Why I'm not pre-ordering NS2
TechRogue
Join Date: 2010-07-21 Member: 72634Members
Join Date: 2010-07-21 Member: 72634Members
(EDIT: Resolved...schkorpio has introduced me to the wonder of OEM licenses, so I'll be pre-ordering the SE after all.)
I want to preface this by saying that I've recently become a huge Indie-games nut. In the past year I've bought more games than the rest of my life put together, and almost all of them have been by indie studios. I pre-ordered Overgrowth and Amnesia: The dark descent, and spent a large chunk of money during the Humble Indie Bundle. I'm buying Osmos later today, and I'm planning on getting a Heroes of Newerth account soon. I think indie studios are awesome, and I'm happy to show my support by buying their products.
I first heard about NS2 from the bundle that Wolfire and Unknown worlds did a while back. Unfortunately I missed out on the special, but I've kept my eye on the blog ever since.
Until today I was ready to pre-order the special edition (it was the black armor that got me), and I had allocated $40 of my gaming budget to do so. But after a little looking around the site, I've halted my plans indefinitely.
See, I use Linux. Only Linux. As in, I don't have a valid license to run any version of MS Windows. Every Indie game I've bought has run on my Linux box with no problems whatsoever. For some reason, probably related to the fact that I heard about UW from Wolfire games, I assumed that NS2 would ship simultaneously on Windows, Linux and Mac OSX. But after I stumbled across <a href="http://www.naturalselection2.com/faq/game-questions/what-platforms-will-it-be-released-on.html" target="_blank">this</a> page I realized that I was wrong. I quote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We will initially release NS2 on Windows (through our web-site and through Steam). After that we plan to bring it to the Mac and the Xbox 360. Maybe even Linux.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, I'm not a fanboi, but it was this sentence, or more specifically the tone of the sentence, that broke the deal for me. As a longtime Linux gamer, to me the phrase "We might support Linux" means "Dream on, sucker." The main thing that I came to love the Indie-Game studio idea is the almost across-the-board attitude that Linux is as viable a platform as any. Many studios have posted glowingly about how well their game was received by the Linux community. Examples:
<a href="http://2dboy.com/2009/10/26/pay-what-you-want-birthday-sale-wrap-up/" target="_blank">2D boy</a>
<a href="http://www.hemispheregames.com/2010/06/23/linux-the-numbers/" target="_blank">Hemisphere games</a>
<a href="http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Linux-users-contribute-twice-as-much-as-Windows-users" target="_blank">Humble Indie Bundle</a>
<a href="http://blog.wolfire.com/2008/12/why-you-should-support-mac-os-x-and-linux/" target="_blank">Wolfire games blog</a>
My point is this: Numerous threads on here have begged for a Linux/Mac build. It's not like the demand isn't there. It's obvious that UW has a loyal fan base, many of whom use Linux but are tied to Windows for just that *one* game. When/if (I pray it's "when") UW releases a native Linux client for NS2 I will be first in line to buy it, day one.
I want to preface this by saying that I've recently become a huge Indie-games nut. In the past year I've bought more games than the rest of my life put together, and almost all of them have been by indie studios. I pre-ordered Overgrowth and Amnesia: The dark descent, and spent a large chunk of money during the Humble Indie Bundle. I'm buying Osmos later today, and I'm planning on getting a Heroes of Newerth account soon. I think indie studios are awesome, and I'm happy to show my support by buying their products.
I first heard about NS2 from the bundle that Wolfire and Unknown worlds did a while back. Unfortunately I missed out on the special, but I've kept my eye on the blog ever since.
Until today I was ready to pre-order the special edition (it was the black armor that got me), and I had allocated $40 of my gaming budget to do so. But after a little looking around the site, I've halted my plans indefinitely.
See, I use Linux. Only Linux. As in, I don't have a valid license to run any version of MS Windows. Every Indie game I've bought has run on my Linux box with no problems whatsoever. For some reason, probably related to the fact that I heard about UW from Wolfire games, I assumed that NS2 would ship simultaneously on Windows, Linux and Mac OSX. But after I stumbled across <a href="http://www.naturalselection2.com/faq/game-questions/what-platforms-will-it-be-released-on.html" target="_blank">this</a> page I realized that I was wrong. I quote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We will initially release NS2 on Windows (through our web-site and through Steam). After that we plan to bring it to the Mac and the Xbox 360. Maybe even Linux.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, I'm not a fanboi, but it was this sentence, or more specifically the tone of the sentence, that broke the deal for me. As a longtime Linux gamer, to me the phrase "We might support Linux" means "Dream on, sucker." The main thing that I came to love the Indie-Game studio idea is the almost across-the-board attitude that Linux is as viable a platform as any. Many studios have posted glowingly about how well their game was received by the Linux community. Examples:
<a href="http://2dboy.com/2009/10/26/pay-what-you-want-birthday-sale-wrap-up/" target="_blank">2D boy</a>
<a href="http://www.hemispheregames.com/2010/06/23/linux-the-numbers/" target="_blank">Hemisphere games</a>
<a href="http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Linux-users-contribute-twice-as-much-as-Windows-users" target="_blank">Humble Indie Bundle</a>
<a href="http://blog.wolfire.com/2008/12/why-you-should-support-mac-os-x-and-linux/" target="_blank">Wolfire games blog</a>
My point is this: Numerous threads on here have begged for a Linux/Mac build. It's not like the demand isn't there. It's obvious that UW has a loyal fan base, many of whom use Linux but are tied to Windows for just that *one* game. When/if (I pray it's "when") UW releases a native Linux client for NS2 I will be first in line to buy it, day one.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
But you need to realize that there is work involved with porting a game. Work is time, time is money. It is in every way your choice to not want to use a windows OS to play video games, not UWE.
They want to support their game in the manner they see fit. If the linux market (which is astronomically tiny in comparison to windows/mac) doesn't fit their design build, then that's their decision. I strongly doubt they'll abandon it, but you need to realize NS2 is as close to an Indie AAA as there is.
Seeing that was only available for Windows users at this time it would be pointless for you to get it yes.
Why you're making this post, I am not so sure. It just kind of reads like a kid who didn't get a Valentines Day card complaining.
Also that update was of May 2009... almost a year ago....
How long have you been following the blogs exactly?
And Charlie has said many times - especially if you listen to that wonderful podcast - that they're aiming for a cross platform release eventually. But when a majority of your funding has come from users playing off a mainstream operating system then you want to support your community....
You don't seem like part of the community too much, but they want to support you too!
See you when NS2 Linux is out :)
[...]
My point is this: Numerous threads on here have begged for a Linux/Mac build. It's not like the demand isn't there. It's obvious that UW has a loyal fan base, many of whom use Linux but are tied to Windows for just that *one* game. When/if (I pray it's "when") UW releases a native Linux client for NS2 I will be first in line to buy it, day one. But until then, I'm done following the blog, and as much as I'd love to support the team, I can't in good conscience spend that much money on something I may never use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well spoken. I too am a Linux person. Though i think, that in the light of  Steam heading towards Linux-compatibility and a general improvement in the ability of Wine being able to run Steam-games, this might be an acceptable solution for us "superior OS-users ;-)"
joke aside, I truly hope, that NS2 will be able to run under Linux one way or the other.
Buy the windows version, you'll more than likely get linux/mac builds included and just play on Windows while you wait for ports... rather than some speech to get recognised on why you don't want to buy a game, which quite frankly confuses me why you'd be so negative in a new thread rather than search the forums and view discussion prior to today's date around such a thing.
I wouldn't read too much into the tone of the sentence. We'd love to have NS2 on Linux. We would do that simultaneously with any port to Mac, but the lack of Steam on Linux throws up a big hurdle for us.
Go talk to Valve about being the first title to ship with Steam for Linux. :p
Yeah I was going to point this out, you will have this problem with any steam game.
Steam adds loads of excellent functions to a game, the community functions and steam frontend that comes with using it, as well as the sales platform are ideal for indie games because you can kinda just get them off the shelf and a lot of people already use them.
If you shift the game over to linux you lose all the steam functions, including the ability to actually buy the game off it, and it won't interface with the steam version's browser and community functions so you would be hard pressed to even get servers running.
Doesn't really make a lot of financial sense to write huge sections of code and frontend to appease a frankly miniscule subset of computer users, and certainly not when your first priority is to get the game finished and shipped.
As far as I know you can run it under WINE or something, but TBH it would be far easier and probably perform better if you just installed windows and ran it on that.
Far easier, absolutely. Getting games to work on Linux, even when they are released on Linux FIRST is a nightmare.
Perform better? Depends. Linux is more efficient than Vista, everyone admits that. Windows 7 is a definite maybe for being better than just running Wine.
In any case, I don't think anyone will get caught for getting Windows 7. It seems that getting a license is the preference.
I wish I could "like" this comment.
OP needs to chill out.
Perform better? Depends. Linux is more efficient than Vista, everyone admits that. Windows 7 is a definite maybe for being better than just running Wine.
In any case, I don't think anyone will get caught for getting Windows 7. It seems that getting a license is the preference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mm, depends on the computer, if you're short on memory but have a small render farm in your processor socket, a light linux distro and wine might work better. Lots of memory but weak processor, maybe windows.
Utility wise there isn't all that much it can do that you can't find a windows app for, and not very much stuff supports it, and most that does isn't supposed to and has to be run through emulators.
I suppose the fact that some versions are free is good, but free software is usually pretty rubbish compared to commerical equivalents. Photoshop is better than gimp, max better than blender, commercial sound editors better than audacity.
If you want all the functionality of windows or photoshop or max or any commercial software, you kinda need to install it.
Not about your opinion.
Not about Linux.
Also, Heroes of Newerth sucks.
Sounds like you are creating you're own problem though.
Windows 7 OEM is not much more expenseive than AAA pc title these days.
While linux may or may not be a superior OS you have to face the fact than 99% of PC games are created for windows because most home computers are windows based. Seeing as you use linux, you computer skills are most likely above the average joe, so you'd know this. And i just do see why you would fight it -especially when windows is so cheap to buy.
To me, its like complaining that halo is not on ps3. You wanna play halo, you buy an xbox.
Same deal for pc gaming.
The demand isn't there - while there were some threads - i wouldn't say that it would be an overwhelming number when compared to windows gamers.
I have pre-ordered, and even if NS2 doesn't entirely capture what made NS1 so unique, the SE $$$ will be a tip for some of the best gaming I had back with NS1.
Because we aren't game developers so we can't really change the game to fit your personal view (I am not saying it needs to change) so making a thread about it is a bit stupid.
We aren't your mind. Choose...!
They never promised a Linux version. They stated they would love to do it if it works for them. Ultimately at NS2's current state, Steam would need to be on Linux first.
Hopefully valve finishes the linux steam client sometime soon...
<a href="http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_steam_announcement&num=1" target="_blank">http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=arti...ement&num=1</a>
<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7715209/Steam-for-Mac-goes-live.html" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/appl...-goes-live.html</a>
You can fudge a work around to get steam to function on Linux <a href="http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_under_Linux" target="_blank">http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Steam_under_Linux</a>
well, if you read:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010/2/spark_engine_questions_and_answers_1" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010...s_and_answers_1</a>
you will come to the conclusion that they will come to a linux version sooner or later, even if the community would have to code some parts of it, and i think there are more than enough people here that would love to fill out those missing pieces (me included).
windows key should work under linux, but i would suggest the following:
linux se version:
access to linux alpha etc + special skulk skin (or another special marine skin).
linux normal version:
acess to linux beta etc
SE keys of the windows version should have access to the linux beta.
That way, if you preordered the windows version, no harm done (but you can still support uwe with another copy).
and uwe can see how much interest there is, and possibly decide to no develop the linux version if there are lets say, less than 500 preorders (random number) and refund the people that already preordered.
of course there is that steam problem.. but we can write our own server browser if needed, doesn't sound that hard to code.
What he said.
If you love supporting Indie labels, why not pre-order and go install it on your mates Windows PC? Or just buy windows? Or become an active member in the community, spread the word and get as many people as you can to pre-order/buy it so UWE have enough cash to do a linux port?
Can't believe you came onto the game's official forums and posted this