Weapon Switching
WhiteZero
That Guy Join Date: 2004-06-24 Member: 29511Members, Constellation
That Guy Join Date: 2004-06-24 Member: 29511Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">A Plea to UWE!</div>Watching the Pre-Alpha footage I noticed something that many FPS' get wrong with weapon switching.
When you switch between weapons, it plays the slide-pull (or "gun cocking") animation when bringing up a different gun. As a real-life gun nut, I have to point out that the only time the slide should be pulled back is to chamber a round when the chamber is empty, which is only after a magazine has been emptied and you've reloaded.
This may seem like a small nit-pick, but saving that 1 precious second to not play the animation can mean the difference between life and death. When you're being run down by a skulk and your rifle runs out of ammo, and you go to switch to your pistol, the last thing you need is a useless slide-pull animation when there is actually already a round chambered.
Please, UWE: Only have a gun-cocking animation occur when reloading, not when switching between already loaded weapons.
When you switch between weapons, it plays the slide-pull (or "gun cocking") animation when bringing up a different gun. As a real-life gun nut, I have to point out that the only time the slide should be pulled back is to chamber a round when the chamber is empty, which is only after a magazine has been emptied and you've reloaded.
This may seem like a small nit-pick, but saving that 1 precious second to not play the animation can mean the difference between life and death. When you're being run down by a skulk and your rifle runs out of ammo, and you go to switch to your pistol, the last thing you need is a useless slide-pull animation when there is actually already a round chambered.
Please, UWE: Only have a gun-cocking animation occur when reloading, not when switching between already loaded weapons.
Comments
Again, in the heat of battle, every second is critical.
So?
Give Akimbo weapons then..
You are kinda reasoning a balance issue/change with a visual issue/realism.
Either you say that weapon switch should be faster for balance reasons you can't know yet, or you complain about visuals that don't make sense, which doesn't mean much because gameplay>visuals>realism.
I prefer fast weaponswitch so I kinda agree with you, but it's all about gameplay and balance, so you can't really judge it yet.
This suggestion really doesn't need to have anything to do with gameplay. This really comes down to a detail which would add some realism with no actual detriment to the game. It's a great idea.
If the game was already developed and you removed part of the animation on the weapon switch and put it on the weapon reload it could have an effect on the timing. But, it's just as easy to make the weapon switch take the exact same amount of time regardless of if the weapon cocking animation is part of it or not, and ditto for the reload.
The speed of weapon switching which has been mentioned in this thread is a different issue entirely. I would agree that fast weapon switches are important, especially paired with the ability to cancel a reload.
Truth is, it's not a tradeoff between realism and gameplay here. We can have our cake and eat it too!
Are you?
Because this kind of problem, to me, generally seems like an animation oversight. There are so many other ways to balance a game other than to turn a blind eye to realism.
If we didn't care about realism over gameplay then we wouldn't have physics, ammo, health in games. Wouldn't a game be much simpler and easy to play without these things?
This sort of limitation is only giving people a handicap on their own reactionary ability. I can think and move my fingers fast enough to whip out a weapon to defend myself, but oh, this unrealistically placed animation has to play first, now I'm dead.
<!--quoteo(post=1751371:date=Feb 6 2010, 12:07 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Feb 6 2010, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1751371"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The speed of weapon switching which has been mentioned in this thread is a different issue entirely. I would agree that fast weapon switches are important, especially paired with the ability to cancel a reload.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen to reload canceling.
But at least it's constructive criticism. :D
And yeah, this is something that doesn't really need to be addressed until balancing comes more into play during Beta.
Even though I almost always tend to prefer gameplay and coolness over realism. If there is a good reason for having this 1 sec switch time, I don't see it, and would like to be enlightened.
It should be faster to switch to a secondary weapon than to reload your primary. Not the other way around though, pulling out a primary should take longer than reloading your secondary.
And yes, reload canceling is awesome! I would also like to see the possibility to melee (knife, knuckles, hit with your gun, whatever) while reloading, jumping and crouching/proning. While doing those tasks, it would be most realistic (and fun imo) to actually hit with your gun, as you'd have little to no time to bring out a knife (or switch-axe or whatever is in NS2^^).
No one would keep reloading if you see some skulk leaping at your face, if you had the possibility to hit it back with your gun and maybe stun it or knock it away.
However, having fast switch can produce issues such as the weaker Khaara (skulk, gorge) having less time to retreat or gain an advantage over Marines.
I'll leave this to the Dev's though.
But you would be right if this was Counterstrike!
Include an option to Auto Reload when gun is empty, like Day of Defeat. Makes the game more strategic. Do I pull out my Pistol to shoot the Skulk in the distance, or do I prepare for the 3 Skulk ambush I do not see around the corner?
This is one of the arcadey/quakish things I would change NS2 for the better.
Remember people, the LMG and HMG have been combined into a better averaged starting weapon for the Marines. The MG as I like to call it, probably will not require Weapons 1 anymore just to be able to kill a lot of Skulks.
As far as I have been able to gather, the MG also can choose the Grenade Launcher or the Flamethrower attachment (for a cost of course).
The LMG has been truly turned into a Swiss Army Knife, it has to have one drawback since it is free when you spawn.
As in like, press the power switch. Change the phazer power setting from stun to maximum, Star Trek style?
(LOL Z!!! Could be interesting.)
Maybe the Ammo counter has to activate after a 0.5-2 second delay? That could be the work around.
Also I forgot to add this:
I think the MG with no attachments is getting a bash/stun kind of like Left 4 Dead, so I do think you won't be completely disadvantaged if they disable reload cancelling for the MG. Assuming that has not been scraped yet.
I agree with Celchuuu's take on the Pistol. We have no ideas how these guns actually function and right now, the animation they have is pretty snazzy.
But you would be right if this was Counterstrike!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I LOLed.
Even your ridiculously technical explanation falls into the same situation. Why does it need to be primed more than once? why would the rine prime it over and over again if I switch between weapons constantly.
Still an animation oversight.
No it's not a huge deal. Yes it's something that should be addressed.
/thread
Even your ridiculously technical explanation falls into the same situation. Why does it need to be primed more than once? why would the rine prime it over and over again if I switch between weapons constantly.
Still an animation oversight.
No it's not a huge deal. Yes it's something that should be addressed.
/thread<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read his wall of text. The nanites in the gun are only active for a short time after being activated. The marine is also trained to prime it every time he pulls it out to be sure it will always function correctly. And the marine switching between his main weapon and his pistol 20 times a minute, makes as much sense as the marine priming the pistol 10 times in that minute.
I did. Did you?
He said "a couple of minutes". You know how much combat can occur in a "couple minutes"?
Anyway, it's ludicrous to read into that post sense it was created basically to say "we don't really know how the guns work in the world of NS". And the truth is, UWE will probably never get that much into detail about it.
All this comes down to is balance of the time it takes to switch weapons.
He said "a couple of minutes". You know how much combat can occur in a "couple minutes"?
Anyway, it's ludicrous to read into that post sense it was created basically to say "we don't really know how the guns work in the world of NS". And the truth is, UWE will probably never get that much into detail about it.
All this comes down to is balance of the time it takes to switch weapons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
His explanation is about as ludicrous as making guesses at game balance from a 2 second video clip.
To all those people that say that there needs to be time between switching weapons and not so instanteous, I'm not going to disagree or agree with that. But to use it to justify that cocking animation is just illogical. You do not need to have that cocking animation to drag out the time between situation. The devs can easily remove that animation, and just add one second to the weapon switch. Like making the guns come into view just a little bit slower. Or if you want, have a safety trigger that the marine would have to press everytime he draws his gun/puts it away.
Grasping for leaves in the wind here.
My bigger beef is with the Rifle's viewmodel though. Did you see the way that thing was swinging during the sprint animation? Your elbow would literally be above your head if you were waving your arms around like that. Has anyone at UWE ever, like, touched a real gun before? Or just run while carrying something?