walking on walls



  • ShzarShzar Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21098Members, Constellation
    I would like to be able to jump off the walls again. Not the most useful thing, but good to get from one wall to another quickly and to attack marines that are not close to the wall you're perched on. And yes, being able to hold shift to cling to walls was very useful in NS1. Please consider implementing a similar system.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    Small change. Make an option for the player.

  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    edited July 2010
    There are still a variety of things left to be done on the wall walking side, both in code, and in mapping that will allow Skulks to traverse the heavily detailed areas without falling off. Tram still needs to get a pass done on the walls and ceilings with the special invisible no clip brushes that can be used to smooth out surfaces for walking on (those are already being used on the Tram tunnel floor, to keep the player from bouncing up and down with all the different props and rails and other height differences).

    The currently implemented wall walking is in an early rough phase and will continue to be worked on to make it smoother and easier to stay on walls and also to add more complex movement, such as leaping from wall to wall, etc.

    As far as the AvP style of view change, we did try it out on NS1 and did not think it was the right way to go. I'd be surprised if we changed it to that for NS2, but maybe it will be made an option some time down the road.

  • KwilKwil Join Date: 2003-07-06 Member: 17963Members
    My hope is that as a skulk, we will be able to walk on top of DI. If this is the case, then once it comes into play, the problem with small bumps throwing a skulk off the wall will actually be part of the balance between the alien controlled area and marine controlled area. Areas that the aliens control will be filled with DI.. which, judging from the old, old, old video of it, would tend to work toward filling up those small gaps, etc, thus making wall and ceiling walking much smoother. While in the alien area, the roughness of the walls/celings mean that skulks have to proceed slower.

    That's my hope anyway.

    Of course, nothing's saying that a toggle couldn't implement this as well.. SHIFT to cling might also mean somewhat slower movement.
  • Lemming JesusLemming Jesus Join Date: 2010-04-13 Member: 71385Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1788725:date=Jul 29 2010, 02:18 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jul 29 2010, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1788725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->AvP actually had a fairly comfortable wall walking technique that was similar to what you are suggesting, the only thing that hindered it was the nauseating camera angle changes.

    I am in favor of this idea. +1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Exactly. With AVP you can walk over anything perfectly, but the camera moves on every bump. They just need to do the same but steady it out.
  • TerraGamerXTerraGamerX Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58900Members
    When I finally got to play the old AvP, I rather liked the rotating camera. Of course it was disorienting at first, no one could expect to just pick that up and be perfect with it in an instant. There were plenty of times that I wound up back where I started due to that disorientation. But I eventually got used to it. Then, the ceilings became my home, and more enthusiastically than in any other game I was able to bring death from above.

    The wallwalking and jumping in AvP were superb, and that is in part due to the camera (in combination with the cling button). The only problem was it conforming perfectly perpendicular to any surface you were on. But for how great it was back then, then surely it can be done better in modern times. I haven't gotten to play the recent one or any others, so I haven't seen if they already got it right. I can't imagine it would be too difficult with modern engines to get the "mean angle" of the location your on for an averaged out camera adjustment. That single addition is all it would take to make it perfectly usable by everyone. Then everyone should be able to learn it just like they learn any other special alien movement.

    I personally will never let go of the idea of a Skulk getting a rotating view. Even moreso after getting to play the old AvP, as I loved the immersion and tactics it provided. The community will be able to handle it well even if some complain while doing so. The only remaining difficulty would be that mapmakers must take the ability into consideration, or so I imagine. Unfortunately I'll never have the ability to design such a feature myself. But it can't be an option or community added in the first place, as many will dare not to adapt and it is a gameplay-altering feature.

    And if any of these people are being honest about motion sickness rather than making excuses after trying the ability for only a few minutes then giving up ... motion sickness isn't instantaneous. For any frequent-playing gamer, it should take time measured in hours to set in. Just play for no more than two hours, a good enough gaming session, then take a break. Assuming they have self control. If it takes only a few minutes for motion sickness to set in, I bet any FPS is enough to cause motion sickness for that person.

    I think the only thing that will let me ignore the desire for a rotating camera: when a skulk is on the ceiling, have the model of the skulk rotate its neck 180 degrees. That will help the believability of the current system.
    And I'm certain that won't look stupid at all.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    I would like view rotating if it was smooth, but only if it was smooth, otherwise it would give me motion sickness.
  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    edited August 2010
    I am NOT in favour of AVP2 camera esc change.
    I am willing to try an upside down camera but it should NOT be an AVP camera.

    This is why...

    If you have ever played BF2 or Empires mod...
    Do you know how hard it is to sit in the TURRET of a tank as a passanger and fire, whilst the DRIVER of the tank spins his turret around like a loony?
    Yes... Its pretty impossible....

    This is why AVP was broken...
    If the alien moved from one surface to another purpendicular surface the camera moved an entire 90 degrees!
    This is CRAZY we all know that players in NS have 180 degree vision, from straight down to straight up...
    So then why in all that space does the camera not stay still whilst the alien move. (ALIENS DO HAVE NECKS)
    If this was the case and the camera only moved it HAD TO it would not be as confusing.
    As the camera would not move 90 degrees every 10 seconds you are going over MINOR bumps in the ground and ceiling and walls.

    The only case in which your camera should move when you move from one surface to another is if you are looking STRAIGHT DOWN and you move up onto a wall.
    This is because you are at 0 degrees in your view arc of 0 to 180 and you are turning -90 degrees and thus if the camera didnt move you would be looking into your own body...

    Really I dont know why AVP didnt think of this...
    I blame them being idiots.. but that is me.

    So basically the concept I am asking for IF you implement smooth wall walking and ajoined camera IS.

    That everytime the skulk moves from surface to surface the camera assesses the new surface. Works out the differenece in degrees between IT and the last surface.
    THEN assesses what angles YOUR view is at currently and only moves the camera if it has to.


    Current surface 0 next surface +90
    Your view 20
    20+90 = <180
    :. Camera stays still for the viewer and is currently at view 110. (because by not moving it moves.)

    Where as currently the AVP2 system goes.

    Your view is 20
    Surface different is +90...

    Also obveously people will say... !! But what about courners that arnt just up... simple....

    Current Surface 0X 0Y next surface +10X -60Y
    Your View 0X 100Y
    :. Camera stays still for the viewer and is currently at view 10X 40Y.
  • FireStormFireStorm Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7390Members
    I'm all for AvP-style camera for skulks, and in fact I think I'll try to mod it into NS2 when I have some spare time.

    First things first, I think the crouch key needs to be pressed in order to stick to a wall. IMO it should be a volountary move (so it won't happen suddenly when strafing for instance).

    As for the rotating view, I think we should have an option. Enable it to get some immersive gameplay, disable it if you can't bear it.
    About the angle changes: well... I think the math part would be MUCH more difficult to do than what PsympleJester suggested, but it still should be possible. If I manage to get the mod done, I'll be able to experiment on that.

    I play AvP Classic 2000 on steam, and I got very well used to the alien movement. In fact, I absolutely love being an alien in that game. For those who didn't play the game, just try it, it's really worth the 2 bucks ;-)
  • KwilKwil Join Date: 2003-07-06 Member: 17963Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1791035:date=Aug 3 2010, 10:18 AM:name=TerraGamerX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TerraGamerX @ Aug 3 2010, 10:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1791035"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the only thing that will let me ignore the desire for a rotating camera: when a skulk is on the ceiling, have the model of the skulk rotate its neck 180 degrees. That will help the believability of the current system.
    And I'm certain that won't look stupid at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What about if the eyes (which we all know are actually located inside the throat - those outside things are just decoration to make dumb marines think Kharaa have weak points) rotated within the sockets?
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2010
    Who says their mouth eyes even rotate. They're aliens after all. They could have evolved to have auto correcting vision that work off the pressure of gravity(when available)
  • FehaFeha Join Date: 2006-11-16 Member: 58633Members
    its not really vision by eyes, but by the mouth. The whole mouth detect photons (kind of like a human eye, but more wavelengths (hence their highlighting of marines), and then this data is computed into a image, using the highly developed balance sense kharaa have.
    Eyes outside of body is to sensitive to when the skulk goes head-first into marines armor, and inside the mouth they wouldnt survive all the armor with sharp edges it eats.

    This discussion isnt about their physiology like that, but as because they are just bacteria that work like a single big lifeform, ppl argue that it might spin its "image" just for the lulz.

    Kharaa do alot for the lulz
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