What am I need to Design a Map Easily

yimmasabiyimmasabi Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58318Members
edited April 2010 in Mapping
<div class="IPBDescription">This may be personal but you can send yours cuz it is for UW</div>Hello there,

Engine works great, everything is fine. Ok now what I need to design a map are listed here. Thereby I can finish my basic model of my map.

1. A command console view, that I can put sieges or any other stuff easily, to the corner of the rooms etc. When I put a siege, there should be
a circle which shows siege range and if there is a hive and can be sieged from that point hive should be red. This may be also usefull for turrets,
offence chambers against Res. Towers. I know whole items for both rines and aliens are not finished but testing map in Spark Editor as a commander
may be helpfull if it is availble.

2. I would like to use less lights but I want to make lighter maps. Test Engine shows that with these settings mostly maps will be dark, and i remmembered
Quake, Bioshock maps etc. But mostly NS maps are lighter maps. So there should be a general illumination parameter for places or for textures or for areas
or for the map which makes maps lighter in the lit mod without using any lights

3. An easy way to join 2 open rectangles (i.e. doors of 2 rooms). Still I get difficulties while joining 2 parts of the map or maps.

4. Painting 3D top view with colours and we can name places.

5. When I draw a rectangle it may be automatically scaled to default vent sizes may be by using a key. For skulks, fades, onoses.


Thanx for hearing those things.

Regards.

Comments

  • shaq_mobileshaq_mobile Join Date: 2009-12-10 Member: 69575Members
    edited April 2010
    <b>I should be nicer.</b>
  • SlycasterSlycaster Limited Edition Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 24Members, NS1 Playtester
    If you read the mapping guidelines, they talk about the MASC, which is the mobile seige cannon that uses LoS. So there is no need to make spots for siege cannons ala NS1.

    Also, NS1 is bright because HL is terrible at rending dark areas, NS2 is about atmosphere and they encourage dark corners, etc.
  • StandardStandard Join Date: 2003-12-06 Member: 24048Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1766568:date=Apr 13 2010, 04:15 PM:name=shaq_mobile)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shaq_mobile @ Apr 13 2010, 04:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fortunately, you don't need grammar to make maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This forum could do with one less d***bag though.
  • SlycasterSlycaster Limited Edition Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 24Members, NS1 Playtester
    Guys, cool out on the flaming.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    If you want to check gameplay you can just load up the game, the engine supports hot loading so you just change the map and then reload the level with cheats and spawn your gameplay stuff to test, no compile times or anything, or you can just remember the relevant ranges or create a light entity with the ranges in it as falloff data and use its falloff sphere to display it, there's lots of ways to do basic measurements in maps.

    If you want the map brighter just add a light, that's what lights are for, if your room is dark, add an ambient light to make the shadows brighter, a global background illumiation system takes a lot of work to avoid making things look horribly flat, you'll get better looking results if you just add ambient lights where needed.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1766567:date=Apr 13 2010, 04:12 PM:name=yimmasabi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yimmasabi @ Apr 13 2010, 04:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766567"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hello there,

    Engine works great, everything is fine. Ok now what I need to design a map are listed here. Thereby I can finish my basic model of my map.

    1. A command console view, that I can put sieges or any other stuff easily, to the corner of the rooms etc. When I put a siege, there should be
    a circle which shows siege range and if there is a hive and can be sieged from that point hive should be red. This may be also usefull for turrets,
    offence chambers against Res. Towers. I know whole items for both rines and aliens are not finished but testing map in Spark Editor as a commander
    may be helpfull if it is availble.
    <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->This is only an engine test not an alpha or gameplay test. Commander view isn't available right now, hold on tight! As far as for testing out sizes etc. the mapping guidelines have given a 900 unit radius around the MASC with splash damage of 394 units around the target<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->


    2. I would like to use less lights but I want to make lighter maps. Test Engine shows that with these settings mostly maps will be dark, and i remmembered
    Quake, Bioshock maps etc. But mostly NS maps are lighter maps. So there should be a general illumination parameter for places or for textures or for areas
    or for the map which makes maps lighter in the lit mod without using any lights
    <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->A well employed lighting technique is an omni well placed with low intensity (0.1 up to 4) with a high fall off (200-1000) which can light up larger areas and make areas brighter. <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->


    3. An easy way to join 2 open rectangles (i.e. doors of 2 rooms). Still I get difficulties while joining 2 parts of the map or maps.
    <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->You can extrude rectangles as in the tutorials or simply create your level a bit more subtractively, so place everything as and when you need it. I suggest watching Mendasps time-lapse videos for such technique here: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=108361" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=108361</a><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->


    4. Painting 3D top view with colours and we can name places.
    <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->You can create your layout in photoshop or alternatively print screen your map from top down and do so in photoshop yourself.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->


    5. When I draw a rectangle it may be automatically scaled to default vent sizes may be by using a key. For skulks, fades, onoses.
    <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->It's a level editor. It requires you to work it and use it, unfortunately you will have to create your faces or place your models with the correct spacing and sizing. All sizes can be seen in the mapping guidelines once again.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->


    Thanx for hearing those things.

    Regards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Replied in quotes, in orange. If you need any 'live' help or questions answered I'd be happy to answer them. I will be in #nsmapping for the next 6 hours and will generally be there 1800BST (UK time) onwards.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Come to think of it you would probably be able to easily make a texture in photoshop and then just stick it on a plane over the top view, and then toggle it with a layer. The technique is called rotoscoping when you use it to build a level but you could just as easily use it for navigation in-editor.
  • SKYYSKYY Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10070Members
    edited April 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1766568:date=Apr 13 2010, 11:15 AM:name=shaq_mobile)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shaq_mobile @ Apr 13 2010, 11:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fortunately, you don't need grammar to make maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Don't be an asshat, he's from Turkey. How's your Turkish grammar?

    He brings up valid points. I'd hate to see NS2 be shelved as "yet another DOOM-3-esque flashlight simulator" when everyone starts releasing their super-cool-and-spooky pitch black maps with the one 50-radius .25 intensity light in each corner.

    The best technique for now is as mentioned--use a single point light with very low intensity over a very large radius with no shadows/environment effects.

    I'm pretty sure it's going to be a game that most players resort to using their video drivers to up gamma/contrast to compensate for the darkness.
  • yimmasabiyimmasabi Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58318Members
    Wow thank you so much for that fast reply, and thank you for the MASC radius but there is also no tool to measure, and I really dont know if it includes whole hive or
    center of the hive, or only touch of a corner of a hive is enough.


    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. I would like to use less lights but I want to make lighter maps. Test Engine shows that with these settings mostly maps will be dark, and i remmembered
    Quake, Bioshock maps etc. But mostly NS maps are lighter maps. So there should be a general illumination parameter for places or for textures or for areas
    or for the map which makes maps lighter in the lit mod without using any lights

    A well employed lighting technique is an omni well placed with low intensity (0.1 up to 4) with a high fall off (200-1000) which can light up larger areas and make areas brighter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yess, I know this but I want to make fast map by using less lights as engine do in unlit mode. It is like unlit mode with lower ambient light but lights also works. This may be
    very helpfull to reduce number of lights and cpu/gpu loads.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. Painting 3D top view with colours and we can name places.
    You can create your layout in photoshop or alternatively print screen your map from top down and do so in photoshop yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, ofcourse I did It with soldiworks 3D :) I mean this may be usefull while designing a map in editor.


    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. An easy way to join 2 open rectangles (i.e. doors of 2 rooms). Still I get difficulties while joining 2 parts of the map or maps.
    You can extrude rectangles as in the tutorials or simply create your level a bit more subtractively, so place everything as and when you need it. I suggest watching Mendasps time-lapse videos for such technique here: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=108361" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=108361</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ok this problem is happened to me while joining 2 rooms, one of the room is rotated about 135 degree or something like that. So while joining 2 doors of these 2 rooms should be very easy. I try to draw lines but some of 2 lines with other 2 are not being an area. May be it is about positions of rooms and line composition of doors.
  • GingerGiantGingerGiant Join Date: 2010-04-03 Member: 71157Members
    For me, creating lighter rooms (with less lights) is as simple as putting three white/pale-yellow lights with intensity 1 and fairly large radius (~250-300) in an even spread across the room, just above the height of a marine. If you check out my blog, <a href="http://ggspark.blogspot.com" target="_blank">GGSpark</a>, there's a picture of my current marine base for a map. Even though there are only two fixtures in the room, I used about 14 low-intensity lights light up the room. Also, I don't use shadows on most of my lights. It's easier on the graphics card, and I think it helps the lighting appear more natural.

    When you say you want bright light, I assume you mean you want good visibility. For a given light fixture, experiment with using several lights. For my furnace map, I use a combination of white, orange, red, and pale yellow lights. I never use colors like orange and red by themselves, though. I make sure to pair them with pale yellows and white lights.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    #2 The only thing you can do is set shadows to false in lit mode. Otherwise use unlit. You're not going to get anything else from any editor let alone Spark.

    The others seem like general face creation, that's up to you to do so ;)
  • BreadManBreadMan Join Date: 2002-12-15 Member: 10854Members, Retired Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1766574:date=Apr 13 2010, 10:26 AM:name=Cyanide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyanide @ Apr 13 2010, 10:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you read the mapping guidelines, they talk about the MASC, which is the mobile seige cannon that uses LoS. So there is no need to make spots for siege cannons ala NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not sure where you read that they're LoS Cyanide, they still shoot through walls like NS1 sieges.

    For range checks I just draw a circle with the circle tool then size it up with the scale tool to 1800x1800 (you can see dimensions at the bottom of the screen when using the tool). Then I move it around the area I'm checking, the move gizmo will always be in the center when you do this.
  • Lemming JesusLemming Jesus Join Date: 2010-04-13 Member: 71385Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1766596:date=Apr 13 2010, 11:16 AM:name=yimmasabi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yimmasabi @ Apr 13 2010, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766596"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow thank you so much for that fast reply, and thank you for the MASC radius but there is also no tool to measure<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I feel your pain. They give us a bunch of measurements with no way to measure. Text that hovers above selected lines would make it easier. I also wish vertex snapping was easy to do.
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    The scale tool gives you the size of the objects selected, so you have a way to measure.
  • RazorRazor Join Date: 2010-02-23 Member: 70695Members
    Yeah, the scale tool is good to use or if you are measuring a space or distance you can use the line/square tool, although you have to watch where the line is being drawn. I really wish they had the middle mouse button draw a ruler for measuring like in UnrealEd.
  • Jack O'NeillJack O'Neill Join Date: 2010-01-29 Member: 70356Members
    u say hot loading but im using win7 and when i make a quick change in spark and save it while having the map open in engine ,then when i try to reload the change is not applied in the game? i need to like "save as" under different name so now im switching between 2 names to see the changes ingame.

    my ns2 is under programms x86
  • GenomaxterGenomaxter Join Date: 2003-10-11 Member: 21597Members
    ya, I'm wondering about the hot loading as well since I have windows 7. What exactly has/is the hot loading ability people are speaking of?
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    edited April 2010
    There was a blog post a long time ago about hotloading textures and different stuff in the engine.

    Right now it doesn't seem to work, it doesn't show your updates to the map by reloading. To get your updated map you have to load a second (different) map then load your map again.
  • Jack O'NeillJack O'Neill Join Date: 2010-01-29 Member: 70356Members
  • taledentaleden Join Date: 2003-04-06 Member: 15252Members, Constellation
    Just to clarify: is the MASC range a 900-unit-radius *sphere*, or is it a 900-unit-radius *cylinder* of infinite height? If rooms are near eachother but at different heights, this could make a big difference.
  • BreadManBreadMan Join Date: 2002-12-15 Member: 10854Members, Retired Developer
    Cylinder, same as NS1. This is to make sure the overlay for siege radius is accurate for commanders.
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