People always say Sieges are the only way for Marines to take out fortified Alien bases...have they never heard of the Grenade Launcher?
It's always "Well Aliens have Fades with Bile Bomb!". Isn't the frickin' Grenade Launcher more like the Bile Bomb than anything else ANYWAY? The Siege Turret is just thrown in there for kicks.
As for Marines NEEDING the Siege to win...that'd probably be because the armour on Aliens is bugged all to hell and it takes twice as many shots to kill a beCarapaced Fade as it rightly should. Never mind the fact Skulks go from 10 normal-LMG shots to kill to <b>TWENTY-ONE</b> once they have Carapace 3. That extra 20 armour goes a mighty long way.
Yeah, a siege cannon opening up on your hive isn't any fun. But, y'know, it's just as unfun to stroll out of your base and run smack into a pair of Onos. Each team has one defense-cracker, they're meant to be powerful because it takes that power to break open a turtled hive or base. It's the players job to keep the other team from getting those monsters into the game, and it's a whole lot easier to destroy a turret factory than to stop a rampaging Onos.
I'll be blunt here: Sieges are nessecary (sp?). If Aliens have structures outside the base, you cant move, and when you have a guy using the GL, by that time there are fades, which also means that you are under constant attack, and the kiddies with GL cant spare time for building erradication. This also means you have no resource towers because your way out is dead. But thats okay right? NO!
Aliens are the masters of hit and run, without sieges they would be unstopable, simple as that. And as for offense turrets, you'd be suprised how powerful they are, as a HA marine its hard to take out 3 by the time they kill you.
The issue that needs to be adressed here is not whether or not to take it away, but to fix it's existing bugs (click on TF to upgrade, cant because of bug, and no sieges) It's bugs like that that let Aliens win (I won it for aliens once, built a bunch of offense turrets in eclipse command and killed off the base.).
Well don't forget that once bile bomb and xenocide are fixed, so will grenade launchers and siege cannons. By late game, I envision turrets and towers as being so much tinfoil just as any defense becomes in late game RTS. It becomes a necessity to bring games to a close.
Cone on, everybody, get off it. The aliens get the defense chambers, countless offense chambers, and the Onos. The best thing the Frontiersmen get is the Siege Cannon! It doesn't attack units, except for splash damage, which is easily avoided, and it doesn't even take chambers down quickly! It usually takes a whole minute to take down a chamber. Don't think that that's very long? Try holding your breath. START NOW!
<!--QuoteBegin--Kitsune+Nov 26 2002, 05:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kitsune @ Nov 26 2002, 05:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah, a siege cannon opening up on your hive isn't any fun. But, y'know, it's just as unfun to stroll out of your base and run smack into a pair of Onos. Each team has one defense-cracker, they're meant to be powerful because it takes that power to break open a turtled hive or base. It's the players job to keep the other team from getting those monsters into the game, and it's a whole lot easier to destroy a turret factory than to stop a rampaging Onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you need 3 hives for Onos, (3 hives for xenocide and bileboms also) when all you need to build the most powerful weapon in game is a turretfactory and the siege itself.
Thats 25+25(for the upgrade)+15 res.
Lets see
second hive (80 res) + third hive (80 res)... And thats just to be able to use xenocide. If you want to be onos it will cost another 70 res.
Siege: 65res 3rd hive skills: 160res
And how often do you even have 3 hives because of siege? Compair getting a turret factory and a siege up against getting 3 hives..... 3rd hive skills only comes late in the games when a siege can be builded very fast and early in the game.
yeah i think it would be best if the siege cannon was marine ran.. like u kinda board into some seat for the siege cannon and marine controls it... that would be cooler.. allowing u to kill aliens and reduce cheapness
<!--QuoteBegin--Drizzt+Nov 27 2002, 09:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Drizzt @ Nov 27 2002, 09:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cone on, everybody, get off it. The aliens get the defense chambers, countless offense chambers, and the Onos. The best thing the Frontiersmen get is the Siege Cannon! It doesn't attack units, except for splash damage, which is easily avoided, and it doesn't even take chambers down quickly! It usually takes a whole minute to take down a chamber. Don't think that that's very long? Try holding your breath. START NOW!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> "Cone on" - alright! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
On a more serious note; The seige is balanced. Yes, it is annoying, yes it can f**k you up.
(following comments not directed @ drizzt)
It's also expensive. See following analysis (in sensible build order) for a seige base in 1.03 with a reasonable chance of surviving against a competent alien team..
1 hive = 80 8 def towers = 14x8 = 112 16 off towers = 14x16 = 224 3 fades = 44x3 = 132 1 lerk = 33 countless skulks = essentially free. TOTAL: 581. (if 6 fades + 2 lerks = 746... do you think you can't take down anything with 6 fades & 2 lerks? think again.)
PLUS, you're getting all the benefits of a hive, it's only purpose isn't to destroy something.
Which would you prefer? It's very difficult to setup a successful seige base. You can only do it if the aliens don't know what they're doing, or if you've got very effective marines and lots of RP. The trick is to setup the base QUICKLY, all at once, and complete all of the seiges at once. (almost finish all of them). That gives you lead time on the alien response.
Of course, if they've got onos, you're even more screwed.
Morale of the story. Seiges aren't unbalanced. Think before you complain about balance. Balance is usually directly related to good tactics and good player skill. NS itself is quite balanced. Don't try to influence it to become easier. A hard game is a good game. The most satisfying games are where you only just won by the skin on your teeth.
Ah, but you may not need to give those marines so much if they can instantly come through the phasegate and have that many turrets.
Lastly, marines can pretty much build wherever the heck the want, with the exception of spawn portals. The aliens have three distinct places to put a hive, and the marines practically know in advance where it will be, given the possibilities.
Whereas a siege base can be through three walls around five corners and can be set up by a single marine who starts with a 20rp phasegate.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also what about xenocide? 800 dammage to marine structures and that's WITHOUT upgrading ANYTHING. Combined with bile bomb it can tear through a marine base just as fast as a seige can take out alien base.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
xenocide and bile bomb aren't working properly right now..
I agree that sieges are a little cheap. I am usualy aliens and sometimes I go as gorg. One time, I saved my alien bretheren by building a hive(we were overrun). It worked, I got the whole alien team back and I built defenses like there was no tommorrow! Suddenly I hear "The hive is dying." I ran back to my hive only to see the remains of my base be totaly obliterated in a very cool, dramatic "everything blow up at once" kind of thing. It was pretty cool, besides the fact that the base i raised as if it was my own, was well... razed.
Sieges should be towned down in some way, I agree with the idea of a marine controling the cannon. It would really help things a lot.
What i suggest though, hehe this is cool, is that the marine controlining the siege could obviously see through walls, is that the marine will also have the ability to shoot aliens. Of course this is quite unfair so as micronesia said, the marine should have to reload the cannon.
This i think will be a very unique form of play. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hmmm...Maybe it would be a pain to program, but maybe set it up so that sieges can only fire on buildings they OR A MARINE have line-of-sight to (within a radius, obviously)...
This would allow the sieges to still be effective at building destroying "around the corner", but give the kharaa a chance to take out something other than the heavily defended siege base (IE, the spotting marines.)
It would also eliminate the boredom-factor of sitting around at a siege-base and waiting for something to come attack it as it automatically but slowly decimates the aliens fortifications.
<!--QuoteBegin--biodecay+Dec 4 2002, 09:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (biodecay @ Dec 4 2002, 09:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> TOTAL SEIGE BASE COST: 640 RP. (redundant TF / phase +50, medpacks + 10-40, 3 more marines + 333)
VERY expensive.
[...] TOTAL: 581. (if 6 fades + 2 lerks = 746... do you think you can't take down anything with 6 fades & 2 lerks? think again.)
PLUS, you're getting all the benefits of a hive, it's only purpose isn't to destroy something.[/b]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO that is an extravagantly costly siege base. Eight sentries, <b>six</b> sieges? A little much... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I think an effective siege base can be made for much less. Plus a redundant phase would probably be more of a burden than a help.
I also don't quite see the purpose of comparing a siege base to a well defended hive + inhabitants?... That's a little on the apples-to-oranges side of things I think. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
My siege bases usually look like this: 1 advanced TF (25 + 35), 1 phase gate (20), two sieges (25 * 2), four sentries at the most (19 * 4). That's 206 RP on the outside.
*I'm not including the cost of HA/HMG marines for a couple of reasons: first, an effective siege base can be built without them, and second, marines can be used to do much more than guard a base. After the base has outlived its usefulness, they can still fight, defend other areas, etc.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b> NS itself is quite balanced. Don't try to influence it to become easier. A hard game is a good game. The most satisfying games are where you only just won by the skin on your teeth. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Bottom line...Its a hunt hutn game. Not a defend-hunt.
Dont expect skulks/aliens to sit at the base to defend.
Aliens turrets are vastly outnumber in the way they are w/ the current HP's
It takes close to 3 or 4 mins w/ one skulk to take out a TF/Turrets...while it takes a HMG marine close to a min to take out 5 Off's and 3 Def's.
You cant expect aliens to sit at the hive teh whoe time to preotect. It might as well be 12 on 8 then. No way you can still even compare the aliens vs marine. basis whise. Ya skulks can climb on walla dn hide and blah blah blah. Still.....Marines have the range advange. Only way you can get by is if you get close to bite.
So dont **obscenity** about aliens being able to 'not know where marines' are and bulding outside their base, wehne we're constantly trying to halt their expansion of mini bases and turrets. Marines can easily bunny hop past our Off chambers with out takin any damage...If your a skulk...even w/ celerity...You atleast gonna take a -15 pt hit from a Turret if your running past a mini base.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Aliens turrets are vastly outnumber in the way they are w/ the current HP's
It takes close to 3 or 4 mins w/ one skulk to take out a TF/Turrets...while it takes a HMG marine close to a min to take out 5 Off's and 3 Def's.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, the Skulk costs at most 6 RPs...while the HMG itself is 27, plus medkits or HA/welding to keep the marine alive as he takes fire from 5 OCs at once. A better comparison would be Lerks with umbra against turret farms, vs HA/HMG against a wall of lame. In that situation I think the aliens might actually come out on top (though maybe not if the marine uses a grenade launcher instead).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>If your a skulk...even w/ celerity...You atleast gonna take a -15 pt hit from a Turret if your running past a mini base.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Psst- Leap. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Discobird+Dec 4 2002, 03:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Discobird @ Dec 4 2002, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Aliens turrets are vastly outnumber in the way they are w/ the current HP's
It takes close to 3 or 4 mins w/ one skulk to take out a TF/Turrets...while it takes a HMG marine close to a min to take out 5 Off's and 3 Def's.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, the Skulk costs at most 6 RPs...while the HMG itself is 27, plus medkits or HA/welding to keep the marine alive as he takes fire from 5 OCs at once. A better comparison would be Lerks with umbra against turret farms, vs HA/HMG against a wall of lame. In that situation I think the aliens might actually come out on top (though maybe not if the marine uses a grenade launcher instead).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>If your a skulk...even w/ celerity...You atleast gonna take a -15 pt hit from a Turret if your running past a mini base.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Psst- Leap. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can just as easily duck behind a corner and fire HMG at wall of lame and reload
If you havent done this and beat it within 30 seconds.....you obviously were diong somethign wrong
It takes no time at all to take down 4 offs and 4 def's w/ HMG
There is still no comparision between hmg and the skulk
<!--QuoteBegin--PrOzAk+Dec 4 2002, 01:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PrOzAk @ Dec 4 2002, 01:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is still no comparision between hmg and the skulk<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That was my point. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
It's always "Well Aliens have Fades with Bile Bomb!". Isn't the frickin' Grenade Launcher more like the Bile Bomb than anything else ANYWAY? The Siege Turret is just thrown in there for kicks.
As for Marines NEEDING the Siege to win...that'd probably be because the armour on Aliens is bugged all to hell and it takes twice as many shots to kill a beCarapaced Fade as it rightly should. Never mind the fact Skulks go from 10 normal-LMG shots to kill to <b>TWENTY-ONE</b> once they have Carapace 3. That extra 20 armour goes a mighty long way.
If Aliens have structures outside the base, you cant move, and when you have a guy using the GL, by that time there are fades, which also means that you are under constant attack, and the kiddies with GL cant spare time for building erradication. This also means you have no resource towers because your way out is dead. But thats okay right? NO!
Aliens are the masters of hit and run, without sieges they would be unstopable, simple as that. And as for offense turrets, you'd be suprised how powerful they are, as a HA marine its hard to take out 3 by the time they kill you.
The issue that needs to be adressed here is not whether or not to take it away, but to fix it's existing bugs (click on TF to upgrade, cant because of bug, and no sieges) It's bugs like that that let Aliens win (I won it for aliens once, built a bunch of offense turrets in eclipse command and killed off the base.).
Siege Cannon: St00pid uber-n00b commander play-thing -> Gorges "Wall of Lame" (2 Offensive Turrets backed up by 1 Defense Chamber): ditto
I'll put up more later but I've got to go shoot someone now (damn terrorists! why must you p*ss off the President and get me shot at!).
you need 3 hives for Onos, (3 hives for xenocide and bileboms also) when all you need to build the most powerful weapon in game is a turretfactory and the siege itself.
Thats 25+25(for the upgrade)+15 res.
Lets see
second hive (80 res) + third hive (80 res)... And thats just to be able to use xenocide. If you want to be onos it will cost another 70 res.
Siege: 65res
3rd hive skills: 160res
And how often do you even have 3 hives because of siege?
Compair getting a turret factory and a siege up against getting 3 hives.....
3rd hive skills only comes late in the games when a siege can be builded very fast and early in the game.
"Cone on" - alright! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
On a more serious note; The seige is balanced. Yes, it is annoying, yes it can f**k you up.
(following comments not directed @ drizzt)
It's also expensive. See following analysis (in sensible build order) for a seige base in 1.03 with a reasonable chance of surviving against a competent alien team..
3 marines = 3rp. (+HA/HMG/weld = 25x3+25x3+10x3 = 333)
1 Phase gate = 20
1 TF, upgraded = 25 + 35 = 60
5 sentries = 19x5 = 95
3 seiges = 25x3 = 75
3 more sentries = 19x3 = 57
TOTAL SEIGE BASE COST: 640 RP. (redundant TF / phase +50, medpacks + 10-40, 3 more marines + 333)
VERY expensive.
1 hive = 80
8 def towers = 14x8 = 112
16 off towers = 14x16 = 224
3 fades = 44x3 = 132
1 lerk = 33
countless skulks = essentially free.
TOTAL: 581. (if 6 fades + 2 lerks = 746... do you think you can't take down anything with 6 fades & 2 lerks? think again.)
PLUS, you're getting all the benefits of a hive, it's only purpose isn't to destroy something.
Which would you prefer? It's very difficult to setup a successful seige base. You can only do it if the aliens don't know what they're doing, or if you've got very effective marines and lots of RP. The trick is to setup the base QUICKLY, all at once, and complete all of the seiges at once. (almost finish all of them). That gives you lead time on the alien response.
Of course, if they've got onos, you're even more screwed.
Morale of the story. Seiges aren't unbalanced. Think before you complain about balance. Balance is usually directly related to good tactics and good player skill. NS itself is quite balanced. Don't try to influence it to become easier. A hard game is a good game. The most satisfying games are where you only just won by the skin on your teeth.
Yup. I type a lot. =)
Lastly, marines can pretty much build wherever the heck the want, with the exception of spawn portals. The aliens have three distinct places to put a hive, and the marines practically know in advance where it will be, given the possibilities.
Whereas a siege base can be through three walls around five corners and can be set up by a single marine who starts with a 20rp phasegate.
xenocide and bile bomb aren't working properly right now..
Sieges should be towned down in some way, I agree with the idea of a marine controling the cannon. It would really help things a lot.
What i suggest though, hehe this is cool, is that the marine controlining the siege could obviously see through walls, is that the marine will also have the ability to shoot aliens. Of course this is quite unfair so as micronesia said, the marine should have to reload the cannon.
This i think will be a very unique form of play.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
something like that.
Just day dreaming. lol
This would allow the sieges to still be effective at building destroying "around the corner", but give the kharaa a chance to take out something other than the heavily defended siege base (IE, the spotting marines.)
It would also eliminate the boredom-factor of sitting around at a siege-base and waiting for something to come attack it as it automatically but slowly decimates the aliens fortifications.
TOTAL SEIGE BASE COST: 640 RP. (redundant TF / phase +50, medpacks + 10-40, 3 more marines + 333)
VERY expensive.
[...]
TOTAL: 581. (if 6 fades + 2 lerks = 746... do you think you can't take down anything with 6 fades & 2 lerks? think again.)
PLUS, you're getting all the benefits of a hive, it's only purpose isn't to destroy something.[/b]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO that is an extravagantly costly siege base. Eight sentries, <b>six</b> sieges? A little much... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I think an effective siege base can be made for much less. Plus a redundant phase would probably be more of a burden than a help.
I also don't quite see the purpose of comparing a siege base to a well defended hive + inhabitants?... That's a little on the apples-to-oranges side of things I think. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
My siege bases usually look like this:
1 advanced TF (25 + 35), 1 phase gate (20), two sieges (25 * 2), four sentries at the most (19 * 4). That's 206 RP on the outside.
*I'm not including the cost of HA/HMG marines for a couple of reasons: first, an effective siege base can be built without them, and second, marines can be used to do much more than guard a base. After the base has outlived its usefulness, they can still fight, defend other areas, etc.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b> NS itself is quite balanced. Don't try to influence it to become easier. A hard game is a good game. The most satisfying games are where you only just won by the skin on your teeth.
</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Bottom line...Its a hunt hutn game. Not a defend-hunt.
Dont expect skulks/aliens to sit at the base to defend.
Aliens turrets are vastly outnumber in the way they are w/ the current HP's
It takes close to 3 or 4 mins w/ one skulk to take out a TF/Turrets...while it takes a HMG marine close to a min to take out 5 Off's and 3 Def's.
You cant expect aliens to sit at the hive teh whoe time to preotect. It might as well be 12 on 8 then. No way you can still even compare the aliens vs marine. basis whise. Ya skulks can climb on walla dn hide and blah blah blah. Still.....Marines have the range advange. Only way you can get by is if you get close to bite.
So dont **obscenity** about aliens being able to 'not know where marines' are and bulding outside their base, wehne we're constantly trying to halt their expansion of mini bases and turrets. Marines can easily bunny hop past our Off chambers with out takin any damage...If your a skulk...even w/ celerity...You atleast gonna take a -15 pt hit from a Turret if your running past a mini base.
PrOZzAkakak
It takes close to 3 or 4 mins w/ one skulk to take out a TF/Turrets...while it takes a HMG marine close to a min to take out 5 Off's and 3 Def's.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the Skulk costs at most 6 RPs...while the HMG itself is 27, plus medkits or HA/welding to keep the marine alive as he takes fire from 5 OCs at once. A better comparison would be Lerks with umbra against turret farms, vs HA/HMG against a wall of lame. In that situation I think the aliens might actually come out on top (though maybe not if the marine uses a grenade launcher instead).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>If your a skulk...even w/ celerity...You atleast gonna take a -15 pt hit from a Turret if your running past a mini base.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Psst- Leap. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It takes close to 3 or 4 mins w/ one skulk to take out a TF/Turrets...while it takes a HMG marine close to a min to take out 5 Off's and 3 Def's.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the Skulk costs at most 6 RPs...while the HMG itself is 27, plus medkits or HA/welding to keep the marine alive as he takes fire from 5 OCs at once. A better comparison would be Lerks with umbra against turret farms, vs HA/HMG against a wall of lame. In that situation I think the aliens might actually come out on top (though maybe not if the marine uses a grenade launcher instead).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>If your a skulk...even w/ celerity...You atleast gonna take a -15 pt hit from a Turret if your running past a mini base.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Psst- Leap. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can just as easily duck behind a corner and fire HMG at wall of lame and reload
If you havent done this and beat it within 30 seconds.....you obviously were diong somethign wrong
It takes no time at all to take down 4 offs and 4 def's w/ HMG
There is still no comparision between hmg and the skulk
That was my point. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->