Achievements in NS2?
rofldinho
Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68259Members
Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68259Members
Could NS2 benefit from having Left4Dead or Modern Warfare style achievements/accomplishments implemented into the game? Or would it be too mainstream for NS?
I personally think it's something that appeals to a good number of gamers. If you can get achievements like "parasite 5 marines without dying" or "killed a marine with Gorge bile whilst mounted on flying Lerk", it adds some fun to the game when trying to get those achievements for those who like to do things like that, as well as encouraging advanced teamplay. And with NS2 now being on Steam, it would be cool to be able to look at a friend's steam community page to see statistics and achievements as it was with Left4Dead etc.
So will there be achievements in the game?
PS edited as clearly "crazy" achievements are bad, but teamwork encouraging ones are good.
I personally think it's something that appeals to a good number of gamers. If you can get achievements like "parasite 5 marines without dying" or "killed a marine with Gorge bile whilst mounted on flying Lerk", it adds some fun to the game when trying to get those achievements for those who like to do things like that, as well as encouraging advanced teamplay. And with NS2 now being on Steam, it would be cool to be able to look at a friend's steam community page to see statistics and achievements as it was with Left4Dead etc.
So will there be achievements in the game?
PS edited as clearly "crazy" achievements are bad, but teamwork encouraging ones are good.
Comments
Bad idea. :/
"Kill an Onos with a knife."
Do I sense unnecessary ramboing and neglect of teamwork?
I do <u>not</u> think they are a good idea at all for NS2, it just does not fit, in my opionion as I do <u>not</u> think it fits with the entire Half-life series or Counter Strike they just the wrong type of games to do it with.
Of course this would require achievements to be bound to maps, maybe using a md5 hashvalue so "achievementmap_abc" would not be useful.
If not done correctly however they can screw the whole public play by encouraging people to do weird things probably alone which do not help the gameflow at all.
In conclusion, achievements are not bad by definition, it's how they need to be implemented.
If Natural Selection II needs something like that is another question however...
Thank you.
But achievements in games like L4D and TF2 do encourage higher skilled gameplay for example. They encourage you to try skills that you might not even think of, and also encourage you to use alternative weapons in situations where you'd not normally use them (and e.g. die from reloading your primary weapon).
"hey why the F did you die with your hmg"
"err.. I was trying to unlock the knife 3 skulks achievement"
Well there's no knife in NS2 afaik but you get the point. Maybe there's something you might want to encourage such as res capping but they are not cool and I generally don't want anyone to change their behaviour for achievement unlocking above team's objective.
I loved simple ones that fit with gameplay, and acted like an odometer. With MW2- "Sprint 30 miles with (THISPERK)" and "kill -- players with (THISATTACK)".
Simple ones I'd like to see- Fly __ distance, Heal _ teammates, Catch __ enemies in a single web. Cool, simple stuff like that. Fitting names, of course.
Except Achievements have proven to help bolster game sales quite a bit as long as they are done properly and do not promote griefing and rambo tactics as a whole. A few specialized achievements never hurt, and for a company like UWE, creating a few icons and a bit of coding to create achievements will pay dividends 10 fold for their product.
'Kill 10,000,000 Aliens'
Should keep achievement whor... seekers occupied for a little while ;)
Also the leveling system and self stats in MW2 are nice so you know everytime you play that something "goes forward". Might be just me though because I like RPGs and games where you can level up. Maybe it wouldn't fit NS2 at all..
Perhaps it can be implemented depending on the server? Some choose to, some not to? While I love a great game of NS, I also get bored very easily and sometimes, especially when no one I know is on, I'm drunk, bored, it's 4am, or I played too many games in one sitting, I'll start farting around, hide in vents as a marine with a knife, jump in lava, build a tower of chambers, place mines on walls and climb to weird places, etc... yes, while this may not be helpful to the team whatsoever, it's personal enjoyment, and hopefully someone out there is laughing with me.. or at me. either way... it's a game, if you're having fun then it's successful. and with achievements, it'll give some players like me who get bored easily incentive to keep playing. yes, it's unavoidable that people may exploit achievements and either make maps that make it easy or have a friend sign on at 3am on an empty server to knife him as an onos, but these things, much like cheating,i'd like to think... are only a small percentage of people out there. that's a different topic altogether though.
maybe there are smart achievements that CAN be helpful towards your team... like building stuff, welding, healing, parasiting, 'saving' a teammate while their getting attacked, etc. so players like me will STOP farting around, and help out the team.
i agree, it's not for everyone or every server, but your regular old 'pub noob' (that probably includes me) would love to track my progress and achieve various goals, whether that's heal 50,000 hp or knife an onos.
Successfully siege a hive from <enter some location from map X> on <enter map X here>.
Kill 5 marines as fade without dieing on <enter map X here>.
Buy a welder first and weld X armorpoints of a hurt teammate on <enter map X here>.
Gather with 2 skulks and kill 5 marines while being together as a skulk on <enter map X here>.
Successfully block an Onos so it gets killed by you and your teammates.
Defend the resource tower at <enter location from map X> on <enter map X here> while it is under attack.
Go gorge on <enter map X here> and build a resource tower, do not switch back but heal wounded teammates when you spot them, and build a second resource tower later.
Imo, achievements can be a good way to emphazise good style of playing and introduce new players to the game.
Disclaimer: I just came up with these examples, maybe some of them are flawed after deeper thinking, but my initial point should still be valid. :P
Achievements are the BANE of online gaming now, thanks to consoles. I really really could not care less about f***ing achievements.
Sorry my view is so blunt but gaming developers seem to thing this is a good idea when it really is not.
Achievements are the BANE of online gaming now, thanks to consoles. I really really could not care less about f***ing achievements.
Sorry my view is so blunt but gaming developers seem to thing this is a good idea when it really is not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT!
Achievements are the BANE of online gaming now, thanks to consoles. I really really could not care less about f***ing achievements.
Sorry my view is so blunt but gaming developers seem to thing this is a good idea when it really is not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Utter rubbish. How are they the "BANE" of online gaming? Achievements in TF2, L4D and MW do nothing but enhance gameplay and increase the skill of players, as well as giving those who do care about them an added incentive to play the game and enjoy it further. In TF2 for example, one achievement is to get 10 rocket-jump kills, which is a high skill achievement. Players who would normally run around like standard players/newbies on the ground as soldier are now jumping around with skill because they've gone for this achievement, and it's helped them to learn and master what is a more difficult skill that they probably wouldn't have attempted. Similarly, in all games, achievements encourage you to learn and utilise different weapons, but not to the extent that you use nothing but that weapon.
What really pisses me off about posts like yours are that it's not enough to just say "meh, I don't really like them or care for them". No. You HAVE to act as though it's the end of the world. "ZOMG ACHIEVEMENTS ARE EVILLLLLL" when all you've said is that you just don't like them because it's not what you're after in games. So effectively, just because you don't like something, you go all dramatic to encourage the chances for those who do like it to then miss out.
In what way would good, well engineered achievements devalue the game? The only thing I can think of is that achievement hunters (and I'm not one of them in all honesty, I also don't care one bit about achievements, but I have friends who do because they enjoy going for them) will no longer play the game once they get all the achievements. But the truth is that without those achievements, they'd probably not even purchase the game, or if they did, would get bored of it because other serious games also have achievements now as standard.
Based on feedback on this thread, I really hope UWE ignore the "pursists" (communists would be more descriptive) on here who only want what they like and nothing else. Achievements are standard in good games these days, if they're well thought out it can have zero impact on teamplay and can in fact only encourage it.
O wait we get to buy a gun with personal res... YES every round will start as shotgun rush for me! lol.
[...]I really hope UWE ignore the "pursists" (communists would be more descriptive) [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you for real?
Maybe you should calm down a bit and then write something. Just a friendly protip.
What would be a "well engineered" achievement in your opinion?
Maybe you should calm down a bit and then write something. Just a friendly protip.
What would be a "well engineered" achievement in your opinion?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's been quite a few listed already such as "Heal x amount of team health as a Gorge".
Milestone achievements that promote skilled play and team play are fantastic additions to the game.
<a href='index.php?showtopic=104013'>Achievements in NS2</a>
<a href='index.php?showtopic=108580'>Achievements</a>
And I am sure there are more.
Personally, I would prefer no achievements in NS2, but I don't mind that much. As long as I have the option of not caring one bit about them.
Why do you think Blizzard has started to add achievements to Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, WoW, under a linked profile?
UWE will most likely include achievements because it will help them grow their game. Whining about it is simply arguing against a company who wants to grow and disrespecting a marketing plan that is built to work.
If you don't care about achievements, thats cool. But UWE is smart enough not to make achievements that promote bad play, so have a bit of faith. What they will do is create lasting moments of accomplishment that achievements bring and unite people with that.
I swear, the PC elitism in this topic is unbelievable. Part of the reason console games dominate the PC market in every way is little things like this, and you're just being elitist arguing it.
Want proof? Valve and Blizzard use achievements. The two most successful gaming developers in the industry. You are not right if you disagree, this is simple fact proven by the above.
Ok so you think counter strike would also benefit also from an Achievement system? If im going to play a game once ive purchased it I will want to try and get good at it, the game should be all about content and strive to get players to work together (basing this on a team game ofc) using the game itself not some achievement list. Using an Achievement list to suggest players that doing something will get a reward for doing that certain thing, however that reward should be within the game itself not this listed achievement. for example setting a tank on fire in L4D, this is a good idea because the tank will die no matter what now. However the player doing this needs the Achievement and will now do anything to get it because he/she must have this achievement because it is oh so improtant. So this player (not caring for his team mates around him/her) proceeds to set the tank on fire with a molitov or gas can but has done it so there is not escape for the rest of his/hers teammates because the player has just cut off their only exit. Achievements only popped up once consoles started doing it now every game dev out there must jump on the bangwagon to enhance their game.
It made me sick when I was looking forward to MW2, while watching a video where the dev was plugging the game he rattled on about how the new ahcievements were going to be awesome("just trust us" was my favourite comment) and didnt really want to talk about much else. They (game devs) seem to think an achievement system is a means to an end, but its not. Who wants to buy a god awful half finished game for (depending on the platform) 30 to 60 pounds BUT wait guys it comes with an achievement list because we couldnt be arsed to improve how the game plays or add more content, But we will add more half assed content when the DLC comes out which you will have to pay more money for!
I will admit I dont like consoles now that PC gaming is being slowly turned into the same thing. First achievements and DLC, we are also seeing lack of dedicated servers and after release support for games that should still attract a pc gamer to them that are months old but we are slowly seeing this in newer releases of different games. Again the lack of mod support for game titles that are being released is killing off possible future talented game artists and designers. What im trying to say is Game Developers and Publishers (the big ones anyway) have "forgotten the face of their farthers" (10 points to anyone who can name the quote).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What really pisses me off about posts like yours are that it's not enough to just say "meh, I don't really like them or care for them". No. You HAVE to act as though it's the end of the world. "ZOMG ACHIEVEMENTS ARE EVILLLLLL" when all you've said is that you just don't like them because it's not what you're after in games. So effectively, just because you don't like something, you go all dramatic to encourage the chances for those who do like it to then miss out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did state that my point was extremely blunt and was hoping for a resonable response but it seems i may of hoped for too much. But again I try to see things with an open mind, way up the pros and cons, with certain games and achievement systems only tick the cons imho.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In what way would good, well engineered achievements devalue the game? The only thing I can think of is that achievement hunters (and I'm not one of them in all honesty, I also don't care one bit about achievements, but I have friends who do because they enjoy going for them) will no longer play the game once they get all the achievements. But the truth is that without those achievements, they'd probably not even purchase the game, or if they did, would get bored of it because other serious games also have achievements now as standard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question are your friends PC gamers? Do they play any mmos if they are? Do they dabble in modding of any games? Like ive said above i purchase a game based on its content and depth not on an achievement list. The original half life didnt have an achievement system, it just had an awesome story, fun to play and of course NS was spawned from it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Based on feedback on this thread, I really hope UWE ignore the "pursists" (communists would be more descriptive) on here who only want what they like and nothing else. Achievements are standard in good games these days, if they're well thought out it can have zero impact on teamplay and can in fact only encourage it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would like to see and example of these achievements from you and how it would work in NS2.
Milestone achievements that promote skilled play and team play are fantastic additions to the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, that is simple. I don't, by all means, say, that simple is bad. I just wanted to know what kind of achievement a "well engineered" one is.