Game feel
frijec
Join Date: 2003-08-18 Member: 19922Members
Join Date: 2003-08-18 Member: 19922Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How will this game feel for the players?</div>I really don't know any other way to express my concerns other than making a post here on the forum. These concerns have been in me for a while, but I thought I would keep them to myself until the alpha test is out. But after seeing the pre-alpha gameplay video, I just can't withhold it anymore.
One of the major plus sides of the original NS1, was the core around the HL1 engine. The whole feeling of the game, as in movement, mouse handling, etc made the mod what it is today. There is very few game developers (in my opinion) that spend much time polishing the game feel, to hit that exact blend that make the player feel completely in control of their character. To name a few, I would say Quake3, Call of duty series, Half-life 1, Source engine.
Since I love NS and everything about it, I hoped that flayra would spend a lot of time, to get the feeling right. So when I first downloaded the engine test, I was really sad to experience how the movement and mouse felt. I know it was a test, but the latest video only confirmed my concern, as you could see how clumsy the mouse movement was when they shot at the aliens.
I don't think there is much to do, other than hope for the best tonight and pray that flayra will work on it later in the proces, if it is wrong.
One of the major plus sides of the original NS1, was the core around the HL1 engine. The whole feeling of the game, as in movement, mouse handling, etc made the mod what it is today. There is very few game developers (in my opinion) that spend much time polishing the game feel, to hit that exact blend that make the player feel completely in control of their character. To name a few, I would say Quake3, Call of duty series, Half-life 1, Source engine.
Since I love NS and everything about it, I hoped that flayra would spend a lot of time, to get the feeling right. So when I first downloaded the engine test, I was really sad to experience how the movement and mouse felt. I know it was a test, but the latest video only confirmed my concern, as you could see how clumsy the mouse movement was when they shot at the aliens.
I don't think there is much to do, other than hope for the best tonight and pray that flayra will work on it later in the proces, if it is wrong.
Comments
Serious answer, similar to the first game but with it's on unique nuances do to engine change, i'd expect.
i mean, the old lowlevel written games quake 1-2-3 hell yeah, thats what DirectInput should be :P
if you run an actual shooter and than something old, you will notice the "slight" delay everything has in modern games.
and than, make it newbfriendly *PUKE*:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s</a> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<a href="http://kotaku.com/5531665/if-super-mario-bros-was-made-in-2010" target="_blank">http://kotaku.com/5531665/if-super-mario-b...as-made-in-2010</a>
(ns1 was easy to learn hard to Master ns2 will probably maybe under some cruel and evil circumstances, be easy to learn easy to Master)
i mean, the old lowlevel written games quake 1-2-3 hell yeah, thats what DirectInput should be :P
if you run an actual shooter and than something old, you will notice the "slight" delay everything has in modern games.
and than, make it newbfriendly *PUKE*:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s</a> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<a href="http://kotaku.com/5531665/if-super-mario-bros-was-made-in-2010" target="_blank">http://kotaku.com/5531665/if-super-mario-b...as-made-in-2010</a>
(ns1 was easy to learn hard to Master ns2 will probably maybe under some cruel and evil circumstances, be easy to learn easy to Master)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt it will be easy to master.
Also i heard Flayra is like a major NS competitive ######, which i think would give the idea of making it hard to master.
i mean, the old lowlevel written games quake 1-2-3 hell yeah, thats what DirectInput should be :P
if you run an actual shooter and than something old, you will notice the "slight" delay everything has in modern games.
and than, make it newbfriendly *PUKE*:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s</a> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<a href="http://kotaku.com/5531665/if-super-mario-bros-was-made-in-2010" target="_blank">http://kotaku.com/5531665/if-super-mario-b...as-made-in-2010</a>
(ns1 was easy to learn hard to Master ns2 will probably maybe under some cruel and evil circumstances, be easy to learn easy to Master)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only thing making source engine annoying to some extend is the havok physics imo. The overall movement etc is fine.
I'm not talking about making the game easy to master, or making it noob friendly.
You did understand my love for the old games, as their "Directinput" is phenomenal and the feel is just how it should be. When I fire up the engine test, I have a solid mouse lag and the movement feels like the model have elephant on the shoulders.
That said, I'd be curious to hear more about what you think should be changed about the mouse movement though. Do you think the mouse movement should be accelerated? Maybe a lack of acceleration makes it feel sluggish since we are accustomed to mouse acceleration on our desktops; this would be an interesting thing to test.
That said, I'd be curious to hear more about what you think should be changed about the mouse movement though. Do you think the mouse movement should be accelerated? Maybe a lack of acceleration makes it feel sluggish since we are accustomed to mouse acceleration on our desktops; this would be an interesting thing to test.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Max, I really appreciate you taking your time to answer this post, even when you have the alpha coming out in a few hours.
I have been part of the european eSport scene within a few games now, unreal tournament series and call of duty series. As I have been to a lot of lans across europe, I know that it is very different of how the players have their game setup.
Myself, I never use any mouse acceleration. But I think can relate to what I talk about in the old games, that their mouse movement feel just right. There isn't any "delay" feel or filtering to annoy the players.
I think you need to get the base feeling just right, and make all the acceleration, filtering etc optional for the players.
That said, I'd be curious to hear more about what you think should be changed about the mouse movement though. Do you think the mouse movement should be accelerated? Maybe a lack of acceleration makes it feel sluggish since we are accustomed to mouse acceleration on our desktops; this would be an interesting thing to test.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think the major quarrel here is that they noticed some mouse lag with the engine test (i did too, actually) not about the sensitivity of the mouse.
I think Quake 3 engine is still at least one step ahead. It has got pretty cool options and it also feels ridiculously sharp and accurate. It's at least easier to configure to exact feel than HL1 engine is.
God no! I hate mouse acceleration in FPS games. I think I'll need to wait till I try the alpha a little before I comment on any changes needed.
Do not try to reinvent mouse acc if you want to give players the same feeling they got at their default Windows desktop, simple use whatever settings Windows is currently using, but please also add some in-game options.
Personally I use the Windows mouse acc except for when I'm playing a FPS so I have manually turn if on and off using the control panel (I have yet to figure out a better way, it's sort of annoying) but if you could add an option to override this setting while in-game that would make things a whole lot easier. Even better if you could have separate settings for the FPS mode and "2D" mode such as in menus and when commanding.
The default setting I would like and I hope most others would be having mouse acc off in FPS mode and on when there's a cursor on screen (playing commander) or always off if mouse acc is turned off in the control panel.
no accel pls, i dont use accel on my desktop to, have the winxp mousefix for win7, 1000hz driver etc.
(yeah, hell, that's what 11 years of counterstrike does to your senses :/ i'm feeling like the princess and the pea)
and as far as i remember, the mouse code in the goldsource is the same as in q1, isn't it?
but cut that off ^^ and switch to the important thing: gameplay :P i hope you all already knew: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s</a> , if not - view it and think again!
the whole game could be different, from the movement to the classes, because its not a remake, its a whole new game, based on the other.
i have no problem with learning new techniques, but they should be in. its no problem if there is no strafejump in anymore,
but there should be something else, which i can use to own and separate myself from the others by skill, hard training and talent.
and that is not only an important thing (which will be maybe delayed backwards) its the whole thing all is about :O
what makes cs1.6 so different to other games, that makes it so immortal.
for me-just for me: its dammed accurate! on a 1000hz server, with low and stable ping, if i hit first, i hit first, the other fall and i don't loose 1hp.
it can be called fair and the luck factor is very low. because of that it is very well noticed! ofc, when everything is absolute silent, you can hear the grass grow :P
i'm daily more and more STUNNED by the artistic level of what you are bringing to us, but that is not a reason for me to play a game for the next 10 years.
(at this point: i'm very interested on what the cube2 team brings in 2011!) if you bring new challenges up, hell yeah! that is what i'm talking about :D
just simply give us the tools (netcode, stable fps, accurate inputhandling, highfps servers(thats the only way for using reaction time as skill! everything else would be theoretical and would break the flow)) for feeling amused on a fair basis. when we have to say: well i sucked, thats the only reason i lost. i HAD THE CHANCE but i screwed it up. NEXT TIME BETTER, come on i can do this!!
But if you are helpless and there is no light on the other end of the tunnel, you will quit faster as you began playing that game. (for me it is always something special and magic, seeing ppl, going absolute crazy as fade, or pro lerks eating the whole team and moving like a rollercoaster through the map and vents and i still want to be as good as them. getting owned like this is always a stimulation :P - because i know its skill, i could do this too (and i always do after playing only ns for 2-3 days :D))
hope i made my point more precise now :)
ps.: sorry for my bad english - hope you can understand what i mean :(
Yes in alot of cases the fade is GODLY!!!
(but only when the player is equally godly enough to pull it off.)
I think the game feel was perfect.
Being a Focus Carapace Celerity fade.... Perfect feel to that, really hard to master.... doing hit and run moves on a troop of marines with lvl2 weap and armour all with shotguns and your the last fade deffending a hive with these upgrades (or just celerity and forus.)
Makes you feel like your about to have a heart attack... its that awesome! Its like if you die in game you might just die in real life... you feel so connected to the game.
Or when you see the first onos of a game and our just scouting out RTs as a marine with mt and a lmg...
You see a blip and you asess its speed and where it is and what its doing...
Must be a gorge.....
ARRRR ONOS!!!!! *Eaten*.... or in NS2s case *dead*
.... thats a good feel for a game....
Anyway just my imput...
Plaese no mouse acceleration... :(
That said, I'd be curious to hear more about what you think should be changed about the mouse movement though. Do you think the mouse movement should be accelerated? Maybe a lack of acceleration makes it feel sluggish since we are accustomed to mouse acceleration on our desktops; this would be an interesting thing to test.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would say , just copy CPMA for Quake 3 feel wise and you are on to a winner !
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRMn1tj5-Nc&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRMn1tj5-Nc...feature=related</a>
If you watch that video , you can see how responsive the engine is to the user input. I think that's what hes trying to say, if you can nail that feel then you have a very very solid positive feel to a game. Most newer games/engines these days do not nail that feel because they are probably more complex ? I think that's what he means.
Do not put on mouse acceleration on as its bad :P
But i think i could argue that Quake 3 / CPMA generally had _The best_ feel to any game for responsiveness. But yeh the op is right, if you don't get the feel right and it feels sluggish and not responsive the game automatically becomes horrible to play, even if the game is good it has to _feel_ good. I have just bought ns2 yesterday though , and having run round inside a map, i do like the air control, that is exactly like cpma but not strafe jumping yet to build up speed :P (this would be imba for marine) lol.
That guy doesn't do anything for free though :P
Mhh but if your going to do it.. do it right and who better to get then the best esports player in history of fps games. Plus im sure he would be a great help for general game play and small stuff. U never know he just might do it.
EDIT: found it! "I've got NS1 running on one computer and NS2 on another. Trying to recreate the marine/skulk movement exactly. It's surprisingly hard."
I don't mean to be too critical these r the things I hope can be improved :)))
That said, I'd be curious to hear more about what you think should be changed about the mouse movement though. Do you think the mouse movement should be accelerated? Maybe a lack of acceleration makes it feel sluggish since we are accustomed to mouse acceleration on our desktops; this would be an interesting thing to test.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A small firing range LUA script would be nice. A simple map with targets (like a duck hunt minigame or something), and as you shoot at them, you can increase/decrease your mouse sensitivity/acceleration as you see fit. I've been wishing for games to implement something along these lines for years. Real time mouse adjustment for maximum comfort and accuracy. Hell, add a feedback option where it uploads what people are feeling comfortable on, and see what the average is. Do it for movement, jumping, etc too, and you can have the community define the optimal feel of the game for you.