NS_Development

Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
in Mapping
Hello all. My name is Ryan Gholson, and I am a senior at the Art Institute of Tampa, about to graduate in about 5 months time with my 4 years Bachelors in fine arts for Game art Graphic and Design.

I have been playing natural selection sense BACK in the day. . If any one remembers the {DEAD} Clan servers and members that would play around the servers...I could be found amongst the {DEAD}Clan servers and members. (If any members of {DEAD}clan still around drop a line and say hello! :-)..Boobookitty,ivanhoe,scott,######boy, .......

SO to the MAP!

So i have been playing with the spark editor for about 2 weeks now and have built this map staring around the 6x8 map layout found int he Mapping Guidelines pdf. file found on your launch dashboard on the left side under the actual NS2 icon of a hive. I have made a few additions to the layout, but hope it still proves to be a balanced map. Need more of the editor to be released to really invest time into a smart laid out map with fun game play flow. but doing what I can and having a blast while doing it.

I love the BSP just PUSH and make a room/hall/extrude tool. its my friend :-)

So below I have a video of NS_Development

It is still very much a WIP and still have to move some of the rooms around so not so many are over lapping, as the commander view would have issues seeing the rooms below, and lighting and so on.

Im trying to keep in mind that NS2 maps are supposed to be based more around rooms and "Landmarks", so I am trying to go through the map and still build out a unique form throughout each room, even before I bring any props in, or lighting.

All crits and advice or what ever are of course welcome! :-)

Thanks bunch for your time and I hope you'll enjoy the future updates while I go through and continue to build this map out.


<img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/Untitled-1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Video Link:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvRL7lqYVHk&feature=youtube_gdata" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvRL7lqYVHk...e=youtube_gdata</a>
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Comments

  • n00b3hn00b3h Join Date: 2003-03-02 Member: 14205Members
    This video has been removed because it is too long. Regular YouTube videos must be 10 minutes or less.

    :(
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    ahh poop...srry posted it last night at around 5AM. ill go ahead and split up. ^.^.. check back latter today...thanks!
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    Ok so here are the new videos cut in half... srry for that.

    Enjoy!

    Video Links:
    (Video part1)
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYoWw_samsY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYoWw_samsY</a>

    (Video Part2)
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo35aSdVyOs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo35aSdVyOs</a>
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    edited April 2010
    So was able to work a bit more on the lay out of the map. Feel like the final shape of the layout is close. And most of the rooms are now formed.

    All the tech points are now there and all the resource points are now placed.

    Really the only things I see changing are the hall way primary and secondary layouts. (just adjust running time from aliens to middle of map and marine to middle of map to be of equal time)

    The rooms still need to be modified a touch to give unique features.

    not to much longer and I'll start diving in with the props.

    Feedback on the room map layout would be appropriated. (I'm a touch worried that there are to many resource towers and the games resources will be not as valuable as they would be with less...but I wont to wait till beta test that aspect and decide then)

    Thanks you!

    Updated Map:
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/NS_Development_TopView-1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    Also still need to add vents throughout the map....want to make sure all the main rooms are finalized first to the way they will be shaped and placed amongst the level.

    But vents will probably be the next update.
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  • RazorRazor Join Date: 2010-02-23 Member: 70695Members
    edited April 2010
    Do you have a deadline you need to meet by the end of the semester? Jus' sayin cause that's a lot to map especially if you are going to go prop heavy per room. I see you have 4? Tech nodes I don't know if its a requirement but it is strongly suggested that you have 5-6 tech points so that each team can get to Tech3 or the 5th one will be fought over to reach it. Also, 16 Res nodes is a <b>lot</b>. If it were me, I'd try to make the map smaller and fairly simple so I know I can make it look really good and have it finished. /recalling my senior semester I planned out this huge and elaborate map and then part of the way through I realized wouldn't have the time to finish it along with my other projects.

    btw. whats with all of the fish?
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    I think you have too many resource towers and not enough Tech nodes/spawns.

    The corridor on the left is outrageously long and unnecessary too.
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    Ya I have a feeling That 16 is a lot of resources. I might cut it down to 12. I feel as if the size of the map is big enough to house 12 towers and still be a fun game. (BUT will find out once map is tested..)

    Also I very much agree about the tech points... I have added 2 more to the level, so there are 6 tech points now. So all tiers can be reached.

    Im still trying to work to corridor travel down to a minimum. If you have to travel, I am trying to force the player to travel through rooms, with just small corridors connecting... But some rooms NEED to connect to each other and by pass some other rooms that are in between.. soo I get long corridors... Still trying to figure a creative layout for these few rooms and corridors.

    Was able to put a good 4 hours of revising this morning on the room and hallway layouts.. Nothing yet I want to post because I am not exactly sure if its going to work till i finish it....

    Next update will most likely be the polished map including the start of the ventilation layout.

    @Razor: Nah this is not for any class related projects, so have no deadline except for get it done and get it right. Im hoping to finish this map completely in no more then 4-5 months (with quite a few other projects going on)..but that is the personal goal.

    Will have an update in maybe a week time. Thanks for interest...
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    So went ahead and I think finalized the layout of the map. (Minus vents still..there's only two vents right now in the hole map)...

    I believe this layout is much more balanced and utilizes every corridor as a necessity, so hopefully no routes are being developed and wont be ran through many times in game....(trying to not waste time in the map)

    So here is an update on the map layout.
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/NS_Development_topView_03.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Vents and maybe even the start of prop layout next...

    Feedback and comment is really appreciated on this version of the map. Thanks!

    (Also the "fish" looking things in the map, are actually the top view of the onos model placed all over the place.. lol.. I laughed out loud when i read you saw them as fish, cause now every time I see it from top view, i see FISH!.. :-)... ty for the smile...)
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    edited April 2010
    That bottom right res node is really complex and unnecessary. Why do you need a path all around that room? Keep it simple.
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    edited April 2010
    The layout looks way overcomplicated.

    People are likely to get lost quite easily, and you're going to have a hard time making all the areas look visually unique so people remember which area is which.

    While having a minimap helps navigation, it's important to be able to do it by eye, and as NS2 doesn't really give you the ability to see the entire map and get an idea of the layout as well as having visible landmarks in the distance to aim at when moving, it means you need to be fairly simple.

    I would suggest knocking some of the rooms into one and placing some <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsurmountableWaistHeightFence" target="_blank">insurmountable waist high fences</a> inside them. That will let you see across the area enough to get a general idea of it, lets you spread a single theme out more, and still lets you keep the confined spaces neccesary for aliens to work.
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    edited April 2010
    Ya I know, its complex. I have issues with trying to keep things simple. Networks of networks just look beautiful to me. lol. But I know there NOT fun to play in. So im trying to cut down the complexity of the map. If u saw form the first map post i have cut down a lot of the halls and what not. I think yall are correct and I might cut it down even more into 8-10 res nodes. and cut a few of the outer rooms out. But honestly I would rather try and figure a way to make the map navigate-able through unique design and light schemes rather then just cutting it down into big rooms and simple halls connecting them.

    I know there's smart mapping and its different from being stubborn. But I want to challenge myself into making this work. Its already going to "look" good to a certain point, sense the art prop work is beautiful before it even touches a map, so I wanna do it justice by putting some amount of hard work into making it work without pretty flash in the map, and having it be an exciting fun map with nothing but simple textures and plain walls.

    Some ideas i have to make navigation easier:
    Light important path ways with brighter lighting
    -Light rooms and halls with a gradient lighting that gets more green or just color polluted in general as you get closer to the hive.
    -Have more and move destroyed objects closer to the hive
    -Was thinking about having elevation help navigate too
    -Were all halls that rise upward will be heading toward the marine main commander
    -All elevation dropping will be heading to hive.
    -Still not sure about this though cause i don't think it will work to help navigate through the other rooms and tech points. Only helps player into showing were the hive and main marine base is at.

    -Unique roof and shadow castings from room onto floor.
    -I think the shadow that will be cast from the ceiling onto the floor will be one of the most used navigation tools to be able to identify what room your in as well as WERE to head to the next room of importance.

    -And then last Im trying to figure out a way to have the player know whether he is heading north, south, east or west no matter where he is in the map....
    -Might do this by adden certain architecture features only on south facing walls...such as the marine symbol or actual protruding formations of sorts....not really sure yet, but might help the player to recognize him self in the room to the direction he is facing and heading by using the all the elements together




    Also for that bottom right res node:
    There are two main entrance to the room. One from the marine spawn to the left (This is the Primary Route) and one from the alien spawn/rest of the north map (This is the 2nd Path....NOT "Secondary"...still a main path to travel, just the 2nd of the room) which is the path you are talking about that is not necessary.

    the path connecting that room (blue) with the room above it (yellow) that leaves from the north side of the room might be the path I cut actually ( The "Secondary" path). it was supposed to be a "secondary" route that would allow the player to go into that res room and be able to see the res node (if under attack, being built around and so on) and be able to decide to have to take the second path out of the room, which is the one that looks as if it wraps around the room (when it really is just a ramp running the side of the room. You can see into the room from the pathway. The res node is actually on the path way, not the room. So from the room you can see the res-node, but have to travel the second path upward to reach it.) in order to save or build the res-node. If no action is needed, then the player can skip the path that wraps around the room and continue upward through the "secondary path" (which i am considering cutting, to force the player through the main longer path....but not sure if this will make the travel time to the middle tech point to long and unbalanced now with the aliens travel time) into the next res-node room.

    I know it might look as if the two res nodes are really close together form the top-down view, (this is with the secondary path still there so how it is now). But if you look harder, the res node in the bottom of the two rooms is not in that room. You have to enter the room then run south into a corridor that wraps around the room then protrudes back into the room but one story high up. So the player has to run this path. And from here the player has to travel a bit either north or go back south through the room and then take the "secondary" path north. Either way the forward traveling or back tracking to go through the secondary path, the distance traveled from res to res is equal.

    But even with that explanation I might cut the "secondary" path to just force the flow of traffic to have to pass the res-node every-time someone wants to travel that part of the map...If so then ill have to change the layout of the res corridor, to make it not so boring and just a long stretching hall.

    This helps me figure my own thoughts out by typing this stuff out. So if anyone is confused on parts of the map I will be happy to explain them out. (this forces me to re-think my logic and the layout...some times while explain to someone I realize an error, or that the thought process doesn't make sense, and so on....So thanks, if yall read this and np too if not. More changes to come! :-)

    Thanks again from the interest in the map, please keep pointing things out, if it cant be reasoned why its there and how it helps game play and flow...then I SHOULD either take it out or re-work it.

    Thanks again.
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    Heres a little video update. Able to see kind of the layout of the rooms now. hope you enjoy. :-)

    Link:
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGCeyLfjw_Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGCeyLfjw_Y</a>
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  • Lemming JesusLemming Jesus Join Date: 2010-04-13 Member: 71385Members
    Way too big. I'm also against the double res in the starts. Way too many halls.
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    edited May 2010
    So been going through and refining the BSP layout and pretty sure I am set on a solid layout. Ill go over some of the specs of the level when I feel like im at a TRUE checkpoint. (specs such as, tech>tech point run time, MS>AS run time and so on. before props are placed, from MS to AS takes 45 seconds.)

    So, as I said this really isnt a checkpoint, or even a point where I should show renders, sence Im pretty sure a alot will be changing. SPECUALLY IN THE LIGHTING....At the current moment not an incredable amount of time has been put into the lighting of this room. Still trying to feel it out.

    In this room, there are two dig sites, a operations room, and metal structure connecting the two.

    Showing Lower Level under Metal Structure/Catwalk
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/lower_level_catwalkstructure.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Heading Down Catwalk Looking At Entrance Way to Digsite 01
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/headingdowncatwalk_lookingat_entran.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />


    Looking At Dig Site 01
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/04.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    DigSite01
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/digsite01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    edited May 2010
    Heading Down Catwalk Looking At Digsite 02
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/headingdowncatwalk_lookingat_digsit.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Digsite02
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/digsite02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />



    ResNode From Nest in Roof
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/nest_above_techpoint.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    VentSystem/Overlooking ResNode
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/vent_looking_at_res.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Vent
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/vent.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Catwalk Corner
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/catwalkturn.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Looking into TechRoom
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/techroom.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Looking at Tech
    <img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Rghol5212/stairs_leading_tech.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />




    Heres a little run around video of the room..

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTs7s-55M8A&feature=youtube_gdata" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTs7s-55M8A...e=youtube_gdata</a>

    These are just meant to show current work in progress. and In no way reflect the final product.

    Thanks a bunch for interest and any feedback.

    More to come...
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  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    edited May 2010
    kick ass screens. You've got a nice eye for making a good scene.
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  • GISPGISP Battle Gorge Denmark Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
    Are you not concerned about the commander not being able to see properly? You seem to have alot of props at the cealing, and multiple levels on top of eachother :S
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  • SgtBarlowSgtBarlow Level Designer Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22749Members, NS2 Developer
    He has made a huge error there unfortunatly.
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  • Tin_Foil_HelmetTin_Foil_Helmet Join Date: 2005-06-20 Member: 54276Members
    I am concerned about it. Just not really sure how it will turn out. I have tried to cut the overlapping of rooms and halls down to pretty much only once it happens. The levels on top of each other like the catwalk platform with the dig site under it, I am hoping will not be a problem in game play. And I was wondering about the props my self....I think I do have to rework the ceiling props to lighting them up that are above the res-node its self. But other then that there are just support beams running along the ceiling. Through testing I can see how much these get in the way.. Simple fix to just remove.

    Thank you for pointing it out. Will try and rework it a touch... More to come....
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