level without worry of being attacked (electrify?).
I think it would be good to see it a hard target whilst moving. Thus skulks/lerks jamming buttons to actually make a successful attack on it, which in turn could lead them to be vulnerable because of increased noise, and concentration required to kill it
or
Make it 'a lot' stronger whilst moving through the level, and possibly 'packed up' with arms, etc, to signify this.
The only time it should be very weak is when it is building, but at that point the marines are further forward in the levels and able to defend at the point it is trying to reach. If this is seen as being too strong, maybe there is an option to have webbing within corridors to stop it whilst it welds through.
Currently both teams can send out builders to any area of the level, now with marines, they can push in areas and build. In the meantime the commander can push areas the aliens are not concentrating on and build res without the alien team noticing so much.
It is a hard balance, and I agree that it is only a few people moaning about this. From what I have played online so far (though not very well due to a poor cpu/lag) is that the build time has increased massively with macs being able to move out to specific targets a lot quicker than a human player who does not know the way.
Maybe a solution is to make the macs cheaper?
Terrorism? No-one held a knife to Flayra's throat and demanded marine building be put back in. People voiced their opinions on an aspect of NS2 gameplay during a period of alpha development on a forum designed to gather such opinions from the community. Obviously the devs want to hear what we have to say, otherwise they wouldn't be asking for feedback. The developers read these opinions, doubtless considered the arguements on both sides, examined their feedback from the alpha so far, and made a decision to change something about the game. Did these comments influence that decision? Most likely, but they didn't do anything more than that. The devs were not forced into this decision.
That was not my argument, comments such as above are my argument.. everyone is entitled to their say, but apparently to this guy they are not.
As for marines building, if it is the best option, fair enough. Currently I don't think the game is playable enough to say whether it is or not, considering hit reg (or server lag) is not even good enough to target moving bots.
The best part is when you <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110696&view=findpost&p=1792733" target="_blank">point out why he's wrong he just ignores you.</a>
I want to see TheGivingTree get into a debate with FocusedWolf.
The entire forums are, you'll get used to it ;)