pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
They even said that direct x 9b is supported (cards with lower shader version).
I'm curious how much video card memory is min. requirement, because it isn't mentioned anywhere, and it might be possible that those old, yet supported dx9b cards don't have enough memory in the first place.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2010
I don't get why people say DX10 and 11 have nothing.. I see a lot of differences from 9.. its all subtle effects, but they are there. Playing through stalker right now, the sunrays add a whole lot to the atmosphere. I will admit though, in screen shots there appears to be no difference. Though I clearly see a difference in game.
<!--quoteo(post=1753250:date=Feb 15 2010, 07:11 AM:name=ssjyoda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssjyoda @ Feb 15 2010, 07:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753250"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't get why people say DX10 and 11 have nothing.. I see a lot of differences from 9.. its all subtle effects, but they are there. Playing through stalker right now, the sunrays add a whole lot to the atmosphere. I will admit though, in screen shots there appears to be no difference. Though I clearly see a difference in game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because DirectX 10 was a gimmick with a production release coordinated with Vista. It was part of the whole "Vista is here!" bundle, so its good features were overlooked and it got a bad rap.
Basically, DirectX 11 = Windows 7 -- they finally figured out that people didn't want a load of new features, they just wanted the ones added to actually be polished and work properly.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
I get that dx 10 and 11 got thrown under the bus with Vista... but how long ago was all that crap now. I personally can't stand playing any games in dx9 anymore, everything is just so harsh as opposed to a softer image.
<!--quoteo(post=1753262:date=Feb 15 2010, 10:12 AM:name=ssjyoda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssjyoda @ Feb 15 2010, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753262"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I get that dx 10 and 11 got thrown under the bus with Vista... but how long ago was all that crap now. I personally can't stand playing any games in dx9 anymore, everything is just so harsh as opposed to a softer image.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should probably know that most games don't even take advantage of dx10 features. Even so, these "features" don't really noticeably impact the look or feel of a game -- DirectX is just an API that gives you access to the renderer. If things look that much better in DX10 games, it's probably more because modern developers can use features that take advantage of more powerful hardware since technology tends to improve rather quickly.
Why didn't they just use OpenGL for the sake of multiplatforms...
At the very least, i think it's odd they just force it to be dx9... why not let the end-user pick the level of directx in use... Even if the game doesn't make use of the features... i'd like to see a dx version > 9 lol.
Btw doesn't it future proof the game if somewhere down the road they improve the visuals... although i guess they could just release uber-patches to support new versions of directx as needed. (hope they don't go down the road of pay-for dlc lol)
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
I understand all of that.. but to say that the newer API and tech has no noticeable impact on visuals is, I don't know... I see differences. Lighting/shadows/bloom have a softer more natural look nowadays. Isn't that part of the reason pc gamers stay pc gamers, to take advantage of the new tech as it comes out.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY2s16B83nI&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY2s16B83nI...feature=related</a> I love how the sun looks at 1:28
As Max <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2010/2/spark_engine_questions_and_answers_1" target="_blank">stated</a>: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The largest Windows-specific piece is the low level rendering code which is built on Direct3D. In the interest of having our engine run on Linux and OS X someday, this low level rendering code is wrapped up so that it's mostly separate from the rest of the engine. With a small amount of effort, we can swap out this piece with an OpenGL implementation that will work on Linux and OS X.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you might be wondering why we don't just go ahead and do it. The answer is simple; we don't have the time right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So to infer, Direct X 10/11 stuff can and may be used in the future. Just not now.
<!--quoteo(post=1753269:date=Feb 15 2010, 05:45 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Feb 15 2010, 05:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At the very least, i think it's odd they just force it to be dx9... why not let the end-user pick the level of directx in use... Even if the game doesn't make use of the features... i'd like to see a dx version > 9 lol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> DirectX doesn't work that way, you cannot just pick and choose which version you want to run with as an end user, it all has to be implemented by the developers. And the fact is DirectX 9 has been out for a long time now, and thus is very known by developers. I'm guessing if they were to develop NS2 for DX11, they would have to spend more time learning and fine tuning the new feature set. Also, DX11 is only supported if you have Vista/7 and a newer GFX card, which excludes a lot of people, and why would you want to do that?
<!--quoteo(post=1753262:date=Feb 15 2010, 10:12 AM:name=ssjyoda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssjyoda @ Feb 15 2010, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753262"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I get that dx 10 and 11 got thrown under the bus with Vista... but how long ago was all that crap now. I personally can't stand playing any games in dx9 anymore, everything is just so harsh as opposed to a softer image.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can implement EVERYTHING in DX10-11 using coding in DX9. Or OpenGL.
Might be a bit more inefficient, but you can (woohoo software shaders and OpenGL extension libraries).
Anyways, Shattered Horizon is a DX10+ game (no DX9 support). While shiny, I can't buy it since I'm still on a GeForce8800. Ding, instant lost sale.
<!--quoteo(post=1753285:date=Feb 15 2010, 01:29 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 15 2010, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyways, Shattered Horizon is a DX10+ game (no DX9 support). While shiny, I can't buy it since I'm still on a GeForce8800. Ding, instant lost sale.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that doesn't make any sense because the 8800 is a dx10 card, unless your still on XP then you should've typed out: Anyways, Shattered Horizon is a DX10+ game (no DX9 support). While shiny, I can't buy it since I'm still using Windows XP. Ding, instant lost sale.
<!--quoteo(post=1753340:date=Feb 15 2010, 05:38 PM:name=Hippo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hippo @ Feb 15 2010, 05:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that doesn't make any sense because the 8800 is a dx10 card, unless your still on XP then you should've typed out: Anyways, Shattered Horizon is a DX10+ game (no DX9 support). While shiny, I can't buy it since I'm still using Windows XP. Ding, instant lost sale.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, good catch. My bad.
The bonus of OpenGL over DX10+ is that you can load the extensions you need onto the system. Also, GLUT is awesome at making sure you don't try to do things you can't do.
It would be nice to have a DX10+ version of NS2, though.
If I recall correctly, the engine uses deferred shading. With DX9 and deferred shading, you can't do MSAA. You would need to use DX10 or higher to have anti-aliasing.
Games that use Unreal Engine 3 have this same problem. Pretty much every single UE3-based game doesn't support anti-aliasing. The few that do support DX10, like BioShock 1 & 2 or Gears of War, do support MSAA.
They could do edge-detection and blur along the edges like many games that use deferred shading do. The quality is nowhere near as good, but at least it gets rid of the stair-stepping everywhere.
Comments
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/FAQ" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/FAQ</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/FAQ" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/FAQ</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
" What are the system requirements?
A 1.2 GHz Processor, 256MB RAM, a DirectX 9 level graphics card, Windows Vista/2000/XP, mouse, keyboard and an internet connection. "
Couldnt that be the minimum requirements?
It does support Direct X 10 if you can run with it?
I'm curious how much video card memory is min. requirement, because it isn't mentioned anywhere, and it might be possible that those old, yet supported dx9b cards don't have enough memory in the first place.
Woohoo Dx9.
I would guess a 512MB Graphics card. Someone pull up Max's 3DMark ratings.
Don't worry, you're not missing out on much, even if you have Vista/7.
I will admit though, in screen shots there appears to be no difference. Though I clearly see a difference in game.
I will admit though, in screen shots there appears to be no difference. Though I clearly see a difference in game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because DirectX 10 was a gimmick with a production release coordinated with Vista. It was part of the whole "Vista is here!" bundle, so its good features were overlooked and it got a bad rap.
Basically, DirectX 11 = Windows 7 -- they finally figured out that people didn't want a load of new features, they just wanted the ones added to actually be polished and work properly.
You should probably know that most games don't even take advantage of dx10 features. Even so, these "features" don't really noticeably impact the look or feel of a game -- DirectX is just an API that gives you access to the renderer. If things look that much better in DX10 games, it's probably more because modern developers can use features that take advantage of more powerful hardware since technology tends to improve rather quickly.
At the very least, i think it's odd they just force it to be dx9... why not let the end-user pick the level of directx in use... Even if the game doesn't make use of the features... i'd like to see a dx version > 9 lol.
Btw doesn't it future proof the game if somewhere down the road they improve the visuals... although i guess they could just release uber-patches to support new versions of directx as needed. (hope they don't go down the road of pay-for dlc lol)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY2s16B83nI&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY2s16B83nI...feature=related</a> I love how the sun looks at 1:28
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The largest Windows-specific piece is the low level rendering code which is built on Direct3D. In the interest of having our engine run on Linux and OS X someday, this low level rendering code is wrapped up so that it's mostly separate from the rest of the engine. With a small amount of effort, we can swap out this piece with an OpenGL implementation that will work on Linux and OS X.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you might be wondering why we don't just go ahead and do it. The answer is simple; we don't have the time right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So to infer, Direct X 10/11 stuff can and may be used in the future. Just not now.
DirectX doesn't work that way, you cannot just pick and choose which version you want to run with as an end user, it all has to be implemented by the developers.
And the fact is DirectX 9 has been out for a long time now, and thus is very known by developers. I'm guessing if they were to develop NS2 for DX11, they would have to spend more time learning and fine tuning the new feature set. Also, DX11 is only supported if you have Vista/7 and a newer GFX card, which excludes a lot of people, and why would you want to do that?
You can implement EVERYTHING in DX10-11 using coding in DX9. Or OpenGL.
Might be a bit more inefficient, but you can (woohoo software shaders and OpenGL extension libraries).
Anyways, Shattered Horizon is a DX10+ game (no DX9 support). While shiny, I can't buy it since I'm still on a GeForce8800. Ding, instant lost sale.
that doesn't make any sense because the 8800 is a dx10 card, unless your still on XP then you should've typed out: Anyways, Shattered Horizon is a DX10+ game (no DX9 support). While shiny, I can't buy it since I'm still using Windows XP. Ding, instant lost sale.
Heh, good catch. My bad.
The bonus of OpenGL over DX10+ is that you can load the extensions you need onto the system. Also, GLUT is awesome at making sure you don't try to do things you can't do.
If I recall correctly, the engine uses deferred shading. With DX9 and deferred shading, you can't do MSAA. You would need to use DX10 or higher to have anti-aliasing.
Games that use Unreal Engine 3 have this same problem. Pretty much every single UE3-based game doesn't support anti-aliasing. The few that do support DX10, like BioShock 1 & 2 or Gears of War, do support MSAA.
They could do edge-detection and blur along the edges like many games that use deferred shading do. The quality is nowhere near as good, but at least it gets rid of the stair-stepping everywhere.