<!--quoteo(post=1751509:date=Feb 6 2010, 05:05 PM:name=celewign)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (celewign @ Feb 6 2010, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751509"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->no. in a game like this the movement of a player must always be in their hands. its frustrating to have your character doing things you didn't tell it to do with mouse/keyboard input.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have no concept of Physics do you.
Basically, that Flamethrower would have a Push Effect like players do in TF2 when they stand ontop of each other. This is a good idea because it allows the Flamethrower to not be an instant kill weapon, but still useful.
It turns the Flamethrower into a small area denial weapon.
<!--quoteo(post=1751524:date=Feb 6 2010, 06:07 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 6 2010, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751524"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Friendly Fire would be a must with that. Otherwise you could "save" people from skulks by bathing them all in a raging inferno, which would be terribly unfair to the xenos. It would also make it an appropriate weakness for the weapon if you couldn't use it to cover your teammates.
...on the other hand, then we're opening up a whole new can of worms...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe if Friendly Fire is <b>OFF</b>, the Flamethrower only depletes <b>ARMOR</b>. There would be still a disadvantage to spraying the Marine team in a frantic blaze, but would not be the ultimate TK Griefer tool.
I like the idea of aliens upgrading to counter it. Against lowteched aliens, it would be absolutely devastating. Against aliens whose tech progress is on par with the marines (flame resistance upgrades or whatever), it would be more of an annoyance and a "don't go over there" kind of thing, like spores. Regardless of upgrades it would always be extremely powerful for clearing infestation and structures.
I also like the idea of removing the flamethrower completely and bringing back the standalone grenade launcher. ^.^
just one idea, but will not solve all the problems: when the flamethrower is used in a corridor, the corridor fills with black smoke which blocks the marines vision, but aliens can still see through. therefore you will use it more carefully and not spray it endlessly
don't care whether it's realistic or not as long as it helps gameplay
Flamethrower will either be a weapon, or it will be ignored like the avp3 flamethrower.
If we look at the grenade launcher in NS1, i'd call that a weapon that dealt HEAVY damage to the skulks and lorks... It was also useful against enemy structures... but it was still effective at killing (even when the teams concentrating their fire, it helps to have someone lobbing grenades). It also did nice damage to onoses when you scored direct hits...
Now, i see people saying the flamethrower should be less powerful, and therefore less useful, then the NS1 grenade launcher. Seriously wtf. Imagine if the NS1 GL could do no damage against aliens, only structures... would you want THAT to be your primary weapon!!! Personally, in that situation, i'd rather fire several magazines of hmg or use a shotgun (with aid of commander ammo spam or armory nearby).
So there you have it... It MUST be useful, therefore it must be possible for 1 marine with a flamethrower to pwn some skulks (just as much as NS1 GL)... And be able to cut Lorks from the sky. Just make it less useful against fades and onoses (but still useful for blinding their view by setting things on fire, and smoke)... There it balances and remains useful in large scale siege map battles.
it seems that alot of people do not see the flamethrower as a primary, heavy damage weapon but more situational or support tool, like a tactical tool.
the Grenade Launcher in NS1 is a support weapon with high damage yes, but you cant really compare it with a flamethrower... when it comes to moving targets you think GL is the right choice? you use it when only lifeforms are around? The GL has potential when you fight alot of lifeforms in one place, against structures and hiverushes or if you just want to harass the hiveroom etc. and it needs some aim.
Flamethrower is completely different since it means DOT+short range. I'd just like to hear some news about the plans of UWE about it.
from my personal honest opinion, I do despise the idea of a flamethrower, I dislike the idea of the weapon and think that clearing infestation could be done by a welder secondary attack, without having to bother with balance of a "cool" sounding weapon that is banned in military uses for its inhumanity and high risks since world war 2. I just can't see Natural selection with a flamethrower, as it simply throws the main Idea, fast melee vs Slow Range, to the ground and stomps on it, then kicks the idea in its guts and proceeds with bashing the idea's skull in on a rusty metal wall.
I dislike the Idea to add a such a dedicated close combat weapon to the marines. and the game is Pre alpha anyway, and we haven't seen or heard of the flamethrower yet except on twitter. I have my hopes up.
as long as it can fulfil its primary role of lighting cigars im not fussed. If the fuel is available being able to clear structures with it quickly would be useful, but i wouldnt expect it to do much damage to higher order aliens. perhaps the aliens will get a flame resistent evolution option (are they having evo/chamber options in this game?).
Of course once you set infestation on fire, it should continue to burn... could make for interesting situations, smoke billowing against the ceiling of the room... Obviously marines have personal air-supplies. I can imagine that very large creatures like onoses, which consume large portions of air, would die from suffocation rather quickly. Lerks also, if they fly through the smoke, would fall from the air ahahahahaha. And obviously any creature set on fire from the napalm should burn till they die.
Makes sense... NS1 was about every marine dieing every few minutes. NS2 is about killing the enemy... it's the alien teams turn.
I made a thread to discuss different ways to implement the flamethrower into NS2 as i personally feel it would just simply not feel or play right. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=108830" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=108830</a>
Maybe a way to discourage bathing your teammates in holy fire to nab those pesky skulks would be to have a <i>slight</i> chance of igniting the chemicals inside the skulk and making it xenocide upon burning to death.
I'd further suggest that a burning skulk being killed by a bullet would still die normally, so you could still use it for vent clearing if you're handy with your pistol if he jumps out. But I think it'd help discourage that spray and pray tactic when it hits the fan.
Probably a bit late in the development for that though. That, and it being a bad idea I just happened to have at 2am.
<!--quoteo(post=1751947:date=Feb 9 2010, 12:17 AM:name=Phin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phin @ Feb 9 2010, 12:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751947"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe a way to discourage bathing your teammates in holy fire to nab those pesky skulks would be to have a <i>slight</i> chance of igniting the chemicals inside the skulk and making it xenocide upon burning to death.
I'd further suggest that a burning skulk being killed by a bullet would still die normally, so you could still use it for vent clearing if you're handy with your pistol if he jumps out. But I think it'd help discourage that spray and pray tactic when it hits the fan.
Probably a bit late in the development for that though. That, and it being a bad idea I just happened to have at 2am.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually one of the better ideas suggested so far, imo :p
<!--quoteo(post=1751947:date=Feb 8 2010, 07:17 PM:name=Phin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phin @ Feb 8 2010, 07:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751947"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe a way to discourage bathing your teammates in holy fire to nab those pesky skulks would be to have a <i>slight</i> chance of igniting the chemicals inside the skulk and making it xenocide upon burning to death.
I'd further suggest that a burning skulk being killed by a bullet would still die normally, so you could still use it for vent clearing if you're handy with your pistol if he jumps out. But I think it'd help discourage that spray and pray tactic when it hits the fan.
Probably a bit late in the development for that though. That, and it being a bad idea I just happened to have at 2am.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a good idea... lol it would be helpful in a hive situation because i would expect a xenociding alien to deal damage to the alien team as well. Therefore if i see some skulks in the hive, i will want to set them on fire for the extra benefit of causing explosions :P
It would be the same effect as when Ripley throws that bandoleer of launchable grenades into the fire after setting the hive on fire... the extra explosions dealing extra damage :)
--------------------------
Not to get off-topic but i think everyone still thinks of NS1 gameplay when they think of NS2... If i remember correctly the marines are getting a MINIGUN... now how does that fit in the carefully balanced world of NS1 lol... Because obviously it should be easy to cut everything in half with that thing!
<!--quoteo(post=1751684:date=Feb 7 2010, 12:44 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Feb 7 2010, 12:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have no concept of Physics do you.
Basically, that Flamethrower would have a Push Effect like players do in TF2 when they stand ontop of each other. This is a good idea because it allows the Flamethrower to not be an instant kill weapon, but still useful.
It turns the Flamethrower into a small area denial weapon.
Maybe if Friendly Fire is <b>OFF</b>, the Flamethrower only depletes <b>ARMOR</b>. There would be still a disadvantage to spraying the Marine team in a frantic blaze, but would not be the ultimate TK Griefer tool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have no concept of what makes NS different from regular shooters, do you? Its a game more about skill and tactics than anything. One thing skilled players of any game hate is loss of character control. Are you trying to make a game where certain elements can make you lose character control? If so, go play team fortress 2 and stay away from more skill based games.
<!--quoteo(post=1751959:date=Feb 9 2010, 12:18 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Feb 9 2010, 12:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751959"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not to get off-topic but i think everyone still thinks of NS1 gameplay when they think of NS2... If i remember correctly the marines are getting a MINIGUN... now how does that fit in the carefully balanced world of NS1 lol... Because obviously it should be easy to cut everything in half with that thing!
A heavy machine gun, which featured in NS1, puts out a devastating amount of firepower; more than enough to "cut everything in half" as you say. Yet it worked in the carefully balanced world of NS1. I see no reason why the addition of a minigun would change all that; if an Onos can stand up to a HMG it can stand up to a minigun, though possibly not for quite as long. Perhaps the minigun will be a "Tier 3" weapon, available only at great cost and much time. Perhaps it will simply be a reskinned HMG.
Regardless, we think of NS1's gameplay when thinking of NS2 because it's logical (and the videos released back this up) that many gameplay elements from NS1 will feature in NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1751947:date=Feb 9 2010, 12:17 AM:name=Phin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phin @ Feb 9 2010, 12:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751947"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe a way to discourage bathing your teammates in holy fire to nab those pesky skulks would be to have a <i>slight</i> chance of igniting the chemicals inside the skulk and making it xenocide upon burning to death.
I'd further suggest that a burning skulk being killed by a bullet would still die normally, so you could still use it for vent clearing if you're handy with your pistol if he jumps out. But I think it'd help discourage that spray and pray tactic when it hits the fan.
Probably a bit late in the development for that though. That, and it being a bad idea I just happened to have at 2am.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
You have no concept of Physics do you.
Basically, that Flamethrower would have a Push Effect like players do in TF2 when they stand ontop of each other. This is a good idea because it allows the Flamethrower to not be an instant kill weapon, but still useful.
It turns the Flamethrower into a small area denial weapon.
<!--quoteo(post=1751524:date=Feb 6 2010, 06:07 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 6 2010, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751524"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Friendly Fire would be a must with that. Otherwise you could "save" people from skulks by bathing them all in a raging inferno, which would be terribly unfair to the xenos. It would also make it an appropriate weakness for the weapon if you couldn't use it to cover your teammates.
...on the other hand, then we're opening up a whole new can of worms...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe if Friendly Fire is <b>OFF</b>, the Flamethrower only depletes <b>ARMOR</b>. There would be still a disadvantage to spraying the Marine team in a frantic blaze, but would not be the ultimate TK Griefer tool.
I also like the idea of removing the flamethrower completely and bringing back the standalone grenade launcher. ^.^
when the flamethrower is used in a corridor, the corridor fills with black smoke which blocks the marines vision, but aliens can still see through.
therefore you will use it more carefully and not spray it endlessly
don't care whether it's realistic or not as long as it helps gameplay
If we look at the grenade launcher in NS1, i'd call that a weapon that dealt HEAVY damage to the skulks and lorks... It was also useful against enemy structures... but it was still effective at killing (even when the teams concentrating their fire, it helps to have someone lobbing grenades). It also did nice damage to onoses when you scored direct hits...
Now, i see people saying the flamethrower should be less powerful, and therefore less useful, then the NS1 grenade launcher. Seriously wtf. Imagine if the NS1 GL could do no damage against aliens, only structures... would you want THAT to be your primary weapon!!! Personally, in that situation, i'd rather fire several magazines of hmg or use a shotgun (with aid of commander ammo spam or armory nearby).
So there you have it... It MUST be useful, therefore it must be possible for 1 marine with a flamethrower to pwn some skulks (just as much as NS1 GL)... And be able to cut Lorks from the sky. Just make it less useful against fades and onoses (but still useful for blinding their view by setting things on fire, and smoke)... There it balances and remains useful in large scale siege map battles.
it seems that alot of people do not see the flamethrower as a primary, heavy damage weapon but more situational or support tool, like a tactical tool.
the Grenade Launcher in NS1 is a support weapon with high damage yes, but you cant really compare it with a flamethrower... when it comes to moving targets you think GL is the right choice? you use it when only lifeforms are around? The GL has potential when you fight alot of lifeforms in one place, against structures and hiverushes or if you just want to harass the hiveroom etc. and it needs some aim.
Flamethrower is completely different since it means DOT+short range. I'd just like to hear some news about the plans of UWE about it.
I just can't see Natural selection with a flamethrower, as it simply throws the main Idea, fast melee vs Slow Range, to the ground and stomps on it, then kicks the idea in its guts and proceeds with bashing the idea's skull in on a rusty metal wall.
I dislike the Idea to add a such a dedicated close combat weapon to the marines. and the game is Pre alpha anyway, and we haven't seen or heard of the flamethrower yet except on twitter. I have my hopes up.
Makes sense... NS1 was about every marine dieing every few minutes. NS2 is about killing the enemy... it's the alien teams turn.
<img src="http://allpics4u.com/www/slike/bizarre-oddities/weapons/flamethrower2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=108830" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=108830</a>
I'd further suggest that a burning skulk being killed by a bullet would still die normally, so you could still use it for vent clearing if you're handy with your pistol if he jumps out. But I think it'd help discourage that spray and pray tactic when it hits the fan.
Probably a bit late in the development for that though. That, and it being a bad idea I just happened to have at 2am.
I'd further suggest that a burning skulk being killed by a bullet would still die normally, so you could still use it for vent clearing if you're handy with your pistol if he jumps out. But I think it'd help discourage that spray and pray tactic when it hits the fan.
Probably a bit late in the development for that though. That, and it being a bad idea I just happened to have at 2am.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually one of the better ideas suggested so far, imo :p
I'd further suggest that a burning skulk being killed by a bullet would still die normally, so you could still use it for vent clearing if you're handy with your pistol if he jumps out. But I think it'd help discourage that spray and pray tactic when it hits the fan.
Probably a bit late in the development for that though. That, and it being a bad idea I just happened to have at 2am.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a good idea... lol it would be helpful in a hive situation because i would expect a xenociding alien to deal damage to the alien team as well. Therefore if i see some skulks in the hive, i will want to set them on fire for the extra benefit of causing explosions :P
It would be the same effect as when Ripley throws that bandoleer of launchable grenades into the fire after setting the hive on fire... the extra explosions dealing extra damage :)
--------------------------
Not to get off-topic but i think everyone still thinks of NS1 gameplay when they think of NS2... If i remember correctly the marines are getting a MINIGUN... now how does that fit in the carefully balanced world of NS1 lol... Because obviously it should be easy to cut everything in half with that thing!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=403aklHwL9g&NR=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=403aklHwL9g&NR=1</a>
Basically, that Flamethrower would have a Push Effect like players do in TF2 when they stand ontop of each other. This is a good idea because it allows the Flamethrower to not be an instant kill weapon, but still useful.
It turns the Flamethrower into a small area denial weapon.
Maybe if Friendly Fire is <b>OFF</b>, the Flamethrower only depletes <b>ARMOR</b>. There would be still a disadvantage to spraying the Marine team in a frantic blaze, but would not be the ultimate TK Griefer tool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have no concept of what makes NS different from regular shooters, do you? Its a game more about skill and tactics than anything. One thing skilled players of any game hate is loss of character control. Are you trying to make a game where certain elements can make you lose character control? If so, go play team fortress 2 and stay away from more skill based games.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=403aklHwL9g&NR=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=403aklHwL9g&NR=1</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A heavy machine gun, which featured in NS1, puts out a devastating amount of firepower; more than enough to "cut everything in half" as you say. Yet it worked in the carefully balanced world of NS1. I see no reason why the addition of a minigun would change all that; if an Onos can stand up to a HMG it can stand up to a minigun, though possibly not for quite as long. Perhaps the minigun will be a "Tier 3" weapon, available only at great cost and much time. Perhaps it will simply be a reskinned HMG.
Regardless, we think of NS1's gameplay when thinking of NS2 because it's logical (and the videos released back this up) that many gameplay elements from NS1 will feature in NS2.
I'd further suggest that a burning skulk being killed by a bullet would still die normally, so you could still use it for vent clearing if you're handy with your pistol if he jumps out. But I think it'd help discourage that spray and pray tactic when it hits the fan.
Probably a bit late in the development for that though. That, and it being a bad idea I just happened to have at 2am.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Random is bad.