Discuss: See Own Body

spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
in NS2 General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">look down, see feet?</div>Well.... read the topic title. Should we try to get the rest of the Marine's body into the first-person view?


I will say that it's a great immersion factor. Really made my day for Mirror's Edge. However, I don't know if the aesthetic add-on is worth the extra time.

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • WispWisp Join Date: 2007-12-18 Member: 63211Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    I like this a lot in games. It's very cool. Crysis does it, as well a little Half-Life 2 WW2 mod called Resistance and Liberation.

    I don't think it's all that difficult or time-consuming to implement.
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  • TadModTadMod Join Date: 2010-01-08 Member: 69987Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1765725:date=Apr 11 2010, 07:36 AM:name=Wisp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wisp @ Apr 11 2010, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like this a lot in games. It's very cool. Crysis does it, as well a little Half-Life 2 WW2 mod called Resistance and Liberation.

    I don't think it's all that difficult or time-consuming to implement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    needless to say, it's also very cool and immersive. When I looked down for the first time in Crysis, I was pleasantly surprise to see my body, which was strange. I mean, something which we should expect to see becomes something we're shocked to see XD
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  • ClinkClink Join Date: 2009-06-07 Member: 67728Members
    I wouldnt mind being able to see my badass black armored feet.
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  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    Yes please, sure helps with the immersion.
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  • TgaudTgaud Join Date: 2009-05-01 Member: 67323Members
    See your own body isn't so important.
    what's would be cool would be to see our own shadow when moving
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  • WatchMakerWatchMaker Join Date: 2003-09-26 Member: 21233Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1765727:date=Apr 11 2010, 03:50 AM:name=Clink)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clink @ Apr 11 2010, 03:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765727"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wouldnt mind being able to see my badass black armored feet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This.
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  • Draco_2kDraco_2k Evil Genius Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69546Members
    Please no. I have not seen a proper implementation of this in game yet - including ME - and so I don't really count on it.
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  • whoppaXXLwhoppaXXL Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58298Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    In Dark Messiah it was well done.
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  • ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver
    I thought this was going to be a topic about reflecting on our own bodies, followed by a discussion on body image and the roles of the media in forming our mental pictures of the "ideal" body.

    I was wrong.

    --Scythe--
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  • whoppaXXLwhoppaXXL Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58298Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1765773:date=Apr 11 2010, 02:37 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Apr 11 2010, 02:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765773"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought this was going to be a topic about reflecting on our own bodies, followed by a discussion on body image and the roles of the media in forming our mental pictures of the "ideal" body.

    I was wrong.

    --Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, it could be a metaphor. So, tell your thoughts ;)
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  • RedDragonRedDragon Join Date: 2003-01-13 Member: 12240Members, NS2 Map Tester
    While aesthetically pleasing, I'm not sure such a feature is necessary to make this game immersive. When NS was originally released, the things that had the most impact on my experience were the sounds and lights within each level. Map design and layout also played a large part in creating an immersive atmosphere I believe, but combined with excellent lighting and excellent ambient noise events really created an intense atmosphere.

    When NS was still almost unplayable in multilayer due to some mysterious lag issue, I used to load up private servers and just explore the maps, just because of the feeling I got being in the environment.

    That said, being able to see yourself is an aspect of "realism" that can draw you into the game your playing, but remember that poor implementation of any system, however well intentioned, will have an immediate negative effect on your experience. The new AvP game implemented this sort of system rather well, I thought, but it illustrates many of the unexpected side effects (as an alien) of having a non-human "body". Its fun that you can see the your feet and tail as an alien, but its a little annoying that every time you look left or right, you take a step in the opposite direction as your body swings around and compensates.

    As well, forced perspective changes can make movement very disorienting in some cases. Again using AvP as a reference, while transitioning between a wall and a ceiling as an alien, you're perspective can become seemingly inverted and you have to take a moment to readjust as you figure out how to "look down" at the floor. A system where the player has not "body" can easily ignore this kind of situation, for say a skulk, and keep a consistent perspective for the player during such transitions. Down will always be down, and up will always be up.

    I say forgo the body. Its a nice aesthetic, but not strictly necessary.
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  • AbraAbra Would you kindly Join Date: 2003-08-17 Member: 19870Members
    My own body is aesthetically pleasing.

    Also, if there is time, sure. But it's not really top priority, speaking for myself.

    English is hard when you are hungover.
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  • Denton22Denton22 Join Date: 2010-03-08 Member: 70878Members
    Would like to see that with own shadow in the FP
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  • Wyattx3Wyattx3 Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18386Members
    I really liked in l4d how you could see your own legs, especially jumping from train to train running from zombies and looking down.

    It really is such a small thing that I would probably not care at all if it wasn't in, yet it is one of those things that makes the game feel cooler.
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  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1765853:date=Apr 11 2010, 11:28 AM:name=Wyattx3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyattx3 @ Apr 11 2010, 11:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really liked in l4d how you could see your own legs, especially jumping from train to train running from zombies and looking down.

    It really is such a small thing that I would probably not care at all if it wasn't in, yet it is one of those things that makes the game feel cooler.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Sadly it was gone from l4d2.
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  • WispWisp Join Date: 2007-12-18 Member: 63211Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    <!--quoteo(post=1765796:date=Apr 11 2010, 12:31 PM:name=RedDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedDragon @ Apr 11 2010, 12:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While aesthetically pleasing, I'm not sure such a feature is necessary to make this game immersive. When NS was originally released, the things that had the most impact on my experience were the sounds and lights within each level. Map design and layout also played a large part in creating an immersive atmosphere I believe, but combined with excellent lighting and excellent ambient noise events really created an intense atmosphere.

    When NS was still almost unplayable in multilayer due to some mysterious lag issue, I used to load up private servers and just explore the maps, just because of the feeling I got being in the environment.

    That said, being able to see yourself is an aspect of "realism" that can draw you into the game your playing, but remember that poor implementation of any system, however well intentioned, will have an immediate negative effect on your experience. The new AvP game implemented this sort of system rather well, I thought, but it illustrates many of the unexpected side effects (as an alien) of having a non-human "body". Its fun that you can see the your feet and tail as an alien, but its a little annoying that every time you look left or right, you take a step in the opposite direction as your body swings around and compensates.

    As well, forced perspective changes can make movement very disorienting in some cases. Again using AvP as a reference, while transitioning between a wall and a ceiling as an alien, you're perspective can become seemingly inverted and you have to take a moment to readjust as you figure out how to "look down" at the floor. A system where the player has not "body" can easily ignore this kind of situation, for say a skulk, and keep a consistent perspective for the player during such transitions. Down will always be down, and up will always be up.

    I say forgo the body. Its a nice aesthetic, but not strictly necessary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You are citing a really bad example. We are talking about the body of the Marine. This is in a lot of games, and there are no issues with it being disorienting. Many players won't even notice it, unless they look straight down. I don't think anyone think the Alien characters are lacking in immersion, you can already see the inside of your month. Plus you are four-legged as a Skulk, Onos, and Gorge, so can't exactly look at your own body very easily. A Lerk looking at its own body would just be it trying and trying, but ultimately spinning in the air repeatedly. So for the Aliens: no need. For the Marine: no need, but it would very much appreciated.
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  • Skyforger2Skyforger2 Join Date: 2007-10-19 Member: 62681Members
    I a for it. i was actually expecting to see my legs at least in engine test, was quite surprised when i didn't.
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  • slayer20slayer20 Killed a man once. Join Date: 2007-12-13 Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I prefer not to see my body when playing. I think it's more immersion imaging my body there instead of actually seeing it. And really, legs get in my way when I look down :P
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  • TgaudTgaud Join Date: 2009-05-01 Member: 67323Members
    am i the only one to care about shadows ?
    to move close to a light and see our own shadows reflected ?
    it's quite immersive...
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  • WispWisp Join Date: 2007-12-18 Member: 63211Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    edited April 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1765918:date=Apr 11 2010, 06:10 PM:name=slayer20)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (slayer20 @ Apr 11 2010, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I prefer not to see my body when playing. I think it's more immersion imaging my body there instead of actually seeing it. And really, legs get in my way when I look down :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Maybe they should take out the gun model and the aliens and you can play in a great big grey box, so that way you can 'imagine' everything. It would be far more immersive.
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  • MacCoyMacCoy Join Date: 2009-11-24 Member: 69515Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1765854:date=Apr 11 2010, 04:29 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Apr 11 2010, 04:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sadly it was gone from l4d2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    i loved looking at my feet in the first left 4 dead......and the main reason i havent bought l4d2 yet is cause they for some reason...removed the legs....

    i just find it awkward looking down and seeing NOTHING....

    same goes with other characters having shadows and not me...am i a ghost?
    am i just a gun and a camera floating in the air?...yes....but id love to think otherwise...
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  • RazorRazor Join Date: 2010-02-23 Member: 70695Members
    I personally could careless if I could look at my feet, its not something that intentionally do more than once anyway. Sure its a nice for immersion but how often will you be looking that low anyway? Only if there was a getting knocked back or ragdoll on death cam would I see as it as a requirement.
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  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1765773:date=Apr 11 2010, 06:37 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Apr 11 2010, 06:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765773"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought this was going to be a topic about reflecting on our own bodies, followed by a discussion on body image and the roles of the media in forming our mental pictures of the "ideal" body.

    I was wrong.

    --Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I'm concerned over the size of the codpiece of my 'rine!
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  • johhny djohhny d Join Date: 2010-04-08 Member: 71215Members
    i like the idea, but its not that so important for me to have in ns2, i vote for both: if we have it or not.


    To bad you cant shoot your self in the foot......
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  • SidSid Corwid of the Free Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12903Members, Constellation
    It really adds to the immersion/atmosphere, I think.

    Shouldn't be all that hard to do - I mean Tribes 1/2 did it - and that was 1998!
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  • Mr. EpicMr. Epic Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18660Members, Constellation
    it would be nice
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  • linfosomalinfosoma Join Date: 2009-05-28 Member: 67523Members
    I would love this.
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  • FraxinusFraxinus Join Date: 2008-03-02 Member: 63783Members, Constellation
    type thirdperson in the engine test
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  • DrownDrown Underwater Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10392Members
    I don't like it when I can see my own feet, but I do like it when I can see my own shadow. Being able to see your own body doesn't work in the same way that the skulk throat-cam does work. Sometimes you have to take liberties with realism in order to achieve immersion.
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  • shaq_mobileshaq_mobile Join Date: 2009-12-10 Member: 69575Members
    I don't know if ya'll remember a little game called "Trespasser". Probably the first game the ever feature one's own body upon looking down, also the first to use a heart shaped tattoo on previously mentioned body as a health meter.

    See link: <a href="http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Trespasser/trespasser_02.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/Tresp...espasser_02.jpg</a>
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