<!--quoteo(post=1781534:date=Jul 21 2010, 11:43 PM:name=Slycaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slycaster @ Jul 21 2010, 11:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781534"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No they haven't. You can easily disable unlocked items at any time if you want to be competitive. This is the most worthless argument towards TF2 going the "wrong direction"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a reason the European TF2 league have banned the majority of unlocks. I think we've let the medic ones and soldier ones slide; still usable with restrictions however. I think the spy gun may be allowed and that's about it. Although a lot have been banned because it harms competitive TF2 play and ruins the flow.
I doubt we have many competitive TF2 players here who could actually argue the point.
"thank you for make me a bread, thank you!" what would be so wrong with that. i know the world is a unkind place mostly but... should we put all people who actually show emotions and feelings in everyday life on a spaceship.
<!--quoteo(post=1781800:date=Jul 22 2010, 12:57 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jul 22 2010, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781800"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a reason the European TF2 league have banned the majority of unlocks. I think we've let the medic ones and soldier ones slide; still usable with restrictions however. I think the spy gun may be allowed and that's about it. Although a lot have been banned because it harms competitive TF2 play and ruins the flow.
I doubt we have many competitive TF2 players here who could actually argue the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still don't understand why all the criticism. Competitive players don't usually play on public servers, they prefer the closed ones for reserved people (you know, the competitive ones). If I'm correct, TF2 Server allows you to disable all unlocks and just enable the vanilla TF2.
The rule is simple: You want a competitive play? Find competitive players and run a competitive server. You want a FUN play? Find any public server with people that play occasionaly and don't care for balancing/competitive/unlocks/etc.
I still don't understand why people hammer Valve for the new features, if they still let you play the old vanilla version of NS2.
I'm sorry, but that seems to be some kind of <b>egoist</b> argument, it's something like that competitive players say: "Competitive playing is the only one that matters. If we don't like the new features of the game, <b>nobody should like them and no server should have them</b>, even if we can make our own competitive server for competitive and reserved players."
I mean, the "play for fun" community is <b>way bigger</b> than the "play for competition" community. So... :)
1. the tools are for the game, to make it more playable, like ns1 had. 2. they just do it for the money, NS1 was released to test and create a community. You know ns2 was planed for source engine and they say to us " we use the money from "Zen of Sudoku" so people buy it and whats happend at the end? They say "ah no, we don't do it" its like "we want more money, so pay again and now we use our own engine" 3. why they won't do ns2? they did it...they have now a community because of free ns1. 4. lool...fanboy can you think real? they can't just go to some big publisher and if they do it, they don't get that big money they get now...you realy have to think about it again. i mean its NOTHING BAD create a game just for money, i mean we must have money for life but i can't understand these blind fanboy/kiddies who love companys for make money...
Valve for example isn't a Community loving company...they only think for the money, not for our people. If some people write stupid ###### like " oh yeah valve is so nice, they give us free updates, free games, i love them so much, i want have kids with them"...realy, wake up.
for example, the updates for TF2 are just for make money, because everytime after they release a content update, more people purchase the game. Be realistic! UWE isn't diffrent. You/we pay for the alpha/beta, last one is mostly free and released from big companys.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. And seeing as NS1 generated so much income for them that really worked out for them... and afaik NS1 didn't have tools like these.
2. Yeah i totaly see it all coming together now... charlie wasting 1 year of his life so that he could build an financial empire 8 years later, i'm sure he planed all this allready 15 years ago. He must be like the best super villan ever! He plans decades ahead!
3. NS is still a niche product with hardly any mass appeal, anybody who only targets for big market penetration is gonna pick a popular genre with mass appeal. Like a somewhat generic FPS (an NS without the RTS elements would allready have more mass appeal) or a TPS. The remaining community from the mod is passionate but not really huge, that's hardly a group you target if you are in for the big buck. Take a look at the new "X com" game if you wanna see what i'm talking about, they try to grab the original fanbase with the franchise while the game itself mostly caters to mass market because it hardly has anything to do with what Xcom originaly had been about.
4. Yes you really make your point clear by insulting me, that makes you look so much more "mature" compared to me poor "fanboy kiddie". If you honestly believe they are making the big money right now you must be more delusional than i thought. You have no clue at all what kind of costs are involved to build and run an setup like UWE has right now.
And yes it is easier to get just hired by a big publishers especially if you have a trackrecord like charlie and NS to point to. They will supply the money you need but in turn they gonna dictate design decission in such a direction to reach the highest market penetration.
Of course TF2 updates generate more TF2 sales, but there are allways serveral ways to approach an situation. One for maximum profit and one for not so much profit but happy gamers. Just compare how activision handles moding and extra content compared to valve. They shutdown moding so people are forced to buy the DLC, valve could do the same and people would buy the stuff generating even more profit than any free update does, the point is: They don't
Valve could release annual HL sequels with paid DLC and people would buy that stuff just like activision does with CoD, it would net them insane profits far more than what they do now. the point is: They don't
If you can't see the difference between how valve/UWE are acting and how activision is acting and just claim "they are all the same" than i seriously can't help you because i can explain alot but if people are unable to think than all explanation is lost on them.
And yes i paid for alpha, so what? To me it's basicly just a payment torwards nearly a decade of fun i had with the original NS mod, nothing more. I even would have paid that without getting into alpha because i think good work needs to be rewarded which has hardly anything to do with "greed".
But i guess you are one of these people who hate their jobs and can't understand that some people enjoy what they are doing for a living and don't just do it for the sake of getting money, maybe you should just quit your job at burger king and look for a job you enjoy more....
TF2 was never a good game and never will be. It is as casual as a game can possibly get. I remember when I first played it, whatever I had against it. It looked great. Could play a game like that and it would never look 'old' so to speak. Really great design I thought. But now, that is gone. The design is instead replaced by... hats.. Ah, yes. Hats. Genius. What is good design when you can make lots of money? Gameplay, balance, all irrelevant. Forget everything, add achievements and hats. Everyone will love it!
to all those people arguing about whether or not UWE is in this for the money... who gives a sh*t what their intentions are? if you like the product then purchase it... if you don't like it go give your money to some other game company.
I personally would have paid $40 for NS1 ported to the source engine. why? BECAUSE THE GAME IS GOOD!
If you need to justify spending $40 on a video game then you either need a job or need to get your financial priorities straight.
Thank you UWE for NS1, you will get my thanks for NS2 when it is released.
<!--quoteo(post=1781811:date=Jul 22 2010, 01:38 PM:name=Anom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anom @ Jul 22 2010, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah, yes. Hats. Genius. What is good design when you can make lots of money? <b>Gameplay, balance</b>, all irrelevant. Forget everything, add achievements and hats. Everyone will love it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you trying to say that Valve doesn't update TF2 to balance and improve the gameplay? OMG, man... How many months have you been away from TF2? They're always releasing patche to fix bugs and improve the gameplay, including balance. Also, they're releasing <b>not only cosmetic and useless stuff (like hats), but new features and weapons</b>.
I can't believe how people don't like to see the reality. It's just like: "I don't like TF2 and nothing in the world is going to make me like it, even if Valve does what is correct and improve the game."
<!--quoteo(post=1781800:date=Jul 22 2010, 03:57 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jul 22 2010, 03:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781800"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a reason the European TF2 league have banned the majority of unlocks. I think we've let the medic ones and soldier ones slide; still usable with restrictions however. I think the spy gun may be allowed and that's about it. Although a lot have been banned because it harms competitive TF2 play and ruins the flow.
I doubt we have many competitive TF2 players here who could actually argue the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm a competitive player who likes new unlocks because there's a chance that other classes might be useful. Euros are too stuck up in vanilla + medic unlocks that they never tried to play the game with other things in it. I remember when they allowed 2 demomans instead of 1. Some unlocks do destroy the flow of the game (sandman, natasha, wrangler) but others actually make some classes slightly more useful and the euros can't stand that. They want a stagnant game, that although sounds great for competitive, isn't in such a low skill-ceiling game. I honestly don't know why they're scared of sandwiches and charge and targe, but maybe it's because solid snake raped them hard in an exhibition match with the targe.
<!--quoteo(post=1781807:date=Jul 22 2010, 04:26 PM:name=davidcavalcante)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (davidcavalcante @ Jul 22 2010, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still don't understand why all the criticism. Competitive players don't usually play on public servers, they prefer the closed ones for reserved people (you know, the competitive ones). If I'm correct, TF2 Server allows you to disable all unlocks and just enable the vanilla TF2.
The rule is simple: You want a competitive play? Find competitive players and run a competitive server. You want a FUN play? Find any public server with people that play occasionaly and don't care for balancing/competitive/unlocks/etc.
I still don't understand why people hammer Valve for the new features, if they still let you play the old vanilla version of NS2.
I'm sorry, but that seems to be some kind of <b>egoist</b> argument, it's something like that competitive players say: "Competitive playing is the only one that matters. If we don't like the new features of the game, <b>nobody should like them and no server should have them</b>, even if we can make our own competitive server for competitive and reserved players."
I mean, the "play for fun" community is <b>way bigger</b> than the "play for competition" community. So... :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Competitive players play on public servers all the time. It's just that they also have a passion of playing against people of higher skill level and organization, as griefing pubs without trying to gets boring.
Also, people are only hammer for new features because A)they get rid of/replace features (mat_picmip -10, no-gate granary/well, quickscope), B)they promise it in updates, so why not try to help shape those new features? Also, competitive players could give a rat's ass if pubbers used items or not in pubs, but they'd like to see items balanced often when they aren't suitable for competitive and there is no balance in pubbing. I don't see how tweaks for the competitive community will ruin pubbing at all, and I don't see how one man's fun in competitive and pub is different from one person's fun only in pub. I think you're acting as if competitive players have no fun in this game and purely play serious hardcore mode, but have you ever thought that they might *gasp* like it more than pubbing? How many professional sports players hate the sport they're playing? Why would someone waste their time playing a game they hate/don't have fun in and get little out of it? I'm just saying, are you part of the mob that only cares about hats and hatgate/halos and drunkenf00l's VAC ban because he found leaked times and the achievement unlocker weapons being revoked for a week etc etc etc. Appeasing the mob seems to be terrible easy in TF2, increase drop rate make more hats. People who actually care about playing the game should get priority, not the majority who don't care.
<!--quoteo(post=1781881:date=Jul 22 2010, 09:15 PM:name=davidcavalcante)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (davidcavalcante @ Jul 22 2010, 09:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you trying to say that Valve doesn't update TF2 to balance and improve the gameplay? OMG, man... How many months have you been away from TF2? They're always releasing patche to fix bugs and improve the gameplay, including balance. Also, they're releasing <b>not only cosmetic and useless stuff (like hats), but new features and weapons</b>.
I can't believe how people don't like to see the reality. It's just like: "I don't like TF2 and nothing in the world is going to make me like it, even if Valve does what is correct and improve the game."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But also new features and weapons? You don't say.
<!--quoteo(post=1781619:date=Jul 22 2010, 05:24 AM:name=Cheezy104)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cheezy104 @ Jul 22 2010, 05:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781619"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fact that a game is popular does not mean it doesn't have a lot of "trash".
Even if Starcraft 2 turned out to be a massive fail, people would still buy it. Because it's Blizzard, and it's Starcraft.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> same for ns2
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1782084:date=Jul 23 2010, 11:54 AM:name=kflow47)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kflow47 @ Jul 23 2010, 11:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782084"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do you guys need to talk in every second Thread about TF2 or Valve?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because the "vast knowledge" on those subjects and showing off that "knowledge" make teh epenis grow :P
Comments
There's a reason the European TF2 league have banned the majority of unlocks. I think we've let the medic ones and soldier ones slide; still usable with restrictions however. I think the spy gun may be allowed and that's about it. Although a lot have been banned because it harms competitive TF2 play and ruins the flow.
I doubt we have many competitive TF2 players here who could actually argue the point.
what would be so wrong with that.
i know the world is a unkind place mostly but...
should we put all people who actually show emotions and feelings in everyday life on a spaceship.
I doubt we have many competitive TF2 players here who could actually argue the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still don't understand why all the criticism.
Competitive players don't usually play on public servers, they prefer the closed ones for reserved people (you know, the competitive ones). If I'm correct, TF2 Server allows you to disable all unlocks and just enable the vanilla TF2.
The rule is simple:
You want a competitive play? Find competitive players and run a competitive server.
You want a FUN play? Find any public server with people that play occasionaly and don't care for balancing/competitive/unlocks/etc.
I still don't understand why people hammer Valve for the new features, if they still let you play the old vanilla version of NS2.
I'm sorry, but that seems to be some kind of <b>egoist</b> argument, it's something like that competitive players say: "Competitive playing is the only one that matters. If we don't like the new features of the game, <b>nobody should like them and no server should have them</b>, even if we can make our own competitive server for competitive and reserved players."
I mean, the "play for fun" community is <b>way bigger</b> than the "play for competition" community. So... :)
1. the tools are for the game, to make it more playable, like ns1 had.
2. they just do it for the money, NS1 was released to test and create a community.
You know ns2 was planed for source engine and they say to us " we use the money from "Zen of Sudoku" so people buy it and whats happend at the end?
They say "ah no, we don't do it" its like "we want more money, so pay again and now we use our own engine"
3. why they won't do ns2? they did it...they have now a community because of free ns1.
4. lool...fanboy can you think real? they can't just go to some big publisher and if they do it, they don't get that big money they get now...you realy have to think about it again.
i mean its NOTHING BAD create a game just for money, i mean we must have money for life but i can't understand these blind fanboy/kiddies who love companys for make money...
Valve for example isn't a Community loving company...they only think for the money, not for our people.
If some people write stupid ###### like " oh yeah valve is so nice, they give us free updates, free games, i love them so much, i want have kids with them"...realy, wake up.
for example, the updates for TF2 are just for make money, because everytime after they release a content update, more people purchase the game.
Be realistic!
UWE isn't diffrent.
You/we pay for the alpha/beta, last one is mostly free and released from big companys.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. And seeing as NS1 generated so much income for them that really worked out for them... and afaik NS1 didn't have tools like these.
2. Yeah i totaly see it all coming together now... charlie wasting 1 year of his life so that he could build an financial empire 8 years later, i'm sure he planed all this allready 15 years ago. He must be like the best super villan ever! He plans decades ahead!
3. NS is still a niche product with hardly any mass appeal, anybody who only targets for big market penetration is gonna pick a popular genre with mass appeal. Like a somewhat generic FPS (an NS without the RTS elements would allready have more mass appeal) or a TPS. The remaining community from the mod is passionate but not really huge, that's hardly a group you target if you are in for the big buck. Take a look at the new "X com" game if you wanna see what i'm talking about, they try to grab the original fanbase with the franchise while the game itself mostly caters to mass market because it hardly has anything to do with what Xcom originaly had been about.
4. Yes you really make your point clear by insulting me, that makes you look so much more "mature" compared to me poor "fanboy kiddie". If you honestly believe they are making the big money right now you must be more delusional than i thought. You have no clue at all what kind of costs are involved to build and run an setup like UWE has right now.
And yes it is easier to get just hired by a big publishers especially if you have a trackrecord like charlie and NS to point to. They will supply the money you need but in turn they gonna dictate design decission in such a direction to reach the highest market penetration.
Of course TF2 updates generate more TF2 sales, but there are allways serveral ways to approach an situation. One for maximum profit and one for not so much profit but happy gamers. Just compare how activision handles moding and extra content compared to valve. They shutdown moding so people are forced to buy the DLC, valve could do the same and people would buy the stuff generating even more profit than any free update does, the point is: They don't
Valve could release annual HL sequels with paid DLC and people would buy that stuff just like activision does with CoD, it would net them insane profits far more than what they do now. the point is: They don't
If you can't see the difference between how valve/UWE are acting and how activision is acting and just claim "they are all the same" than i seriously can't help you because i can explain alot but if people are unable to think than all explanation is lost on them.
And yes i paid for alpha, so what? To me it's basicly just a payment torwards nearly a decade of fun i had with the original NS mod, nothing more. I even would have paid that without getting into alpha because i think good work needs to be rewarded which has hardly anything to do with "greed".
But i guess you are one of these people who hate their jobs and can't understand that some people enjoy what they are doing for a living and don't just do it for the sake of getting money, maybe you should just quit your job at burger king and look for a job you enjoy more....
Could play a game like that and it would never look 'old' so to speak. Really great design I thought. But now, that is gone. The design is instead replaced by... hats..
Ah, yes. Hats. Genius. What is good design when you can make lots of money? Gameplay, balance, all irrelevant. Forget everything, add achievements and hats. Everyone will love it!
I personally would have paid $40 for NS1 ported to the source engine. why? BECAUSE THE GAME IS GOOD!
If you need to justify spending $40 on a video game then you either need a job or need to get your financial priorities straight.
Thank you UWE for NS1, you will get my thanks for NS2 when it is released.
Are you trying to say that Valve doesn't update TF2 to balance and improve the gameplay?
OMG, man... How many months have you been away from TF2?
They're always releasing patche to fix bugs and improve the gameplay, including balance.
Also, they're releasing <b>not only cosmetic and useless stuff (like hats), but new features and weapons</b>.
I can't believe how people don't like to see the reality.
It's just like: "I don't like TF2 and nothing in the world is going to make me like it, even if Valve does what is correct and improve the game."
I doubt we have many competitive TF2 players here who could actually argue the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm a competitive player who likes new unlocks because there's a chance that other classes might be useful. Euros are too stuck up in vanilla + medic unlocks that they never tried to play the game with other things in it. I remember when they allowed 2 demomans instead of 1. Some unlocks do destroy the flow of the game (sandman, natasha, wrangler) but others actually make some classes slightly more useful and the euros can't stand that. They want a stagnant game, that although sounds great for competitive, isn't in such a low skill-ceiling game. I honestly don't know why they're scared of sandwiches and charge and targe, but maybe it's because solid snake raped them hard in an exhibition match with the targe.
<!--quoteo(post=1781807:date=Jul 22 2010, 04:26 PM:name=davidcavalcante)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (davidcavalcante @ Jul 22 2010, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still don't understand why all the criticism.
Competitive players don't usually play on public servers, they prefer the closed ones for reserved people (you know, the competitive ones). If I'm correct, TF2 Server allows you to disable all unlocks and just enable the vanilla TF2.
The rule is simple:
You want a competitive play? Find competitive players and run a competitive server.
You want a FUN play? Find any public server with people that play occasionaly and don't care for balancing/competitive/unlocks/etc.
I still don't understand why people hammer Valve for the new features, if they still let you play the old vanilla version of NS2.
I'm sorry, but that seems to be some kind of <b>egoist</b> argument, it's something like that competitive players say: "Competitive playing is the only one that matters. If we don't like the new features of the game, <b>nobody should like them and no server should have them</b>, even if we can make our own competitive server for competitive and reserved players."
I mean, the "play for fun" community is <b>way bigger</b> than the "play for competition" community. So... :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Competitive players play on public servers all the time. It's just that they also have a passion of playing against people of higher skill level and organization, as griefing pubs without trying to gets boring.
Also, people are only hammer for new features because A)they get rid of/replace features (mat_picmip -10, no-gate granary/well, quickscope), B)they promise it in updates, so why not try to help shape those new features? Also, competitive players could give a rat's ass if pubbers used items or not in pubs, but they'd like to see items balanced often when they aren't suitable for competitive and there is no balance in pubbing. I don't see how tweaks for the competitive community will ruin pubbing at all, and I don't see how one man's fun in competitive and pub is different from one person's fun only in pub. I think you're acting as if competitive players have no fun in this game and purely play serious hardcore mode, but have you ever thought that they might *gasp* like it more than pubbing? How many professional sports players hate the sport they're playing? Why would someone waste their time playing a game they hate/don't have fun in and get little out of it? I'm just saying, are you part of the mob that only cares about hats and hatgate/halos and drunkenf00l's VAC ban because he found leaked times and the achievement unlocker weapons being revoked for a week etc etc etc. Appeasing the mob seems to be terrible easy in TF2, increase drop rate make more hats. People who actually care about playing the game should get priority, not the majority who don't care.
OMG, man... How many months have you been away from TF2?
They're always releasing patche to fix bugs and improve the gameplay, including balance.
Also, they're releasing <b>not only cosmetic and useless stuff (like hats), but new features and weapons</b>.
I can't believe how people don't like to see the reality.
It's just like: "I don't like TF2 and nothing in the world is going to make me like it, even if Valve does what is correct and improve the game."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But also new features and weapons? You don't say.
Even if Starcraft 2 turned out to be a massive fail, people would still buy it. Because it's Blizzard, and it's Starcraft.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
same for ns2
Because the "vast knowledge" on those subjects and showing off that "knowledge" make teh epenis grow :P