Although yes for example you have Blizzard with a Starcraft/Diabo/Warcraft team, then staffing etc.
Equally though, UWE, have <10 people to do all of that. In the grand scale of things, one UWE team member has to be worth 20 or 30 people compared to other companies in the market in order to compete.
You guys do relize that an alpha build of the game will be NOTHING like the release, and it will be buggy/glitchy/unoptimized/broken/messed up/sad/depressing/unfinished.
Betas are bad enough but an alpha is 10x worse.
Shut up and realize the alpha wont be out for a few months. Now go play ns1 or something.
<!--quoteo(post=1748318:date=Jan 20 2010, 08:28 PM:name=Hoodedsniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hoodedsniper @ Jan 20 2010, 08:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shut up and realize the alpha wont be out for a few months. Now go play ns1 or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And the thread was coming back on track nicely with some decent talk thanks to Thaldarin's input...
About the team's size: They do accomplish a great deal for such a small group of people. They don't have the luxury of being able to focus on one "job" (i.e. Charlie doing customer support, design and coding (and probably more)) and this, in my opinion, shows the devotion they put into making NS2.
I'd just like to add for all those who say UWE is cheating consumers with their fake release date and big scam scam money schemes - We, as a community, contributed to the desire for a pre-order before the game is released.
For all the long time fans you will already remember how many of us told Charlie + Co. we'd pre-order just to give them some extra funds. I don't think that was even that long ago that they mentioned funding was a problem and dozens from this community immediately offered their financial support. I was one of those people.
Now, for all those new guys (and the occasional female) I suggest either checking the old posts to understand how this situation came about, or just stfu. The majority of paying customers are fine with the way things are right now.
If your not even a paying customer and you are of the opinion that something is "unfair", you reserve the right to offer that opinion but like many others, you will be ignored or accused of being a troll.
<!--quoteo(post=1748312:date=Jan 20 2010, 07:56 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 20 2010, 07:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748312"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->iD generally work on one title at a time.
Although yes for example you have Blizzard with a Starcraft/Diabo/Warcraft team, then staffing etc.
Equally though, UWE, have <10 people to do all of that. In the grand scale of things, one UWE team member has to be worth 20 or 30 people compared to other companies in the market in order to compete.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think they are 11 in UWE now aren't they?
Valve was about 30 people when they released Half-Life, but I heard they started the project way under that number.
<!--quoteo(post=1748328:date=Jan 20 2010, 11:50 PM:name=Cattabliss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cattabliss @ Jan 20 2010, 11:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748328"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd just like to add for all those who say UWE is cheating consumers with their fake release date and big scam scam money schemes - We, as a community, contributed to the desire for a pre-order before the game is released.
For all the long time fans you will already remember how many of us told Charlie + Co. we'd pre-order just to give them some extra funds. I don't think that was even that long ago that they mentioned funding was a problem and dozens from this community immediately offered their financial support. I was one of those people.
Now, for all those new guys (and the occasional female) I suggest either checking the old posts to understand how this situation came about, or just stfu. The majority of paying customers are fine with the way things are right now.
If your not even a paying customer and you are of the opinion that something is "unfair", you reserve the right to offer that opinion but like many others, you will be ignored or accused of being a troll.
Too bad huh?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. But, just to remember, most of the people that complains about UWE wants <b>screenshots, short videos, anything that shows the real game, anything that shows a marine shooting a skulk and blood on the ground etc</b>. I really think that they could do that, since they've stated that the game has a lot of stuff already done. Tell me: <b>How difficult is it to take a quick screenshot of a skulk and a marine fighting? How difficult is it to take a quick screenshot of a marine beside an IP, an Armory and a Command Center? We just want more contents of the game, <u>not the game itself, since, I believe, most of the community won't mind to wait a bit more for a great game</u>.</b>
BadMouthIt ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titlJoin Date: 2004-05-21Member: 28815Members
On the flipside of that coin, what is UWE shows a screenshot of the game that looks absolutely magnificent. And they can't release a screenshot/gameplay footage of crap. But UWE knows the game is not absolutely right yet and won't be releasing it anytime soon. Won't this drive up expectations way too much? People would look at an awesome screenshot/footage and say "hey, the game is about to be completed. it looks just about done" when they don't really know how far along the pipeline the game is. Would create over-enthusiasm too early.
I was thinking of splinter cell conviction. Like how finished the game looks and got pushed back to the fiscal year 2011, for whatever reasons. Got me disappointed.
<!--quoteo(post=1748306:date=Jan 20 2010, 11:47 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 20 2010, 11:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748306"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As people don't realise how much goes in to a game and everyone is "I understand there is only 4 of them", I have to say, until you see how many people created UT3 at Epic you don't begin to understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And 8 guys in a basement made Sins of a Solar Empire.
Why do you think developers generally never release information about games or ever give release dates? Because people just complain. The 'professional' approach to PR is 'don't release anything, don't answer questions, don't let people see the game before they buy it if you can possibly avoid it, don't give them any hint of the possible imperfections in the game, try to get them to buy it by any means possible and don't give them any money back unless it would cost you more not to.'
You can either witness firsthand that game developers are not mystic creatures which commune with the spirits in order to summon games from the ether and everything does in fact have to be made and stuff takes longer than you'd think or other things turn out to need doing, basically they're like any other activity.
Or you can have bugger all information about the game to preserve the illusion, not both.
To be honest I don't really know why UWE releases as much as they do, I can't think of many benefits for them as people only ever complain about unfinished software, unless you have a background in development and are working with the developers there isn't really much useful feedback that you can provide so I can't imagine that's the reason.
The only two possibilities I can fathom for releasing information at this stage is irrational generosity or as a form of bug testing.
Just because they don't post about the game does not mean they aren't working on the game, just because they are working on the tools does not mean they aren't working towards the game because they do need the tools in order to make the game. The modellers are making more assets, I highly doubt it takes the entire programming workload to make minor GUI changes to the editor so the programmers are working on the game as well, or they suffered a serious brain injury but I think the former is more probable.
The idea that no work is being done on the game just doesn't make sense, I suppose it's possible that if you didn't know anything about game development you might think that it takes a lot of time to make the small changes you see, but that doesn't account for the idea that the team would actually spend time doing something that didn't in any way contribute directly to the release and success of the game, the game has to do well because otherwise UWE is in deep crap, the game needs to do well or nobody gets any money. Game development is supposed to make money so you can be quite confident that as long as it is possible to make some money out of it UWE will work to get it done, as will any game developer because that's what development is for.
<!--quoteo(post=1748423:date=Jan 21 2010, 04:17 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 21 2010, 04:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748423"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To be honest I don't really know why UWE releases as much as they do<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To convince people to purchase an unfinished game, in order to finance it's continuing development. I can't see this happening at all without a significant amount of information released, and honestly I'm surprised at the success they've had only releasing what they have.
<!--quoteo(post=1748426:date=Jan 21 2010, 04:27 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 21 2010, 04:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748426"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To convince people to purchase an unfinished game, in order to finance it's continuing development. I can't see this happening at all without a significant amount of information released, and honestly I'm surprised at the success they've had only releasing what they have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er, if they wanted to convince people to buy an unfinished game they just lie and post screenshots which suggest that the game is almost enitrely complete or spend two weeks to cobble together tech demos which only work for one level and faction and gun but which suggest, because of the limited exposure, that the game is practically finished and carefully hides all the stuff that is buggy or doesn't work yet.
You know, all the things <i>most</i> professional game companies usually do to incite preorders?
Seriously if you want to get people to buy stuff just lie a lot, or rather make everything as if it suggests that it's done when it isn't. When for example GPG posts a supreme commander 2 video a year before release and it looks perfectly playable and everything works and looks nice, you don't think they just sit on the game for a year do you? I promise you what actually happens is the tech demo version gets completely ignored and development continues on the <i>actual</i> game which barely runs on anything and has nothing connected up and which is unbalanced as all hell and which has half the stuff missing.
Games development is nothing like what end users see.
You're actually arguing that UWE isn't convincing people to buy an unfinished game, when UWE has explicitly stated that this is how they are financing development???? I don't see where you're coming from here, Chris. UWE isn't asking for pre-orders to finance development? NS2 isn't unfinished? What exactly are you arguing against?
Also, Professional game developers don't offer their games for pre-order before they are complete. In fact, they don't offer them for pre-order <i>period</i>, distributors do that to protect consumers from desirable products being sold out.
<!--quoteo(post=1748428:date=Jan 21 2010, 04:39 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 21 2010, 04:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're actually arguing that UWE isn't convincing people to buy an unfinished game, when UWE has explicitly stated that this is how they are financing development???? I don't see where you're coming from here, Chris. UWE isn't asking for pre-orders to finance development? NS2 isn't unfinished? What exactly are you arguing against?
Also, Professional game developers don't offer their games for pre-order before they are complete. In fact, they don't offer them for pre-order <i>period</i>, distributors do that to protect consumers from desirable products being sold out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pointing out that either everyone at UWE is really strange and for some reason thinks that pointing out exactly how unfinished the game is will coerce people to preorder it MORE than being deceptive like every other game developer in existence does, or they are releasing stuff because they are really strange and for some reason want to give people an accurate idea of what they're paying for or feel some bizzare sense of loyalty to their fans or something. The idea that the only reason for the bizzarely generous information release is to get money doesn't make much sense because it's not really a very good way of doing it.
Valve puts its games up for preorder quite a while before release as I recall, as does EA and other publisher/developer combos. EA certainly does. Getting money before the game is released is a dream for any publisher, as getting money after release is often hard because after release people have played it and know how crap it probably is.
Oh I get it, you're arguing against a straw man :D
<!--quoteo(post=1748431:date=Jan 21 2010, 04:48 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 21 2010, 04:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748431"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Valve puts its games up for preorder quite a while before release as I recall, as does EA and other publisher/developer combos<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Before <b>release</b> (obviously, or else it's not a pre-order) but not before the game is done. It happens between when the game is complete and when it is shipped to stores. The only exception I can think of is Valve's "purchase TF2 and get on the Beta" promotion.
<!--quoteo(post=1748426:date=Jan 21 2010, 04:27 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 21 2010, 04:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748426"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To convince people to purchase an unfinished game, in order to finance it's continuing development. I can't see this happening at all without a significant amount of information released, and honestly I'm surprised at the success they've had only releasing what they have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It could be they wanted to try out the development blog style and involved their community like they did with NS1... it's just a theory.
No its just means we have alot of trust in these people...
We are all fans of NS1 and in fact I still play once and awhile (sadly skulking and fading skills suffer alot because of this...) but I still like the design and the base Idea behind the game. I mean its really one of the games where you have to work togheter if you even hope to win.... (don't get me wrong there have been a few rambos and super aliens pretty much win the game for us but still its kinda rare)
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1748434:date=Jan 21 2010, 09:50 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 21 2010, 09:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748434"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Before <b>release</b> (obviously, or else it's not a pre-order) but not before the game is done. It happens between when the game is complete and when it is shipped to stores. The only exception I can think of is Valve's "purchase TF2 and get on the Beta" promotion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is the real source of the problem. In my experience, companies offer pre-orders on games that are complete or mostly complete. This generally translates into a release date within a month or two of the pre-order offer.
What UWE offered was more of an "investment" pre-order so that they could raise money via their fans rather than traditional routes (loans, investors, etc). I can see how someone who is only partially following NS2's development could think:
pre-order fall 2009 = game release before 2010
I think they could of used some other term (or put very visible qualifiers that this isn't your standard pre-order) on the pre-order page.
Even the major kings of greed like EA do this sort of thing. I preordered Battlefield 1943 back in June of 2009, the game got delayed, they still ask you to preorder even though they say they have no clue when it's coming out. Not that I really give a crap about it anymore, but that's for other reasons.
The point is, I preordered NS2 damn well knowing that it was TBA. Why? Because I support indie development, and because I love NS.
Again: We're not complaining about the game delay, but the absence of screenshots and/or gameplay videos. We all know how easy it is to record a 30 seconds video with FRAPS, so there must be a critical reason for UWE that blocks them from releasing some media content to the public. And the worst thing is that <b>they don't even bother to tell us <u>why they don't release screenshots or anything</u>.</b> <b><u>THAT</u></b> is the reason why so many people are mad with UWE.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
This reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me. He went off to Africa and on his trip he visited a remote village. On arriving to the village he was told by the elders to not give money to the children. "Why is that?" he asked, the elders answered "because we do not make our children beggars."
<!--quoteo(post=1748482:date=Jan 22 2010, 02:35 AM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Jan 22 2010, 02:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me. He went off to Africa and on his trip he visited a remote village. On arriving to the village he was told by the elders to not give money to the children. "Why is that?" he asked, the elders answered "because we do not make our children beggars."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is not Africa.
<!--quoteo(post=1748474:date=Jan 22 2010, 01:22 AM:name=davidcavalcante)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (davidcavalcante @ Jan 22 2010, 01:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748474"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again: We're not complaining about the game delay, but the absence of screenshots and/or gameplay videos. We all know how easy it is to record a 30 seconds video with FRAPS, so there must be a critical reason for UWE that blocks them from releasing some media content to the public. And the worst thing is that <b>they don't even bother to tell us <u>why they don't release screenshots or anything</u>.</b> <b><u>THAT</u></b> is the reason why so many people are mad with UWE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because there is very probably nothing to record. From the sounds of it they're still building all the features, there's no point sticking the game together until you have all the features because you will have to take it to bits again to add more of them. They don't have a dedicated GUI artist/programmer as far as I know so it's not like they programmers can just take time off from building the fundamental parts of the game to make a pretty little GUI just so you can record it. Hell the latest twitter update shows they're still working on the menus, how much of a playable game do you think there is?
They have recorded demos of the engine, and you have a fully realtime demo of the editor which is representative of the engine rendering technology and has a crapload of enigne assets. What more do you want? You have access to loads of the assets and you've seen videos of planned stuff not in the editor. I don't really see that there is much else to be shown or any reason for it to be shown if there was, UWE does not benefit from having everyone on the forums pick every single thing they release to bits so why release anything? Again I am forced to conclude it is some bizzare sense of altruism that drives most of the information freedom.
When I pre-ordered the pack, I had absolutely no clue this crapola was going on. The site said instant alpha access, I don't visit the forums and I had not heard of UnknownWorlds getting demolished financially from any news site such as Slashdot or Digg. But now you're trying to tell me that I "invested" in a company? No, I pre-ordered a game that said I'd get alpha access right after pre-ordering. <!--quoteo(post=1748350:date=Jan 21 2010, 07:38 AM:name=davidcavalcante)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (davidcavalcante @ Jan 21 2010, 07:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748350"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree. But, just to remember, most of the people that complains about UWE wants <b>screenshots, short videos, anything that shows the real game, anything that shows a marine shooting a skulk and blood on the ground etc</b>. I really think that they could do that, since they've stated that the game has a lot of stuff already done. Tell me: <b>How difficult is it to take a quick screenshot of a skulk and a marine fighting? How difficult is it to take a quick screenshot of a marine beside an IP, an Armory and a Command Center? We just want more contents of the game, <u>not the game itself, since, I believe, most of the community won't mind to wait a bit more for a great game</u>.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Any media would be better than what's going on right now. <!--quoteo(post=1748434:date=Jan 21 2010, 07:50 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 21 2010, 07:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748434"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh I get it, you're arguing against a straw man :D
Before <b>release</b> (obviously, or else it's not a pre-order) but not before the game is done. It happens between when the game is complete and when it is shipped to stores. The only exception I can think of is Valve's "purchase TF2 and get on the Beta" promotion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I remember TF2 beta. I got home, saw the promotion, pre-ordered orange box, and TF2 beta was downloading away. I seriously though this would the same kind of deal due to how the marketing was handeled. <!--quoteo(post=1748495:date=Jan 22 2010, 05:24 AM:name=Ligerio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ligerio @ Jan 22 2010, 05:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748495"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is not Africa.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Miss the point more, please. <!--quoteo(post=1748318:date=Jan 21 2010, 03:28 AM:name=Hoodedsniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hoodedsniper @ Jan 21 2010, 03:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys do relize that an alpha build of the game will be NOTHING like the release, and it will be buggy/glitchy/unoptimized/broken/messed up/sad/depressing/unfinished.
Betas are bad enough but an alpha is 10x worse.
Shut up and realize the alpha wont be out for a few months. Now go play ns1 or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who gives a ######, we just want <b>something</b> to demonstrate they're not pulling a DNF on us.
<!--quoteo(post=1748626:date=Jan 23 2010, 07:00 AM:name=nikomo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nikomo @ Jan 23 2010, 07:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748626"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who gives a ######, we just want <b>something</b> to demonstrate they're not pulling a DNF on us.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> weekly updates and improvements to the editor
@nikomo <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I pre-ordered a game that said I'd get alpha access right after pre-ordering.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't seem to find a UWE quote thats says instant access, would you mind linking that?
I think we've beaten this dead horse right? UWE doesn't rely on traditional financial development cycles that you find in big publishers, if you do some digging you can find some insight into their business plan and goals.
Comments
Although yes for example you have Blizzard with a Starcraft/Diabo/Warcraft team, then staffing etc.
Equally though, UWE, have <10 people to do all of that. In the grand scale of things, one UWE team member has to be worth 20 or 30 people compared to other companies in the market in order to compete.
Betas are bad enough but an alpha is 10x worse.
Shut up and realize the alpha wont be out for a few months. Now go play ns1 or something.
And the thread was coming back on track nicely with some decent talk thanks to Thaldarin's input...
About the team's size: They do accomplish a great deal for such a small group of people. They don't have the luxury of being able to focus on one "job" (i.e. Charlie doing customer support, design and coding (and probably more)) and this, in my opinion, shows the devotion they put into making NS2.
For all the long time fans you will already remember how many of us told Charlie + Co. we'd pre-order just to give them some extra funds. I don't think that was even that long ago that they mentioned funding was a problem and dozens from this community immediately offered their financial support. I was one of those people.
Now, for all those new guys (and the occasional female) I suggest either checking the old posts to understand how this situation came about, or just stfu. The majority of paying customers are fine with the way things are right now.
If your not even a paying customer and you are of the opinion that something is "unfair", you reserve the right to offer that opinion but like many others, you will be ignored or accused of being a troll.
Too bad huh?
Although yes for example you have Blizzard with a Starcraft/Diabo/Warcraft team, then staffing etc.
Equally though, UWE, have <10 people to do all of that. In the grand scale of things, one UWE team member has to be worth 20 or 30 people compared to other companies in the market in order to compete.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think they are 11 in UWE now aren't they?
Valve was about 30 people when they released Half-Life, but I heard they started the project way under that number.
For all the long time fans you will already remember how many of us told Charlie + Co. we'd pre-order just to give them some extra funds. I don't think that was even that long ago that they mentioned funding was a problem and dozens from this community immediately offered their financial support. I was one of those people.
Now, for all those new guys (and the occasional female) I suggest either checking the old posts to understand how this situation came about, or just stfu. The majority of paying customers are fine with the way things are right now.
If your not even a paying customer and you are of the opinion that something is "unfair", you reserve the right to offer that opinion but like many others, you will be ignored or accused of being a troll.
Too bad huh?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
But, just to remember, most of the people that complains about UWE wants <b>screenshots, short videos, anything that shows the real game, anything that shows a marine shooting a skulk and blood on the ground etc</b>. I really think that they could do that, since they've stated that the game has a lot of stuff already done.
Tell me: <b>How difficult is it to take a quick screenshot of a skulk and a marine fighting? How difficult is it to take a quick screenshot of a marine beside an IP, an Armory and a Command Center? We just want more contents of the game, <u>not the game itself, since, I believe, most of the community won't mind to wait a bit more for a great game</u>.</b>
I was thinking of splinter cell conviction. Like how finished the game looks and got pushed back to the fiscal year 2011, for whatever reasons. Got me disappointed.
And 8 guys in a basement made Sins of a Solar Empire.
Why do you think developers generally never release information about games or ever give release dates? Because people just complain. The 'professional' approach to PR is 'don't release anything, don't answer questions, don't let people see the game before they buy it if you can possibly avoid it, don't give them any hint of the possible imperfections in the game, try to get them to buy it by any means possible and don't give them any money back unless it would cost you more not to.'
You can either witness firsthand that game developers are not mystic creatures which commune with the spirits in order to summon games from the ether and everything does in fact have to be made and stuff takes longer than you'd think or other things turn out to need doing, basically they're like any other activity.
Or you can have bugger all information about the game to preserve the illusion, not both.
To be honest I don't really know why UWE releases as much as they do, I can't think of many benefits for them as people only ever complain about unfinished software, unless you have a background in development and are working with the developers there isn't really much useful feedback that you can provide so I can't imagine that's the reason.
The only two possibilities I can fathom for releasing information at this stage is irrational generosity or as a form of bug testing.
Just because they don't post about the game does not mean they aren't working on the game, just because they are working on the tools does not mean they aren't working towards the game because they do need the tools in order to make the game. The modellers are making more assets, I highly doubt it takes the entire programming workload to make minor GUI changes to the editor so the programmers are working on the game as well, or they suffered a serious brain injury but I think the former is more probable.
The idea that no work is being done on the game just doesn't make sense, I suppose it's possible that if you didn't know anything about game development you might think that it takes a lot of time to make the small changes you see, but that doesn't account for the idea that the team would actually spend time doing something that didn't in any way contribute directly to the release and success of the game, the game has to do well because otherwise UWE is in deep crap, the game needs to do well or nobody gets any money. Game development is supposed to make money so you can be quite confident that as long as it is possible to make some money out of it UWE will work to get it done, as will any game developer because that's what development is for.
To convince people to purchase an unfinished game, in order to finance it's continuing development. I can't see this happening at all without a significant amount of information released, and honestly I'm surprised at the success they've had only releasing what they have.
Er, if they wanted to convince people to buy an unfinished game they just lie and post screenshots which suggest that the game is almost enitrely complete or spend two weeks to cobble together tech demos which only work for one level and faction and gun but which suggest, because of the limited exposure, that the game is practically finished and carefully hides all the stuff that is buggy or doesn't work yet.
You know, all the things <i>most</i> professional game companies usually do to incite preorders?
Seriously if you want to get people to buy stuff just lie a lot, or rather make everything as if it suggests that it's done when it isn't. When for example GPG posts a supreme commander 2 video a year before release and it looks perfectly playable and everything works and looks nice, you don't think they just sit on the game for a year do you? I promise you what actually happens is the tech demo version gets completely ignored and development continues on the <i>actual</i> game which barely runs on anything and has nothing connected up and which is unbalanced as all hell and which has half the stuff missing.
Games development is nothing like what end users see.
Also, Professional game developers don't offer their games for pre-order before they are complete. In fact, they don't offer them for pre-order <i>period</i>, distributors do that to protect consumers from desirable products being sold out.
Also, Professional game developers don't offer their games for pre-order before they are complete. In fact, they don't offer them for pre-order <i>period</i>, distributors do that to protect consumers from desirable products being sold out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pointing out that either everyone at UWE is really strange and for some reason thinks that pointing out exactly how unfinished the game is will coerce people to preorder it MORE than being deceptive like every other game developer in existence does, or they are releasing stuff because they are really strange and for some reason want to give people an accurate idea of what they're paying for or feel some bizzare sense of loyalty to their fans or something. The idea that the only reason for the bizzarely generous information release is to get money doesn't make much sense because it's not really a very good way of doing it.
Valve puts its games up for preorder quite a while before release as I recall, as does EA and other publisher/developer combos. EA certainly does. Getting money before the game is released is a dream for any publisher, as getting money after release is often hard because after release people have played it and know how crap it probably is.
<!--quoteo(post=1748431:date=Jan 21 2010, 04:48 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 21 2010, 04:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748431"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Valve puts its games up for preorder quite a while before release as I recall, as does EA and other publisher/developer combos<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Before <b>release</b> (obviously, or else it's not a pre-order) but not before the game is done. It happens between when the game is complete and when it is shipped to stores. The only exception I can think of is Valve's "purchase TF2 and get on the Beta" promotion.
It could be they wanted to try out the development blog style and involved their community like they did with NS1... it's just a theory.
We are all fans of NS1 and in fact I still play once and awhile (sadly skulking and fading skills suffer alot because of this...) but I still like the design and the base Idea behind the game. I mean its really one of the games where you have to work togheter if you even hope to win.... (don't get me wrong there have been a few rambos and super aliens pretty much win the game for us but still its kinda rare)
I think this is the real source of the problem. In my experience, companies offer pre-orders on games that are complete or mostly complete. This generally translates into a release date within a month or two of the pre-order offer.
What UWE offered was more of an "investment" pre-order so that they could raise money via their fans rather than traditional routes (loans, investors, etc). I can see how someone who is only partially following NS2's development could think:
pre-order fall 2009 = game release before 2010
I think they could of used some other term (or put very visible qualifiers that this isn't your standard pre-order) on the pre-order page.
The point is, I preordered NS2 damn well knowing that it was TBA. Why? Because I support indie development, and because I love NS.
And the worst thing is that <b>they don't even bother to tell us <u>why they don't release screenshots or anything</u>.</b> <b><u>THAT</u></b> is the reason why so many people are mad with UWE.
This is not Africa.
And the worst thing is that <b>they don't even bother to tell us <u>why they don't release screenshots or anything</u>.</b> <b><u>THAT</u></b> is the reason why so many people are mad with UWE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because there is very probably nothing to record. From the sounds of it they're still building all the features, there's no point sticking the game together until you have all the features because you will have to take it to bits again to add more of them. They don't have a dedicated GUI artist/programmer as far as I know so it's not like they programmers can just take time off from building the fundamental parts of the game to make a pretty little GUI just so you can record it. Hell the latest twitter update shows they're still working on the menus, how much of a playable game do you think there is?
They have recorded demos of the engine, and you have a fully realtime demo of the editor which is representative of the engine rendering technology and has a crapload of enigne assets. What more do you want? You have access to loads of the assets and you've seen videos of planned stuff not in the editor. I don't really see that there is much else to be shown or any reason for it to be shown if there was, UWE does not benefit from having everyone on the forums pick every single thing they release to bits so why release anything? Again I am forced to conclude it is some bizzare sense of altruism that drives most of the information freedom.
<!--quoteo(post=1748350:date=Jan 21 2010, 07:38 AM:name=davidcavalcante)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (davidcavalcante @ Jan 21 2010, 07:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748350"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree.
But, just to remember, most of the people that complains about UWE wants <b>screenshots, short videos, anything that shows the real game, anything that shows a marine shooting a skulk and blood on the ground etc</b>. I really think that they could do that, since they've stated that the game has a lot of stuff already done.
Tell me: <b>How difficult is it to take a quick screenshot of a skulk and a marine fighting? How difficult is it to take a quick screenshot of a marine beside an IP, an Armory and a Command Center? We just want more contents of the game, <u>not the game itself, since, I believe, most of the community won't mind to wait a bit more for a great game</u>.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any media would be better than what's going on right now.
<!--quoteo(post=1748434:date=Jan 21 2010, 07:50 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 21 2010, 07:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748434"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh I get it, you're arguing against a straw man :D
Before <b>release</b> (obviously, or else it's not a pre-order) but not before the game is done. It happens between when the game is complete and when it is shipped to stores. The only exception I can think of is Valve's "purchase TF2 and get on the Beta" promotion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember TF2 beta. I got home, saw the promotion, pre-ordered orange box, and TF2 beta was downloading away. I seriously though this would the same kind of deal due to how the marketing was handeled.
<!--quoteo(post=1748495:date=Jan 22 2010, 05:24 AM:name=Ligerio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ligerio @ Jan 22 2010, 05:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748495"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is not Africa.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Miss the point more, please.
<!--quoteo(post=1748318:date=Jan 21 2010, 03:28 AM:name=Hoodedsniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hoodedsniper @ Jan 21 2010, 03:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys do relize that an alpha build of the game will be NOTHING like the release, and it will be buggy/glitchy/unoptimized/broken/messed up/sad/depressing/unfinished.
Betas are bad enough but an alpha is 10x worse.
Shut up and realize the alpha wont be out for a few months. Now go play ns1 or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who gives a ######, we just want <b>something</b> to demonstrate they're not pulling a DNF on us.
weekly updates and improvements to the editor
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I pre-ordered a game that said I'd get alpha access right after pre-ordering.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't seem to find a UWE quote thats says instant access, would you mind linking that?
Why don't we wait and see what comes up?