<!--quoteo(post=1742858:date=Dec 7 2009, 04:24 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flayra @ Dec 7 2009, 04:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Sizes</b> · All sizes are in inches · Primary routes 160 to 192 wide, 160 tall · Secondary route entrances/exits are 80 wide, 128 tall · Wall textures are 128 tall · Floor textures are 128 wide · The male marine is 77 tall · MASCs are approximately 100 long and 50 tall · Doors are 100 by 100 · The Onos is 120 tall, 90 wide and 120 long (he must crouch to get through doorways)
<b>Avoid Level-Over-Level</b> Commander Mode is the ability for Commander players to play the game from a top-down view. This is handled automatically by the game but does place special limitations on level designers: maps can't have “level over level†geometry. If one room is built on top of another, the commander can't give orders in or see into the lower room. Because of this problem, overlapping hallways and areas that cross over other areas should generally be avoided. Girders, catwalks, balconies, pipes, and other smaller geometry can overlap as long as they don't really block commander access to the area below them.
<b>Q&A Update</b> - Marine and alien start locations are both fixed. There are NOT three hive rooms like in NS1. - For vents, use our special vent models (they are coming in an update soon). - Nope, we're not supporting multiple levels for Commanders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow ok... I knew he was big, but I thought he would fit through the small door without bending down... should have guessed from the trailer tho... Could we have a player start style model for the Onos in the next update. Just so we have a better idea of how big he is in our maps. Even if it is just a place holder, or a box that is the right size and has a line at the top to show how tall he is crouching.
I think I may have to scrap/change two thirds of my current map to fit in with the sizes, I had expected to change it a bit anyway, so thats all cool.
<!--quoteo(post=1742937:date=Dec 7 2009, 11:35 PM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Daworm @ Dec 7 2009, 11:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll go hunting for the comment, the search keeps bugging out on me.
EDIT: Looks like an update to the First Post corrects this information.
*Marine and alien start locations are both fixed. There are NOT three hive rooms like in NS1. So does that mean that all 3 hives/CCs will be in the same room?
I would have though you'd have the ability to build them at seperate tech points in another room (pre-defined rooms that is)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No I think thats what Tech Points are all about... or did he mean that there is only one hive and it just upgrades????? I was really wrong about this though, slightly confused about it now. I thought, based on the Tech Point post, that the Tech Points where the hive/CC rooms... lol ...and that spawns would change each time, which meant two games would never be the same, just like alot of RTS.
Guess not. Just one MS and one Hive and a load of TP and RTs...
...Map redesign time... Shorter, but with higher ceilings.
EDIT: Just took an Onos sized block for a walk through my map, I think I may only scrap/change a quarter of it now :)
<!--quoteo(post=1743061:date=Dec 8 2009, 04:32 PM:name=Karrde)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Karrde @ Dec 8 2009, 04:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, all of this talk about the way the entities play has got me thinking. Ok, so Spark is supposed to be insanely modular, right? So what about the capacity to program in or script custom entities into a map? Traditionally, we have to code this stuff into the mod or program itself, right? And supposedly spark is supposed to iterate on the fly? Would it not be possible to have a custom map come with some file that autoexecutes and writes its own bit into the engine in its own area, only coming into play when called for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes these capabilities were mentioned in past NS2 blog postings:
Custom scripts were apparently to be included with the map. Dunno how that works if you've got conflicting changes in, say, a weapon script - map says LMGs have infinite ammo, mod says LMGs have 1 shot but it fires Siege Cannon bullets, you get... which?
So if I make doors purposefully too small for onos its still ok? Obveously it will be only in some places in the map and there will still be a main route which onos can take. But making say a door that is 90x50. Will this cause any major problems?
I think the idea is to have secondary paths still usable by onos, although crouching. But if your 90x50 doors were mostly cosmetic or additional secondary routes I can't see it causing a big issue... its up to how you feel the flow works. Where do you not want onos to move easily, does the non-onos door usability give marines a huge advantage in that area?
Also, keep in mind that you can't use the functionality of the destructable/weldable cycle on doors not matching the above guidelines.
<a href="http://img692.imageshack.us/i/teste1u.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8383/teste1u.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://img15.imageshack.us/i/teste2e.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/24/teste2e.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> good or not for the commander view ?
Should be pretty good, as your corridor comes to a narrow point at the top the above lattice only covers the centre section of the corridor and thus if the commander goes to either side of the corridor and looks to the side of his screen he will be able to see the place covered by the lattice if looking from directly above.
<!--quoteo(post=1743175:date=Dec 9 2009, 12:55 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Dec 9 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743175"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So if I make doors purposefully too small for onos its still ok? Obveously it will be only in some places in the map and there will still be a main route which onos can take. But making say a door that is 90x50. Will this cause any major problems?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you want to keep an onos out of an area of the map, it may work better to use ladders, though that would block gorges too (unless you gestate in that area)
I want to block the onos because it would be illogical for them to walk over the narrow and flimsey catwalks in that area and because I dont want them to be there.
<!--quoteo(post=1743246:date=Dec 10 2009, 04:43 AM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Dec 10 2009, 04:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1743246"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont want to block gorges.
I want to block the onos because it would be illogical for them to walk over the narrow and flimsey catwalks in that area and because I dont want them to be there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keep in mind that infestation may allow them to be there after it 'rolls' over your area... ladders might work at the start, but really I'd only count on doors smaller than 90x50 to keep them out. (I've been planning around the effects of possible excessive DI buildup).
Map file in the picture attached below. Marine model is positioned at (0,0,0), all textures are scaled to 1, have zero shift and rotation for all rooms.
So no more trying to build a room that half your props don't fit in, or refuse to align with one another.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Areas that can be closed off for gameplay, such as through the use of closed/welded doors must use the the provided door model. This is for multiple purposes, such as correct sizing, and because there will be model specific requirements and animations, for things such as the doors being able to be welded, and Onos being able to break them down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was wondering if resized doors can still be welded shut?
It seems weird if you can weld some minor maintenance access shut, but a major security bulkhead is open like a swingdoor...
I really need to know if Alien infestation can propagate over props. If we make an area with lots of props, is it going to cause issues with infestation? For example can infestation cover a rock prop?
Even if the metric system is much more efficient, I don't think that it really needs to be that way, as we don't really need the extra precision it gives.
the metric system rules ... or at least I'm more used to it, or no wait I'm playing way too much tabletop games so inches rule.
This is tearing me apart !!! :P
On the door thing, I really would like it that you don't have to crouch through every door that you can break open, it feels a bit weird to be "something" that can punch this doors in, but isn't able to make enough room for itself to walk right through it, instead it has to crouch to get through it ... thats just weird.
<!--quoteo(post=1749482:date=Jan 27 2010, 03:27 PM:name=slayer20)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (slayer20 @ Jan 27 2010, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What are the width and height of the resource tower?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In this picture I suspect it fits a box of about 80 per 80 per 80 inches... but it is not deployed so you might want to leave a good 128 per 128 square around it and well.. the height is up to you I guess.. I'd leave about 100 inches myself for the height.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe Charlie said they used inches to keep it closer to NS 1/Hammer units though even in NS the distances for way points were in meters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Half-Lifes units are neither meters nor inches - they are pixels. Texture pixels. If you do the maths to try and convert them to any unit you like, you will find, that the sizes are odd compared to the real world. But that was because the units were never meant to represent inches or meters. They are just pixels. And everything from models to textures was build around these units to make them seem fit together.
All this is different for NS2 of course, because they seem to design theire sizes to fit a real world scale.
Is it a new NS2 feature that gorges wont be able to use ladders? Because in NS1 they could.
It was meant to be based on that. However it was stated anything built to those dimensions in Hammer would look wrong in HL2 due to the rendering engine. Height was fine it was the width that looked odd.
<!--quoteo(post=1761546:date=Mar 28 2010, 07:54 PM:name=WaffleSpoon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WaffleSpoon @ Mar 28 2010, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, I believe that the Hammer Unit system is relative to the Imperial Measuring System where 1 foot is equal to 16 units in Hammer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
· All sizes are in inches
· Primary routes 160 to 192 wide, 160 tall
· Secondary route entrances/exits are 80 wide, 128 tall
· Wall textures are 128 tall
· Floor textures are 128 wide
· The male marine is 77 tall
· MASCs are approximately 100 long and 50 tall
· Doors are 100 by 100
· The Onos is 120 tall, 90 wide and 120 long (he must crouch to get through doorways)
<b>Avoid Level-Over-Level</b>
Commander Mode is the ability for Commander players to play the game from a top-down view. This is handled automatically by the game but does place special limitations on level designers: maps can't have “level over level†geometry. If one room is built on top of another, the commander can't give orders in or see into the lower room. Because of this problem, overlapping hallways and areas that cross over other areas should generally be avoided. Girders, catwalks, balconies, pipes, and other smaller geometry can overlap as long as they don't really block commander access to the area below them.
<b>Q&A Update</b>
- Marine and alien start locations are both fixed. There are NOT three hive rooms like in NS1.
- For vents, use our special vent models (they are coming in an update soon).
- Nope, we're not supporting multiple levels for Commanders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow ok... I knew he was big, but I thought he would fit through the small door without bending down... should have guessed from the trailer tho... Could we have a player start style model for the Onos in the next update. Just so we have a better idea of how big he is in our maps. Even if it is just a place holder, or a box that is the right size and has a line at the top to show how tall he is crouching.
I think I may have to scrap/change two thirds of my current map to fit in with the sizes, I had expected to change it a bit anyway, so thats all cool.
<!--quoteo(post=1742937:date=Dec 7 2009, 11:35 PM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Daworm @ Dec 7 2009, 11:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll go hunting for the comment, the search keeps bugging out on me.
EDIT:
Looks like an update to the First Post corrects this information.
*Marine and alien start locations are both fixed. There are NOT three hive rooms like in NS1.
So does that mean that all 3 hives/CCs will be in the same room?
I would have though you'd have the ability to build them at seperate tech points in another room (pre-defined rooms that is)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No I think thats what Tech Points are all about... or did he mean that there is only one hive and it just upgrades?????
I was really wrong about this though, slightly confused about it now. I thought, based on the Tech Point post, that the Tech Points where the hive/CC rooms... lol ...and that spawns would change each time, which meant two games would never be the same, just like alot of RTS.
Guess not. Just one MS and one Hive and a load of TP and RTs...
...Map redesign time... Shorter, but with higher ceilings.
EDIT: Just took an Onos sized block for a walk through my map, I think I may only scrap/change a quarter of it now :)
Yes these capabilities were mentioned in past NS2 blog postings:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2007/06/client_side_scripting_and_weapons" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2007/06/c...ing_and_weapons</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2007/06/client_side_scripting_and_weapons_continued" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2007/06/c...apons_continued</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2008/7/engine_questions_and_answers" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2008/7/en...ons_and_answers</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2009/8/modding_q_a" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2009/8/modding_q_a</a>
Obveously it will be only in some places in the map and there will still be a main route which onos can take.
But making say a door that is 90x50.
Will this cause any major problems?
Also, keep in mind that you can't use the functionality of the destructable/weldable cycle on doors not matching the above guidelines.
<a href="http://img15.imageshack.us/i/teste2e.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/24/teste2e.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
good or not for the commander view ?
Obveously it will be only in some places in the map and there will still be a main route which onos can take.
But making say a door that is 90x50.
Will this cause any major problems?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to keep an onos out of an area of the map, it may work better to use ladders, though that would block gorges too (unless you gestate in that area)
I want to block the onos because it would be illogical for them to walk over the narrow and flimsey catwalks in that area and because I dont want them to be there.
I want to block the onos because it would be illogical for them to walk over the narrow and flimsey catwalks in that area and because I dont want them to be there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keep in mind that infestation may allow them to be there after it 'rolls' over your area... ladders might work at the start, but really I'd only count on doors smaller than 90x50 to keep them out. (I've been planning around the effects of possible excessive DI buildup).
<img src="http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9545/guidef.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Map file in the picture attached below. Marine model is positioned at (0,0,0), all textures are scaled to 1, have zero shift and rotation for all rooms.
So no more trying to build a room that half your props don't fit in, or refuse to align with one another.
I was wondering if resized doors can still be welded shut?
It seems weird if you can weld some minor maintenance access shut, but a major security bulkhead is open like a swingdoor...
Was also wondering if the .level was actually treated as a model though as well?
And even in America, almost all technical fields have made the jump to the metric system ( even NASA on all new projects ).
my opinion.
the metric system rules ... or at least I'm more used to it, or no wait I'm playing way too much tabletop games so inches rule.
This is tearing me apart !!! :P
On the door thing, I really would like it that you don't have to crouch through every door that you can break open, it feels a bit weird to be "something" that can punch this doors in, but isn't able to make enough room for itself to walk right through it, instead it has to crouch to get through it ... thats just weird.
In this picture I suspect it fits a box of about 80 per 80 per 80 inches... but it is not deployed so you might want to leave a good 128 per 128 square around it and well.. the height is up to you I guess.. I'd leave about 100 inches myself for the height.
<img src="http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9499/rttt2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Half-Lifes units are neither meters nor inches - they are pixels. Texture pixels. If you do the maths to try and convert them to any unit you like, you will find, that the sizes are odd compared to the real world. But that was because the units were never meant to represent inches or meters. They are just pixels. And everything from models to textures was build around these units to make them seem fit together.
All this is different for NS2 of course, because they seem to design theire sizes to fit a real world scale.
Is it a new NS2 feature that gorges wont be able to use ladders? Because in NS1 they could.
Hammer = 0.75:1
Spark = 1:1