Features from NS1 to NS2
T-Striker
Join Date: 2004-08-28 Member: 30990Members
Join Date: 2004-08-28 Member: 30990Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A few old fun things from NS1 to consider for (and against) NS2</div>It seems to be a major misconception these days for there to be fanatics on the side of core NS1 gameplay and making a completely almost unrelated gameplay with NS2. There seems to be little compromising most of the time, so I decided to try and give my own 2 cents on some features I feel need to migrated, but for logical reasons or how it should be done rather than just stating "cause it was in NS1".
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Due note - the big reason for all these is merely cause it made things fun, even though imbalanced at times. Personally, a little imbalance adds a big bit of fun for both sides at times, but it's all trial and error anyways.</b>
Starting off - Recently in the podcast 17 interview, it was stated that the old way of having to hunt down every last player is removed, with the last console or hive being destroyed ending the game. This is both good and bad, as it improves gameplay and time until the next match, but removes one of the things that made NS1 so great - it's utter chaotic insanity and comical fun from having to take out that annoying last hideout.
I think we need it in NS2 - BUT - not overlooking the plan to take it out too. So this is what I suggest for it-
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Allow a server based checkbox for "Search and destroy" mode, where every last player must die on the enemy side after their IP's or Hives are all destroyed. It shouldn't be very hard to code in and will allow people to play a little more by NS1 rules, because lets face it, hiding as the last marines or aliens and trying to prolong death has always been a ton of fun.
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Next up, I haven't been able to find confirmation anywhere, but I've heard lots of rumors the Onos won't have devour. I believe that we need devour, not because of gameplay at all, if anything it'll make it harder to balance, but for fun, devour has ALWAYS been there for us.
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Anyone who has played NS1 remembers the first time they saw an Onos, with marines screaming and someone getting eating and hearing them screaming for the others to kill it before it kills them. The chaos was absolutely histerical. Devour has always just been fun, and in a way is something that has always embodied NS1's alien insanity and chaotic gameplay. It's bizaar and unnecessary elements like this that attract so many of us into NS1. You tell you friend he can eat people and he jumps right in to playing it. It's not balanced, it's just fun, and we all enjoy it a lot.
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Skulk Kamikazie - I KNOW this thing is probably being thought of intensely by the devs. We all both love and hate it, most hate it more - but it's an old NS1 ability and of course deserves to be looked at. The ability to blow yourself up and become a bio grenade, always a useful and annoying trick. Fun, but not as fun as devour and a bit easier to balance than devour but still a bit of trouble. Should it be kept in? Personally I think it will be left out and agree with that, since skulks are a little tougher and bigger now and the dev's will probably give them something better and more useful in exchange. But if it does get pulled over, it should be changed, maybe with the skulk glowing hot red like the gorge's belly so marines can see it ready to blow. It could be quite fun if they left it in, but we won't know unless they try to add it.
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Underwater fighting and structures - This one is a toughy here. We all remember when we'd have custom maps with little underwater tunnles where a gorge could set up defensive structures to survive underwater and the marines has trouble from lack of air, or the fun shorter passageways where the offence chambers ambushed swimming marines going for an "Easy" resource node. It was fun, but it's far less needed than the other things, just making a small thing to think of. Water and fighting and oxygen supply would be nice though, and maybe some equipment or evolutions that circumvent it. Imagine if marines had to buy equipment to breath underwater while aliens could evolve "gills" adding to a nice extra competitive side to it. But all in all... that's just too complex. The biggest problem being is it's not a mod of a game with a water system, it's a custom engine. Would be nice to have water, but I won't complain if there isn't.
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<b>
Due note - the big reason for all these is merely cause it made things fun, even though imbalanced at times. Personally, a little imbalance adds a big bit of fun for both sides at times, but it's all trial and error anyways.</b>
Starting off - Recently in the podcast 17 interview, it was stated that the old way of having to hunt down every last player is removed, with the last console or hive being destroyed ending the game. This is both good and bad, as it improves gameplay and time until the next match, but removes one of the things that made NS1 so great - it's utter chaotic insanity and comical fun from having to take out that annoying last hideout.
I think we need it in NS2 - BUT - not overlooking the plan to take it out too. So this is what I suggest for it-
-
Allow a server based checkbox for "Search and destroy" mode, where every last player must die on the enemy side after their IP's or Hives are all destroyed. It shouldn't be very hard to code in and will allow people to play a little more by NS1 rules, because lets face it, hiding as the last marines or aliens and trying to prolong death has always been a ton of fun.
-
Next up, I haven't been able to find confirmation anywhere, but I've heard lots of rumors the Onos won't have devour. I believe that we need devour, not because of gameplay at all, if anything it'll make it harder to balance, but for fun, devour has ALWAYS been there for us.
-
Anyone who has played NS1 remembers the first time they saw an Onos, with marines screaming and someone getting eating and hearing them screaming for the others to kill it before it kills them. The chaos was absolutely histerical. Devour has always just been fun, and in a way is something that has always embodied NS1's alien insanity and chaotic gameplay. It's bizaar and unnecessary elements like this that attract so many of us into NS1. You tell you friend he can eat people and he jumps right in to playing it. It's not balanced, it's just fun, and we all enjoy it a lot.
-
-
Skulk Kamikazie - I KNOW this thing is probably being thought of intensely by the devs. We all both love and hate it, most hate it more - but it's an old NS1 ability and of course deserves to be looked at. The ability to blow yourself up and become a bio grenade, always a useful and annoying trick. Fun, but not as fun as devour and a bit easier to balance than devour but still a bit of trouble. Should it be kept in? Personally I think it will be left out and agree with that, since skulks are a little tougher and bigger now and the dev's will probably give them something better and more useful in exchange. But if it does get pulled over, it should be changed, maybe with the skulk glowing hot red like the gorge's belly so marines can see it ready to blow. It could be quite fun if they left it in, but we won't know unless they try to add it.
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-
Underwater fighting and structures - This one is a toughy here. We all remember when we'd have custom maps with little underwater tunnles where a gorge could set up defensive structures to survive underwater and the marines has trouble from lack of air, or the fun shorter passageways where the offence chambers ambushed swimming marines going for an "Easy" resource node. It was fun, but it's far less needed than the other things, just making a small thing to think of. Water and fighting and oxygen supply would be nice though, and maybe some equipment or evolutions that circumvent it. Imagine if marines had to buy equipment to breath underwater while aliens could evolve "gills" adding to a nice extra competitive side to it. But all in all... that's just too complex. The biggest problem being is it's not a mod of a game with a water system, it's a custom engine. Would be nice to have water, but I won't complain if there isn't.
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Comments
Well that's why I said it should be a check box, we can have S&D servers and normal servers. My point being it'd be easy to code in and a few of us had a TON of fun with it. Some like some don't, having options is a big bonus to us gamers.
Yeah the devour did take a bit, it was unbalanced as well, but it was still a bit useful and still very fun. I usually play marines about 70-80% of the time, and I want devour to stay in.... it just embodies NS to me.
I really love it and always used it, killed so many marines. This is the only thing I miss and want on NS2.
Devour is fun, but is not one of my favourites. And as it was stated that aliens will have new upgrades, so for me it is ok if devour is not there.
All can be added as mods, making new gameplay mods, and if at the end everyone is playing this mods and not vanilla servers, add it as part of the game.
I still remember when there was no xenozide and devour on NS1 :D
And both was great additions to the game. The thing is, lets see how the game goes now and in the beta we can see if it's needed ingame or as mod. It could be also a good way to keep NS1 alive. Anyway, some people are trying to port the old maps to NS2, and with some more people involved can become on a mod for NS2, adding the gameplay of NS1.
Now, what would make me completely ignore the loss of devour is some other impeding type ability - if the Onos could throw marines onto their backs or pick them up and hurl them with it's mouth. But I just don't wanna see it do nothing but bash and be just a glorified battering ram. It's just being out of the ordinary that made it a ton of fun.
It's already <b>been</b> looked into.
For many years.
In NS1.
...
Honestly, devour felt like it was specifically created to devour the fun out of being a marine.
If you give the onos a devour animation, then you're keeping it stuck in place for a few seconds - you're taking control away from the player, and that's never a good idea. Primarily because it's not fun. And now you've got two unhappy players.
It was and is fun, and me yelling to the other marines to shoot the onos and kill it, and they start shooting until I die and then they manage to kill the onos... I love it, but is not that important.
The usual saying was "mmmm smells funny in here. What you have eat lately?"
for all of you who will be missing all the fun of the original NS1, im sure someone will make an NS1 mod on spark.
for all of you who will be missing all the fun of the original NS1, im sure someone will make an NS1 mod on spark.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just for looking at how they would migrate if they were added more than saying they should. In the end it's all up to the devs anyways, but it's up to us, the players, payers, and gamers to tell them all the points we can so they have a better grasp of it all. If we just sit down and shut up... well, right now we'd be using taser's in the alpha now wouldn't we? Even if we talk fanatically on wanting a feature or hating it, if we tell why and what, the devs can at least see a little more into it. They may remove a feature that was in NS1 and instead give us a new better feature that fits better in NS2 and is more fun while having the same general concept. Such as removing devour and letting an Onos slam a player a good distance with a short stun or such. It's up to us to state the whys and why nots rather than just being biased for or against NS1 features. We state we like and why we do or what we don't like and why we don't. Can't just say "have at it your way" or "do it just like NS1", you won't get a perfect game that way. UWE is doing a very unique style of game developement, and in order for them to do it best, we NEED to speak our mind. It's practically our duty.
No to everything. Except one thing.
Kharaa can build and attack underwater, Marines cannot(except with the Axe, and Rifle Butt).
But were not getting water in NS2, so you do not need to worry about that for now(at least what is currently known).
Something like Marine vs Marine Call of Duty style remake.
Gets annoying when the entire team was using it and vanishing from my every shot.
I think that went coming up with abilities for NS2 Charlie should definitely consider some off the wall, crazy and above all fun abilities.
We've got belly slide so we're on our way! woop!
yet never balanced
I am pretty sure they will come up with some new crazy gameplay gimmicks that fit better long term.
hopefully they will also be gathering stats on new mechanics while we play.
Something like the Mass Effect mini games to break into locks, or decode security codes. This way you have something to do, you have to complete it fast which would add that panic feeling, and keeps devour in the game. But this is just a suggestion I don't really care about devour.
Something like the Mass Effect mini games to break into locks, or decode security codes. This way you have something to do, you have to complete it fast which would add that panic feeling, and keeps devour in the game. But this is just a suggestion I don't really care about devour.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah! I doubt they'd do that but that's a pretty wild and fun idea! Punching an Onos' insides.
Well I mean they do have switchax's for a reason, or in NS days, a knife. And since they can adapt to the aliens, which is the main premise for the marines this time, they could have made technology to counter the devour ability of Ono's such as the one I suggested or even a special grenade you can buy that you can't throw but only activates inside an Onos, like a self destruct grenade. Now the downside of this is, it takes a slot and you can't use it in any other way, the positive is well.. it's a actual counter and solution to devour.
yet never balanced<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Devour was balanced just fine, it was one of the few viable tactics against well organized Heavy Trains. Devour + Stomp were the reason evolve to onos in most games, with out devour the ns1 onos would be way less useful. Counter to devour+stomp onos is jp.
I can't think of any thing in the original ns, that I would label as truly Overpowered.
Dude, that's the devour equivalent of elevator music. Supposedly entertaining as you pass the (very boring) time, but no, it isn't.
I can't think of any thing in the original ns, that I would label as truly Overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This...
Devour will be missed but the removal of player control can be very annoying to some people. Devour and the onos in general was only really useful for removing a player for 30sec as well as stopping heavy trains.
The fade was a much more effective unit for everything except countering HA.
What? You want them to create assets they're not going to use?
If the modders want it in, then the modders can do that themselves.