Video Card Advice

A_Newbie · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Upgrading my video card?</div> Hi

I need some advice!

Should I upgrade from ATI Radeon 7200 32MB PCI to Hercules 3D Prophet 9000 64MB PCI?

I'm asking here cause I can't seem to find ANY reviews on this video card (Hercules 32 Prophet 9000 64MB PCI) at all!

Please don't reply with "just get a new computer/motherboard"

And would I get a good performance boost with the Hercules?

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

If you like ATI Radeon cards, you should look at the ATI Radeon All-in-Wonder 8500DV. It's not too expensive anymore, now that they've got the All-in-Wonder 9700 PRO out. If you've got $450, get that, it annihilates the top GeForce4 card in every benchmark. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

And I've never heard of the Hercules 3D Prophet 9000 64MB PCI card either... check <a href='http://www.hardocp.com' target='_blank'>http://www.hardocp.com</a> or <a href='http://www.anandtech.com' target='_blank'>http://www.anandtech.com</a>, they have lots of reviews at those sites.

A_Newbie · November 2002

Neither of those two sites got a review on that video card, the site I plan on buying it from is <a href='https://www.compusmart.com/' target='_blank'>https://www.compusmart.com/</a>
Says on that site the video card uses the ATI 9000 graphics processor.
And do you know if the ATI Radeon All-in-Wonder 8500DV is a PCI video card?
If so you know a Canadian web store i can buy/look at it?

Kamakazie · November 2002

Which video card is better
radeon 9000 128mb ddr $89
<a href='http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/doc2/A18330.html' target='_blank'>http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/doc2/A18330.html</a>
Geforce 3 Ti 200
GAINWARD/CARDEXPERT TI450 64MB GEFORCE3 TI-200 DDR 4XAGP W/TV OUT $79.00?

TychoCelchuuu · November 2002

The 9000.

Talesin · December 2002

EASILY the 9000. The Ti (low number here) are pretty much just marketspeak for 'MX'. On my machine (Ath-700) my Radeon 9000 Pro gets rock-solid 100fps in NS. The standard 9000 is just clocked a little lower.. should perform just a *little* worse. Or better, with a more powerful CPU to back it.

And no. I know of no modern video card (Besides Kyro1-based cards) that are available in PCI formats. AGP only.

MercenaryForHire · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Dec 2 2002, 05:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>EASILY the 9000. The Ti (low number here) are pretty much just marketspeak for 'MX'. On my machine (Ath-700) my Radeon 9000 Pro gets rock-solid 100fps in NS. The standard 9000 is just clocked a little lower.. should perform just a *little* worse. Or better, with a more powerful CPU to back it..</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Ti is not MX. Sheesh.

gF3 Ti or gF4 MX ~= R9000 (give or take)
gF4 Ti > R9000

Plus you don't have to fight with vsync, the ati fix for HL, and you get some real drivers too. :S

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And no. I know of no modern video card (Besides Kyro1-based cards) that are available in PCI formats. AGP only</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

gF4 MX PCI. There's a <b>lot</b> available in the PCI format.

- M4H

FlatlineUTD · December 2002

I've found that MX = crap, and Ti = normal. I'm a fan of both ATI and GeForce cards, I'll just buy whichever one I can get the biggest deal on.

Talesin · December 2002

Nah, MX is just the pre-Ti rating system. The Ti200/400/whatever are just the Ti-rating MXes. The 9000 *Pro* can keep up with the GF4 Ti4600. The 9700 Pro can beat the in-development GF5 (NOT FX, GF5 is the step past the FX as I've read) by 25-300%.

Oh, and it helps that Fry's Electronics are running a sale this week. ATI-official Radeon 9000 Pro for just under $80. ^_^ I'm just waiting for the store to open so I can take my card back and get the exact same one, but just under $80 cheaper than I paid for it less than a month ago. $20 cash off and a $50 mail-in, minus the extra tax. Heck, I might even be able to afford a new mobo, CPU and case with the saved cash.

(edit) Oh, and the 9000 series are the R250 core. 9700 series are the R300 core, IIRC. (/edit)

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <<<b>CHOMPEH!!</b>>> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

mwells · December 2002

I don't really recommend using PCI slot cards, with AGP 4X(I know 8X is out, but what's the use when only the R9700 supports it?) you get a lot more raw bandwidth devoted to the video card, giving you faster frame rates, less frame lag, better detail, etc.

My personal recommendation is a Radeon 9000 with 64MB of DDR SDRAM, or if you're a bit put off by the price, you can get a GeForce4 MX 440, slightly less powerful than the 9000, slightly lower cost.

Talesin · December 2002

Fry's Electronics, Nov 30th - Dec 3rd.
---
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro, 128MB DDR -- $80.

Lower price, more memory, AGP 4x. Any problems left? Forget 64MB. Grab 128, you won't have to worry about it later down the road. ^_^

Arasmus · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Dec 2 2002, 01:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Nah, MX is just the pre-Ti rating system. The Ti200/400/whatever are just the Ti-rating MXes. The 9000 *Pro* can keep up with the GF4 Ti4600. The 9700 Pro can beat the in-development GF5 (NOT FX, GF5 is the step past the FX as I've read) by 25-300%.

</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
No. The 9000 Pro was designed specifically to take on and beat the GF4 MX line of cards. This is part of ATI's attempt to steal that lucrative OEM market from nvidia. The 9000 Pro does a wonderful job at that, plus it has DX 8 functionality that the GF4 MX cards lack.

But the 9000 doesn't even come close to matching the GF4 Ti line, that's what the 9700 is for.

Nvidia, in some strange marketing scheme designate their performance cards with the 'Ti', and their budget cards with the 'MX'. Which is going to lead to even more confussion when the GF FX is released. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

To A Newbie:

I really need to know more about your systems before I can tell you if this upgrade is worthwhile. Going to the 9000 will give you DX 8 functionality, but you might not see that great a performance gain if your system isn't able to drive the card. The 9000 is the best budget card on the market, but it might be best to wait on a new card if you need a system upgrade to take advantage of it.

But do yourself a favor and stay away from the GF4 MX cards, they are nothing more than hyped up GF 2 cards.

Talesin · December 2002

That's funny, as my 9000 Pro currently will beat out a GF4 Ti4200 on a comparable system, and keep up (admittedly, slightly under by a few fps) with a Ti4600. And as noted, the 9700 blows anything nVidia currently has even in development away by 25-300%. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

MercenaryForHire · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Dec 2 2002, 02:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>That's funny, as my 9000 Pro currently will beat out a GF4 Ti4200 on a comparable system, and keep up (admittedly, slightly under by a few fps) with a Ti4600. And as noted, the 9700 blows anything nVidia currently has even in development away by 25-300%. <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Stop trolling, ATI fanboy.

The 9700 Pro has <b>maybe</b> a 25% lead over a Ti4600, considering price vs performance.

The geForce FX is going to 0wn it.

The next ATI card will 0wn the geForce FX.

The next nVidia card (which is <b>not</b> the geForce5, they're ditching that numbering system) will 0wn the next ATI card.

And so on.

300% performance my arse. Does ATI pay you to nef this crap?

Edit:
<a href='http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1655' target='_blank'>ATI Radeon 9000 Pro -- The geForce4 MX Killer</a>
Please note the MX460 tagging a few frames back of the 9000 Pro, and the "lowly" Ti4200 beating the snot out of it. Also notice the Ti4600 (which your R9000 can supposedly "keep up with") <b>utterly raping</b> the poor R9000.

<a href='http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1683' target='_blank'>ATI Radeon 9700 Pro - Delivering as Promised</a>
The only competition ATI currently has. Note that the average benefit in UT2K3 (the only video-limited test, really) is about 40%. <b>Not</b> 300%.

- M4H

ShingyBoy · December 2002

While were on the subject anyone know where i can find a good driver for voodoo 3 coz i seem to be crashing on some MODS and i think i need a good tweaker and drivers which mite help obviously a whole new comp can help but this is all i can do but i dont know of any good drivers or tweakers someone help?

Arasmus · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShingyBoy @ Dec 3 2002, 02:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>While were on the subject anyone know where i can find a good driver for voodoo 3 coz i seem to be crashing on some MODS and i think i need a good tweaker and drivers which mite help obviously a whole new comp can help but this is all i can do but i dont know of any good drivers or tweakers someone help?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Voodoo 3 eh?

Okay, go here <a href='http://www.voodoofiles.com/471' target='_blank'>(CLICK)</a> and get these Wicked GL drivers. They help a great deal with Half Life and it's mods.

Also dig through <a href='http://www.voodoofiles.com' target='_blank'>www.voodoofiles.com</a> and see what else you may find. Honestly that card is on it's last legs as far as working with new games, and community driver support probably last much longer.

ShingyBoy · December 2002

Thnx 4 that but i cant seem to download wicked GL from that site at all and i cant go onto the main website help?

Talesin · December 2002

Nah, M4H. Though I do bear nVidiot a bit of a grudge for what they did to my former card, a Kyro2-based unit.

Sent out an 'informational package' containing statistics on the K2, screenshots of 'visual artifacting' that needed to be specifically _turned on_ in the drivers to happen, ran underclocked K2 benchmarks to 'prove' that the GF2MXes were 'better' cards. Oh, and they didn't give it to customers... they gave it to <b>distributors</b> so that they wouldn't stock 'em and customers would HAVE to choose between nVidiot junk and ATI.

At the moment, my Radeon 9000 Pro runs about even with a GF4 Ti4200 in a comparable system. It CAN beat a 4600 in some instances. Mine was also only $80.

The Radeon 9700 Pro is _documented_ to stomp nVidia's development gear by 25-300% in an open benchmark. Meaning same settings on both sides. The nVidiot 'benchmark' FX figures for Doom3, for example, are with ALL the nice eye-candy turned <b>off</b>. Radeon 9700 Pro is with all of them turned ON.

If anything, who's the fanboy... the one pointing out a card's strengths and revealing a duplicitous company's business practices, or the one saying 'No it's not!!!1!'

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