As for the next engine to use for NS, I'd go with whatever engine is easiest to Mod and has the most features required to make a good NS map/game. The more technical the engine, the longer it will take to convert. That's what I love about the old HL engine is that its easy to Mod and there is so much documentation on it. It may not look as good as what Doom3 will be, but it gets the job done. We need an engine that has the right kind of options graphically without taking forever to make and netcode-wise for online use.
So far, Doom3 may be too much to work with, but it would definately work. UT2k3 could also work. SS could work too, but the SS engines strength is in open places with lots of enemies on the screen...which isn't really NS to me. Same deal using the Tribes2 engine. I'd definately say the HL2 engine, but who knows when that will come out. By that point, you might as well have done another engine and you would be finished making NS for it.
<!--QuoteBegin--GobyWan+Dec 2 2002, 11:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GobyWan @ Dec 2 2002, 11:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NS in large, expansive outdoor settings has already been given a big gigantic NO by Flayra, simply because of the game mechanics. \ There's no way a skulk could be effective in an open field, because it needs the walls and ceiling to move and attack properly, as well as corners and places to hide. Ditto for gorge, any buildings made in a field would simply be picked off from afar by the marines' longrange weapons. Lerks would be easy to see and unable to hide in rafters or around corners. Fades would be effective using blink and acid rocket, but bilebomb hasn't got the range to use in the open. Onos would just get showered with firepower and die halfway down the field.
One of the integral parts of the game balance is the aliens' ability to use the terrain to their advantage, most especially the vents and the roof. Without that "home turf" advantage, the aliens are easy to take down and the game is unbalanced. It also ruins the claustrophobic and creepy atmosphere.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually that's not quite true. My current map, Ns_assault, has a large amount of 'outdoors'
Preliminary playtesting seems ok so far. I haven't tired the Fade's blink - would be VERY interesting to see if you could blink all the way across the landing field to the dropship in a single instant.
Lerks tend to get up to great speeds and smack into the worldspawn. Skulks do ok, there's plenty of cover out there. As someone said before - 'outdoor maps don't mean football fields'
Yes, Onos get picked off. Onos are very effective indoors, and not so much outdoors. That would mean simply... using the onos indoors and fade/lerk outdoors. s'called 'tactics'
>It also ruins the claustrophobic and creepy atmosphere.
Meh. Play doom3 for creepy and claustrophobic <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Jacturus+Dec 3 2002, 01:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jacturus @ Dec 3 2002, 01:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the next engine to use for NS, I'd go with whatever engine is easiest to Mod and has the most features required to make a good NS map/game. The more technical the engine, the longer it will take to convert. That's what I love about the old HL engine is that its easy to Mod and there is so much documentation on it. It may not look as good as what Doom3 will be, but it gets the job done. We need an engine that has the right kind of options graphically without taking forever to make and netcode-wise for online use.
So far, Doom3 may be too much to work with, but it would definately work. UT2k3 could also work. SS could work too, but the SS engines strength is in open places with lots of enemies on the screen...which isn't really NS to me. Same deal using the Tribes2 engine. I'd definately say the HL2 engine, but who knows when that will come out. By that point, you might as well have done another engine and you would be finished making NS for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have to agree on all of these points.
Just that it annoys me that the main limiting factor in how good NS can be is the engine.
Maps can't draw anything approaching a modern amount of polys, which is why all the pipes are octagonal and at 45 degrees.
I would venture to say that Doom3 will be as easy to mod as any of the Quake series - why wouldn't it be? And there's plenty of good mods for Q3. Dont cite counterstrike as being the great example of how good the HL engine is to mod - that got started before Q3 was released.
<!--QuoteBegin--ShingyBoy+Dec 3 2002, 01:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShingyBoy @ Dec 3 2002, 01:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Someone tell me this is only a question but wot is SS?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is only a question.
(SS = Serious Sam, by CroTeam, running on the Serious Engine, capable of outdoor areas of immense size and more aliens at once than you could shake a stick at)
<!--QuoteBegin--Jacturus+Dec 3 2002, 01:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jacturus @ Dec 3 2002, 01:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So far, Doom3 may be too much to work with, but it would definately work. UT2k3 could also work. SS could work too, but the SS engines strength is in open places with lots of enemies on the screen...which isn't really NS to me. Same deal using the Tribes2 engine. I'd definately say the HL2 engine, but who knows when that will come out. By that point, you might as well have done another engine and you would be finished making NS for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Erm, hate to break your bubble but neither the Serious engine or Torque are limited in any capacity on having a large number of enemies indoors.
I recall quite a few locations in Serious Sam where there are literally dozens of baddies coming at the player from all directions.
Tribes 2 has one assault map which has one huge underground complex and all of the fighting is done inside. I've played that map on a 32/32 server with no problems at all.
This is not an either or situation. Just because they are capable of outdoor scenes does not preclude them from exceeding the souped up Q1 engine that is called HL on the indoors. Hell, you're saying that UTC2k could work and on of the highlights of that engine is its excellent handling of <i>outdoor</i> battles!
I think the Quake III engine would be a great candidate for a conversion, as the Quake III engine is very capable, fairly modern and much more flexible than the HL engine. But, although Quake III has a pretty large fanbase, it is dwarved when compared to the HL fanbase. Simply put, NS wouldn't enjoy a huge popularity on any non-HL engine. It's a shame really.
Wait isint doom3 aliens/zombie thingies vs marines or 1 marine... ns is aliens vs marines. So the point of making the mod for doom3 would be like adding tfc type classes, resourses and you can build stuff? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
How fast is your computer dj? And do you have anything like geforce tweak?
<!--QuoteBegin--DjArcas+Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DjArcas @ Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->>But when ID is finished with D3, TF2 should be out or nearly comlete. They have released info that TF2 has DX9 support.
More unofficial rumours? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, learn how to use the Quote thingy.
Second, yup its unofficial rumors, no argue there. But you might wanna read over here:
Sure its just rumors, but they have to come frome some place.....
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<!--QuoteBegin--DjArcas+Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DjArcas @ Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->>And whats this about running D3 on a GF1 !?!?! Yeah right, but you forgot too add the texture or >something then becuase thoose that have ran it on a Radeon 9700 Pro only get 40-60 FPS at >1024x768 (I think, not exactly sure but something like that).
No, you AREN'T exactly sure, are you? You know WHY you aren't? Because you don't know what you're talking about.
I have run it, I have seen it. The game is more CPU bound than render-bound, simply because it does a huge amount of work in software. My housemate runs it on his Radeon 8500 for minimal speed increase - it's processor bound. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
About the fps in D3, your the only one in the world thats getting good fps with such an old card. <a href='http://slashdot.org/articles/02/11/03/1520240.shtml?tid=127' target='_blank'>http://slashdot.org/articles/02/11/03/1520...0.shtml?tid=127</a> People with P4's 2.4GHz n GF4's, Radeon 8500 etc are only getting like 20-25fps.
You must have a Card thats been blessed by God or something to run at higher fps's.
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<!--QuoteBegin--DjArcas+Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DjArcas @ Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->>Nope, if you NS guy's are going to convert, do it to the TF2 engine or wait for HL2. The TF2 engine will probobly have extremly good network code.
Tf2 engine? ROFL, you mean the Q2 engine again, yes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you dont think that you could inprove an engine that is old?? Take a look at the new James Bond game, Nightfire. Its based on the HL engine! Gearbox started with the HL engine and added some Q3A code into it. But the Base is HL. SOOOO Valve could have done the same thing with TF2.
And HL engine is based on the Q1 engine with parts of the Q2 code. Valve likes mixing the Engines. <span style='color:red'>EDIT: <a href='http://www.idsoftware.com/business/home/technology/techlicense.php' target='_blank'>http://www.idsoftware.com/business/home/te...techlicense.php</a> - Scroll down to C and read. </span>
greydmiyu - As I said, SS and Tribes2 strengths come from the large, open areas. SS especially with multiple enemies, which is not something really needed in NS. I didn't say they both couldn't do it, I'm just saying the engines were made specifically with large areas in mind. That is the only reason I don't think they should be used. However I still think it could be done. I love SS and I'm sure you can make some nice indoor levels, but I'm looking at the main strengths and weaknesses of the engines. What makes one engine different from the others...What does that engine do better than the others and does that fit with NS?
Damn, I didn't even think of the Q3 engine...That wouldn't be too bad. Still requires a lot of time to make some great stuff, but you could say that with any engine put out in the last few years. Quite a few games made with the Q3 engine.
If there is one thing I know, is that picking the right engine to Mod NS into is quite a hard thing to do! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Deltron Z+Dec 3 2002, 03:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deltron Z @ Dec 3 2002, 03:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It would be nice to have a game with 32-64 players on NS. Maps would have to be bigger, but it would be fun as hell. Imagine 20 skulks rushing a base.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Deltron Z, it's bad enough as a marine to fight off 3 skulks, let alone 20 to 30!! It'd be a scene right out of "Aliens" the movie! Man, that just gives me the creeps thinking about it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NS in large, expansive outdoor settings has already been given a big gigantic NO by Flayra, simply because of the game mechanics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
GobyWan, I agree with most of what you said for the existing NS. But a conversion, or knock off with new aliens, and marines and RTS would be awesome, I remember drooling over "Halo" before the whole thing got bought and ported to xbox. Well if someone could pull off something similar to NS with large outdoor areas and vehicles and gloomy interiors including great real time strategy system, I think they could outdo whatever Halo has when it comes out for PC.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jacturus+Dec 3 2002, 03:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jacturus @ Dec 3 2002, 03:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->greydmiyu - As I said, SS and Tribes2 strengths come from the large, open areas.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *sigh* From the Torque features list:
Terrain Engine
Continuous, seemless, LOD mesh generation (using screen error metrics) Aggregated tile mip-mapping Light mapped for hill and building shadows Dynamically generated blend tiles Altitude based fog banks Seemless integration with the interior engine
Interior/Building Engine
Portal based interiors Seemless integration with the terrain engine Detail brushes Animated lightmaps Buildings can be instanced, placed, manipulated and yes, scaled, with the mission editor WorldCraft converter
I see nothing there which said it was specifically designed with exteriors in mind. Furthermore I point out that from my experience in a game based on the engine it can do interiors just fine. Again I remind you that you have said that UTC2k might work even though one of its features is exterior and interior engines. No different than Torque, no different than Serious.
Besides anyone who says "NO" to exteriors needs to rethink that position. I'd say no to an exterior only level but let's think of something inspired by Starship Troopers where the aliens were underground and the marines were above ground so that <i>some</i> of the level would be exterior is entirely plausible and keeping with the theme. There's also the slight matter of all of Aliens. External and internal abounds.
Anyway, be that as it may I'd please ask that you inform yourself on the choice rather than simply dismissing them out of hand base solely on your false preconceptions.
Didnt an outside company just patch Tribes 2 recently so the netcode was improved quite a bit, I for 1 bought it the day it came out but didnt keep it after 2 weeks of bad net lag. I have heard some people are going to re-review it, CGW or Computer games. I liked the game and all its features just the netcode bit at the time. Has anyone noticed improvements?
If you did it completly the same as ns i can see where u need some permision but if you have a doom3 engine im sure you have alot more freedom to do it prolly better. NS isint the first aliens vs marines game by far and isint the first 1st person shooter and real time strategy hybrid either. So if you thats what you mean by making a mod for doom3 im pretty sure there isint a reason you cant.
greydmiyu - I stand corrected then...I was basically going on what the creators were doing with the engine and not with what else the engine could do. I mean, why make an engine that can handle multiple enemies on the screen at once and not make the game work best with open levels to show off that kind of feature...or even large indoor levels? I thought that the game makers would build in the features that make what they want to do work best with the engine. I'm just looking at a huge list of possible engines and seeing what's been done already to get an idea. I never dismissed any one of the gaming engines I listed, I just thought they might not work as well as others for one reason or another. As you seem to have researched some of the gaming engines, which would you choose, given the choice?
(If you've already answered this, then I apologies for not remembering what you posted.)
SS engine would be good. Who says you have to make large outdoor enviroments with it? This power is, of course, the ton of enemies on-screen at once. But that would also apply to things like turrets and chambers. Your turret farms or walls of lame wouldnt slow you down nearly as much. The maps could be the same as they are now, if needed.
And Torque...same thing. The upside to buying the Torque licence would be: access to the entire source, and not just the mod code. Good netcode (I played a few 90-player games of Tribes 2). You dont have to use the terrain porion of the engine at all. The buildings are even built in Worldcraft! Current mappers would have no trouble moving over. The big thing I think with moving to that engine is, once its done, the NS team can do what they want with it. They could give it away for free as a stand-alone game.
But thats all talk. It doesnt matter to me where NS gets ported to, if it even gets ported at all. If it does, great, I'll be sure to follow. If not, I'll be happy with what we have now.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jacturus+Dec 3 2002, 03:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jacturus @ Dec 3 2002, 03:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As you seem to have researched some of the gaming engines, which would you choose, given the choice?
(If you've already answered this, then I apologies for not remembering what you posted.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, not in this thread no.
Given my drothers it would be none. Let's face facts, NS has been out a little over a month. It was, what, a year and a half in the making? While I'm sure a lot of us can see the positives in different engines what we have to ask is, "Is it worth another year and a half to port to something." Also one has to keep that timeframe in mind when chosing an engine. Yeah, lots of people are ragging about the frames on this engine or that engine on the average hardware of today but if the game were ported it wouldn't be played on the hardware of today. I dunno about you but my PIII-667 ain't going to be here a year and a half from now and if my rate of purchases on video cards holds constant neither will my GeForce3. So while any of the engines mentioned might be slow on my hardware now it may not be on the hardware I'd have in the future.
Be that as it may let's get back to the point at hand. It's been out a month. Thinking about porting is pure folly. It simply isn't a viable topic of discussion until such time as a <b>major</b> overhaul is on the horizon where the amount of work would rival that of starting on another engine from scratch. Until then it'll be on Half-Life and that's that.
Furthermore just as discussing an engine at this time is folly so is having some vapid slogans about loyalty to one engine or another. Yeah, Valve did quite well with Half-Life but we've not seen much out of them in, erm... 4+ years? Little tweaks here and there to be sure but vapor otherwise. Honestly I'm surprised they're still in business because I cannot fathom where their revenue is coming from. Who's to say that any engine they come out with in the future is the best choice (remember the development time) compared to any other engine that is out there? There are a slew of FPS engines and if any overhaul is going to be undertaken all of them should be considered for what changes in the game required a move from the Half-Life engine in the first place. Who knows, it may not be addressed in whatever the next incarnation from Valve will be.
imo , if u done a game very like NS without asking the div team it wouldnt be very fair to any1 involved in making NS, and if they didnt want you to then making on very like it would be stealing there ideas <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->.
but if u had the blessing then i say the UT engin would be kewl , reason i hear u ask? /me hears nothing ... cause its on of the few engins that run very well on my PC cause it sux <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--DjArcas+Dec 4 2002, 09:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DjArcas @ Dec 4 2002, 09:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"NS isint the first aliens vs marines game by far and isint the first 1st person shooter and real time strategy hybrid either."
Isn't it???<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well... No. It is the first aliens vs marine game which is also a blending of FPS and RTS.
Aliens vs. Marines would go to AvP1 prolly.
FPS/RTS would go to a mod on the Q3 engine which put in quite a bit of RTS. I don't recall the name of the mod. I just remember ya started out with a base class, had to run around collecting resources, could create buildings which allowed you to get more classes, upgrade buildings so the classes you had had more powers and so on. That was at least a year ago, maybe longer.
Wait, might have been the UT engine now that I think about it. I've not played many Quake 3 mods other than UT (erm, the other UT) as most are utter shite. Erm, yeah, anyway, there ya go.
<!--QuoteBegin--greydmiyu+Dec 4 2002, 09:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (greydmiyu @ Dec 4 2002, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->FPS/RTS would go to a mod on the Q3 engine which put in quite a bit of RTS. I don't recall the name of the mod. I just remember ya started out with a base class, had to run around collecting resources, could create buildings which allowed you to get more classes, upgrade buildings so the classes you had had more powers and so on. That was at least a year ago, maybe longer. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Was there someone controlling the game from an FPS perspective, tho?
Without it, it's not much more than a fancy TFC building sentry guns sort of thing...
Comments
So far, Doom3 may be too much to work with, but it would definately work. UT2k3 could also work. SS could work too, but the SS engines strength is in open places with lots of enemies on the screen...which isn't really NS to me. Same deal using the Tribes2 engine. I'd definately say the HL2 engine, but who knows when that will come out. By that point, you might as well have done another engine and you would be finished making NS for it.
\
There's no way a skulk could be effective in an open field, because it needs the walls and ceiling to move and attack properly, as well as corners and places to hide. Ditto for gorge, any buildings made in a field would simply be picked off from afar by the marines' longrange weapons. Lerks would be easy to see and unable to hide in rafters or around corners. Fades would be effective using blink and acid rocket, but bilebomb hasn't got the range to use in the open. Onos would just get showered with firepower and die halfway down the field.
One of the integral parts of the game balance is the aliens' ability to use the terrain to their advantage, most especially the vents and the roof. Without that "home turf" advantage, the aliens are easy to take down and the game is unbalanced. It also ruins the claustrophobic and creepy atmosphere.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually that's not quite true. My current map, Ns_assault, has a large amount of 'outdoors'
Preliminary playtesting seems ok so far. I haven't tired the Fade's blink - would be VERY interesting to see if you could blink all the way across the landing field to the dropship in a single instant.
Lerks tend to get up to great speeds and smack into the worldspawn. Skulks do ok, there's plenty of cover out there. As someone said before - 'outdoor maps don't mean football fields'
Yes, Onos get picked off. Onos are very effective indoors, and not so much outdoors. That would mean simply... using the onos indoors and fade/lerk outdoors. s'called 'tactics'
>It also ruins the claustrophobic and creepy atmosphere.
Meh. Play doom3 for creepy and claustrophobic <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
So far, Doom3 may be too much to work with, but it would definately work. UT2k3 could also work. SS could work too, but the SS engines strength is in open places with lots of enemies on the screen...which isn't really NS to me. Same deal using the Tribes2 engine. I'd definately say the HL2 engine, but who knows when that will come out. By that point, you might as well have done another engine and you would be finished making NS for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to agree on all of these points.
Just that it annoys me that the main limiting factor in how good NS can be is the engine.
Entity limits? Hit them.
Hull Limits? Ducked Marine, Standing Marine, Onos... well, there's your limit.
Maps can't draw anything approaching a modern amount of polys, which is why all the pipes are octagonal and at 45 degrees.
I would venture to say that Doom3 will be as easy to mod as any of the Quake series - why wouldn't it be? And there's plenty of good mods for Q3. Dont cite counterstrike as being the great example of how good the HL engine is to mod - that got started before Q3 was released.
That is only a question.
(SS = Serious Sam, by CroTeam, running on the Serious Engine, capable of outdoor areas of immense size and more aliens at once than you could shake a stick at)
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, it's kinda out, I mean the leaked E3 demo is out... *grins*
Well worth a look, it's *very* impressive.
Erm, hate to break your bubble but neither the Serious engine or Torque are limited in any capacity on having a large number of enemies indoors.
I recall quite a few locations in Serious Sam where there are literally dozens of baddies coming at the player from all directions.
Tribes 2 has one assault map which has one huge underground complex and all of the fighting is done inside. I've played that map on a 32/32 server with no problems at all.
This is not an either or situation. Just because they are capable of outdoor scenes does not preclude them from exceeding the souped up Q1 engine that is called HL on the indoors. Hell, you're saying that UTC2k could work and on of the highlights of that engine is its excellent handling of <i>outdoor</i> battles!
EDIT: Fixed my retarded spelling error. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
ns is aliens vs marines.
So the point of making the mod for doom3 would be like adding tfc type classes, resourses and you can build stuff? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
How fast is your computer dj? And do you have anything like geforce tweak?
More unofficial rumours?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, learn how to use the Quote thingy.
Second, yup its unofficial rumors, no argue there. But you might wanna read over here:
<a href='http://community.sierra.com/WebX?230@163.GwfkbZJIte2.0@.efa8b7f' target='_blank'>http://community.sierra.com/WebX?230@163.G...Ite2.0@.efa8b7f</a>
Sure its just rumors, but they have to come frome some place.....
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<!--QuoteBegin--DjArcas+Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DjArcas @ Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->>And whats this about running D3 on a GF1 !?!?! Yeah right, but you forgot too add the texture or >something then becuase thoose that have ran it on a Radeon 9700 Pro only get 40-60 FPS at >1024x768 (I think, not exactly sure but something like that).
No, you AREN'T exactly sure, are you?
You know WHY you aren't?
Because you don't know what you're talking about.
I have run it, I have seen it. The game is more CPU bound than render-bound, simply because it does a huge amount of work in software. My housemate runs it on his Radeon 8500 for minimal speed increase - it's processor bound.
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About the fps in D3, your the only one in the world thats getting good fps with such an old card.
<a href='http://slashdot.org/articles/02/11/03/1520240.shtml?tid=127' target='_blank'>http://slashdot.org/articles/02/11/03/1520...0.shtml?tid=127</a>
People with P4's 2.4GHz n GF4's, Radeon 8500 etc are only getting like 20-25fps.
You must have a Card thats been blessed by God or something to run at higher fps's.
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<!--QuoteBegin--DjArcas+Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DjArcas @ Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->>Nope, if you NS guy's are going to convert, do it to the TF2 engine or wait for HL2.
The TF2 engine will probobly have extremly good network code.
Tf2 engine? ROFL, you mean the Q2 engine again, yes.
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So you dont think that you could inprove an engine that is old??
Take a look at the new James Bond game, Nightfire. Its based on the HL engine!
Gearbox started with the HL engine and added some Q3A code into it. But the Base is HL.
SOOOO Valve could have done the same thing with TF2.
And HL engine is based on the Q1 engine with parts of the Q2 code.
Valve likes mixing the Engines.
<span style='color:red'>EDIT: <a href='http://www.idsoftware.com/business/home/technology/techlicense.php' target='_blank'>http://www.idsoftware.com/business/home/te...techlicense.php</a> - Scroll down to C and read. </span>
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<!--QuoteBegin--DjArcas+Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DjArcas @ Dec 3 2002, 06:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->>Stay Faithful to Valve !!!
Idiot.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And where in my last post did I say anything bad about you???
Go get some manners.
Damn, I didn't even think of the Q3 engine...That wouldn't be too bad. Still requires a lot of time to make some great stuff, but you could say that with any engine put out in the last few years. Quite a few games made with the Q3 engine.
If there is one thing I know, is that picking the right engine to Mod NS into is quite a hard thing to do! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Deltron Z, it's bad enough as a marine to fight off 3 skulks, let alone 20 to 30!! It'd be a scene right out of "Aliens" the movie! Man, that just gives me the creeps thinking about it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
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NOOOOO!!! GAME OVER, MAN!! GAME OVER!
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GobyWan, I agree with most of what you said for the existing NS. But a conversion, or knock off with new aliens, and marines and RTS would be awesome, I remember drooling over "Halo" before the whole thing got bought and ported to xbox. Well if someone could pull off something similar to NS with large outdoor areas and vehicles and gloomy interiors including great real time strategy system, I think they could outdo whatever Halo has when it comes out for PC.
And DjArcas I look forward to your NS_assault map
*sigh* From the Torque features list:
Terrain Engine
Continuous, seemless, LOD mesh generation (using screen error metrics)
Aggregated tile mip-mapping
Light mapped for hill and building shadows
Dynamically generated blend tiles
Altitude based fog banks
Seemless integration with the interior engine
Interior/Building Engine
Portal based interiors
Seemless integration with the terrain engine
Detail brushes
Animated lightmaps
Buildings can be instanced, placed, manipulated and yes, scaled, with the mission editor
WorldCraft converter
I see nothing there which said it was specifically designed with exteriors in mind. Furthermore I point out that from my experience in a game based on the engine it can do interiors just fine. Again I remind you that you have said that UTC2k might work even though one of its features is exterior and interior engines. No different than Torque, no different than Serious.
Besides anyone who says "NO" to exteriors needs to rethink that position. I'd say no to an exterior only level but let's think of something inspired by Starship Troopers where the aliens were underground and the marines were above ground so that <i>some</i> of the level would be exterior is entirely plausible and keeping with the theme. There's also the slight matter of all of Aliens. External and internal abounds.
Anyway, be that as it may I'd please ask that you inform yourself on the choice rather than simply dismissing them out of hand base solely on your false preconceptions.
If you did it completly the same as ns i can see where u need some permision but if you have a doom3 engine im sure you have alot more freedom to do it prolly better. NS isint the first aliens vs marines game by far and isint the first 1st person shooter and real time strategy hybrid either. So if you thats what you mean by making a mod for doom3 im pretty sure there isint a reason you cant.
(If you've already answered this, then I apologies for not remembering what you posted.)
That is all I have to say on the matter.
And Torque...same thing. The upside to buying the Torque licence would be: access to the entire source, and not just the mod code. Good netcode (I played a few 90-player games of Tribes 2). You dont have to use the terrain porion of the engine at all. The buildings are even built in Worldcraft! Current mappers would have no trouble moving over.
The big thing I think with moving to that engine is, once its done, the NS team can do what they want with it. They could give it away for free as a stand-alone game.
But thats all talk. It doesnt matter to me where NS gets ported to, if it even gets ported at all. If it does, great, I'll be sure to follow. If not, I'll be happy with what we have now.
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Well, not in this thread no.
Given my drothers it would be none. Let's face facts, NS has been out a little over a month. It was, what, a year and a half in the making? While I'm sure a lot of us can see the positives in different engines what we have to ask is, "Is it worth another year and a half to port to something." Also one has to keep that timeframe in mind when chosing an engine. Yeah, lots of people are ragging about the frames on this engine or that engine on the average hardware of today but if the game were ported it wouldn't be played on the hardware of today. I dunno about you but my PIII-667 ain't going to be here a year and a half from now and if my rate of purchases on video cards holds constant neither will my GeForce3. So while any of the engines mentioned might be slow on my hardware now it may not be on the hardware I'd have in the future.
Be that as it may let's get back to the point at hand. It's been out a month. Thinking about porting is pure folly. It simply isn't a viable topic of discussion until such time as a <b>major</b> overhaul is on the horizon where the amount of work would rival that of starting on another engine from scratch. Until then it'll be on Half-Life and that's that.
Furthermore just as discussing an engine at this time is folly so is having some vapid slogans about loyalty to one engine or another. Yeah, Valve did quite well with Half-Life but we've not seen much out of them in, erm... 4+ years? Little tweaks here and there to be sure but vapor otherwise. Honestly I'm surprised they're still in business because I cannot fathom where their revenue is coming from. Who's to say that any engine they come out with in the future is the best choice (remember the development time) compared to any other engine that is out there? There are a slew of FPS engines and if any overhaul is going to be undertaken all of them should be considered for what changes in the game required a move from the Half-Life engine in the first place. Who knows, it may not be addressed in whatever the next incarnation from Valve will be.
but if u had the blessing then i say the UT engin would be kewl , reason i hear u ask?
/me hears nothing
... cause its on of the few engins that run very well on my PC cause it sux <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Isn't it???
Isn't it???<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... No. It is the first aliens vs marine game which is also a blending of FPS and RTS.
Aliens vs. Marines would go to AvP1 prolly.
FPS/RTS would go to a mod on the Q3 engine which put in quite a bit of RTS. I don't recall the name of the mod. I just remember ya started out with a base class, had to run around collecting resources, could create buildings which allowed you to get more classes, upgrade buildings so the classes you had had more powers and so on. That was at least a year ago, maybe longer.
Wait, might have been the UT engine now that I think about it. I've not played many Quake 3 mods other than UT (erm, the other UT) as most are utter shite. Erm, yeah, anyway, there ya go.
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Was there someone controlling the game from an FPS perspective, tho?
Without it, it's not much more than a fancy TFC building sentry guns sort of thing...