So much focus on the tool and less about the game.
Ligerio
Join Date: 2009-12-30 Member: 69825Members
Join Date: 2009-12-30 Member: 69825Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Unhappy</div>I see there is alot of focus on the tool to create maps for NS2, you read about it in the NS2 General Discussion and you read it in the news section of the main site for the game.
<b>Then you have the last "newest" trailer of the game saying game is coming in the fall of 2009</b>.
We are in 2010 now, so to be honest I feel we could end up by getting the game in 2011.
<b>Point is..</b> when you have on your offical site, not Amazon or any other game selling sites but THE offical site for NS2 -
Selling pre-orders with the latest "newest" trailer showing fall of 2009 as release date.
But of course it says, when the game comes out in the pre-order, of course. But still.. trailer must have made some impact on
if you buy the pre-order or not, maybe.
Despite that, there is no offical words of any release date and why not it came out in the fall of 2009.
And when you only get to read about this tool and they set focus AWAY from the game itself, makes me even more concerne.
Even when it's not even in alpha testing, yes.
They seem eager for people to pre-order to get this tool, is the only product that they have that you can get right away.
That is good for the fan. But still, this seem for me a bit "why would I pre-order? "non super fan" just a ordinary fan. I would not pre-order.
I'm just sharing this because soon, in matter of weeks I will forget about this game again because there is nothing that is keeping me here right now.
It's the tool talk, it's the tool news, it's the old date "fall of 2009" and a small team working on this with no alpha going on and me asking myself.
Why the hell say "fall of 2009" when it's not even here right now or even close to alpha? I just get the feeling they wanted people to feel more happy about pre-order as some time ago fall of 2009 wasn't that long waiting.
Just my thought.
Go ahead and start flaming me, as most do when they get some people opinions that is alot different and their own opinion.
<b>Then you have the last "newest" trailer of the game saying game is coming in the fall of 2009</b>.
We are in 2010 now, so to be honest I feel we could end up by getting the game in 2011.
<b>Point is..</b> when you have on your offical site, not Amazon or any other game selling sites but THE offical site for NS2 -
Selling pre-orders with the latest "newest" trailer showing fall of 2009 as release date.
But of course it says, when the game comes out in the pre-order, of course. But still.. trailer must have made some impact on
if you buy the pre-order or not, maybe.
Despite that, there is no offical words of any release date and why not it came out in the fall of 2009.
And when you only get to read about this tool and they set focus AWAY from the game itself, makes me even more concerne.
Even when it's not even in alpha testing, yes.
They seem eager for people to pre-order to get this tool, is the only product that they have that you can get right away.
That is good for the fan. But still, this seem for me a bit "why would I pre-order? "non super fan" just a ordinary fan. I would not pre-order.
I'm just sharing this because soon, in matter of weeks I will forget about this game again because there is nothing that is keeping me here right now.
It's the tool talk, it's the tool news, it's the old date "fall of 2009" and a small team working on this with no alpha going on and me asking myself.
Why the hell say "fall of 2009" when it's not even here right now or even close to alpha? I just get the feeling they wanted people to feel more happy about pre-order as some time ago fall of 2009 wasn't that long waiting.
Just my thought.
Go ahead and start flaming me, as most do when they get some people opinions that is alot different and their own opinion.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Atleast give a date or some tweets about non-tools work that is done.
i have already pre-order, cuz i love NS and wants to help the team, but remember we are not all mappers.
But thanks to all of us devoted fans and preorders we will now get a more complete better game with the dynamic infestation etc. etc. I can certainly wait longer for that.
But I can see the point of the non-mapping inclined people. There hasn't been much in terms of game related news in quite some time now.
Perhaps the Lerk reveal would be in order sometime soon, me pesonally I'd settle for just another screenshot ingame.
Ranting gets you no where.
We all know that's not true. In a few weeks you'll still be raged about them releasing updated tools.
2. Games will more (good) features and fewer bugs are better than games which have fewer features and more bugs.
3. Therefore, a longer development time could mean a better game.
This is not complicated logic, folks.
2. Games will more (good) features and fewer bugs are better than games which have fewer features and more bugs.
3. Therefore, a longer development time could mean a better game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First the game have to come into alpha so we can <u>start</u> <i>finding</i> the bugs.
<!--quoteo(post=1747723:date=Jan 17 2010, 11:13 PM:name=Kompatriot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kompatriot @ Jan 17 2010, 11:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is not complicated logic, folks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you heard of Duke Nukem Forever? I am sure you can use the same logic there!
<!--quoteo(post=1747719:date=Jan 17 2010, 10:45 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 17 2010, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're not happy just ask for a refund and I'm sure UWE will be only happy to remove the CD Key you currently have from the database and refund you the $20 or $40 you paid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have not pre-ordered.
Now still.. last offical saying is release will be fall of 2009, I can't find any other offical saying why fall of 2009 was "marketing" as release date + that they felt positive enough to put out a pre-order on a game that had a "false" release date and no further update on that.
(( Imagine you could pre-order Diablo 3 or StarCraft 2 from the offical site Blizzard.com - and they would have a trailer saying "Fall of 2009" but then the game did not come in fall of 2009. What then? They now say "we don't know when - but it's coming" !?))
<i>If you don't understand the point in what I wrote there, forget about it. My point is simply giving a pre-order on offical site with a trailer with a release date give people false idea when it's coming - to meet that day when it was suppose to come - and yet not come.. and nobody have a clue..</i>
I'm not sure if it's even legal to put out a OFFICAL trailer with release date "Fall of 2009" + a pre-order setup.
Sure on the pre-order it says "when the game comes".. or something.. | But still..
soon? i heard this kind of think ago when i pre ordered on june/09
i will not complain or discuss i just want to say that i regret buying it, sorry.
i dont like being fooled
nice post anyway
but at the same time peopel that are new to NS and NS2 will need proper gameplay videos and screenshots to draw them in. (and while i know the game is being developed in parallel with the editor tools, new people won't know that if they aren't being told on the front page)
I for one actually agree, i think UWE should take some minutes off a day and tell us whats going on, with the game, not the tools =)
UWE Dosent have the same luxury as Blizzard does, they HAVE to be more active to not loose customers and those "maybe" buyers.
What happened to the podcasts? (i kinda liked em :P)
Blizzard already has a devote fanbase that should more than pay off the game development costs at launch =)
Btw, im not talking about Screenshots of Videos, thats not the only way to update!
Talk to the users, make a post on the forums, tell us what you had for lunch and what idea you had when you ate your french fries :P
Furthermore, have you not considered that their release and continual maintenance of the editor actually IS them working on the game? If there are card/vendor/driver-specific glitches with editor rendering, don't you think those same problems would show up in-game?
i will not complain or discuss i just want to say that i regret buying it, sorry.
i dont like being fooled
nice post anyway<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Phase 1 - You see a game product that is in the making.
Phase 2 - <u>You see a game trailer with the message "Fall of 2009" on the Offical website.</u>
Phase 3 - <u>You see a pre-order button on the Offical website.</u>
Phase 4 - <u>You pre-order with the assumption you will recieve this game product in "Fall of 2009".</u>
Phase 5 - You are in the <u>year 2010 without the game product.</u>
Phase 6 - You have <u>paid for a game that have no release date</u> <b>ANYMORE</b>.
Phase 7 - You realize the game release is TBA - (To Be Announced).
<b>Phase 8 - Is this <i>FAIR</i> marketing and selling?</b>
Phase 9 - "Look under the box." From the Offical website now:
<i>I NEED MORE INFORMATION!
OK, here goes: We have <u>no exact date</u> for the <u>alpha or beta</u>. We're not sure if you will be able to run servers for the alpha or beta. You'll always be able to re-download the game even if not through Steam. NS2 will probably use Steamworks for your friends list, even if you're not playing it through Steam. It will auto-update whether standalone or through Steam.</i>
Phase 10 - <u>You go</u> *<b>Why </b>in devils name did you <b>marketing </b>the <b>game </b>with a <b>Offical </b>trailer saying "<b>Fall of 2009</b>" + having option to <b>pre-order</b>?
Phase 11 - << NO answers excist, Offical say: <u>soon</u> when it's done >>
- I'm sure you can get your money back if you wanted - but that is not the case.
The case is: Why in h*ll did you put up a game that is TBA as pre-order. (NO serious game company does that!)
Just my last saying here now: This is NOT the way to act around PAYING CUSTOMERS when you do not explain WHY the game is not out "Fall of 2009" as they did show on their offical website. And WHY do they not try to give a more clear idea WHEN the game will be out.
Sorry for being harsh, it's just fact and my real opinion. And to you "cmc5788" I see you say alot of bla bla bla.. But you don't read what I am saying.
So if cmc5788 and anyone that say stuff like him read here:
<u>Topic is about whole marketing of their Offical "Fall of 2009" trailer + pre-order concept (TURNING INTO A) pre-order a TBA release date game!</u>
-- Because that is completly different ball game! --
If you saw a teaser trailer for a game that looked really awesome, then you immediately pre-ordered, what exactly were you expecting? The developers are busy working on the engine and game. The pre-alpha gave them a chance to get their tools out early to the pre-orderers (one of the perks for pre-ordering) and begin a small bug testing phase so they can get their tools in order as well as the backing engine. Over the course of the next couple months, they'll be adding onto these tools with the ultimate finale being the Alpha of NS2.
Thank you for pre-ordering this awesome game, but some of us have been waiting far longer than you have since pre-ordering. Some of us are enormous fans of the original mod and I for one don't want to see NS2 rushed to the shelves. Release dates get thrown around ALL the time, pre-orders available or not. It is how the video game industry goes. The game will get here when it gets here. You should have prepared yourself for this fact regardless of what release dates have been thrown about.
Also: Duke Nukem is definitely a horrible comparison here. The reason for DN:F's failure was a somewhat complex affair which has no correlation to how the NS2 team is faring.
Edit: Apparently you didn't even pre-order yet? What stake do you have in this exactly? Obvious troll is obvious?
That's about everything I need to read as you clearly have already set your mind on targeting me as a person.
But I'm sorry I don't tolerate personal attacks on any forums that is made for discussion.
Because that is the lowest you can go.
Me as a person is not up for discussion, but opinions that are different are always welcomed. But you cleary have other things in your mind.
The story says it all - but the ending means everything. "Obvious troll is obvious?" what the hell. Yeah, that's low of you! that don't tolerate people sharing a opinion that is not like yours!
-- (Added later) --
I might as well say this:
A trailer "teaser" with a ending like: "Fall of 2009" "PRE-ORDER NOW" in the same screen.
Quite miss leading if "Fall of 2009" was meaning the start of a tool or the start of alpha.
But this is already said: no date for alpha is said by the offical. - So my point is still strong in my opion. Same deal, same case.
<b>NO</b> games out there have PRE-ORDER before even knowing the date of alpha, beta.
(Plus) +
Looking at the offical trailer "teaser" knowing that <u>fact</u> and watching the end with "Fall of 2009" "PRE-ORDER NOW" ...
Is just somewhat unserious - right now.
Dont get me wrong, I dont see anything wrong with Unknownworlds delaying release for the game to make it better. Their problem lies in the lack of appropriate communication to the public who have already payed for the game. The only real way we found out about the delay was because in Fall 2009...... the game wasnt released.
I have always thought that UWE, although masters at creating a competative online game, dont have sufficient training or education in marketing their product. They seem to release things to create hype but then do nothing for a long period of time and do not release any new media until the origional hype has already died down to nothing. Just when you think NS2 might be around the corner, all you get is silence from the dev team, like they hope everyone will just forget that they missed a deadline or something. As said before, many times you hear "More in the commign weeks!" and nothing ever happens.
The trailer that still has 'Fall 2009' is really just a joke. Either make a new one, change the date to 'Coming 2010' (or 2011?) or just take it down altogether. Any potential customers who come accross it will look at it, assume its already out, see a pre order and that its not actually completed and get frustrated and leave, possibly never to return. It just creates a bad, lazy image of the company.
It seems to me that UW doesnt seem to understand that the way they are marketing doesnt quite appeal to anyone who wasnt origionaly a fan of NS. Seeing as though they have stated they have made all alien classes and have already had in-game screenshots, THIS type of media is what they need to be showing if they wish to get pre orders from other people, not just tools that a majority of the updates have been showing. I do understand however, that the effort needed to be spent on trying to acquire new players BEFORE the game is released may not be worth it, and propper marketing to these people will only start really soon or just after NS2 is fully released.
I am not writing this because I am sick of waiting for NS2, as much as I want to play it, take all neccessary time you need in order to finish it. Just, let us know what is going on, seeing as even players like myself who loved playing NS are starting to get annoyed by the lack of communication.
I am not writing this because I am sick of waiting for NS2, as much as I want to play it, take all neccessary time you need in order to finish it. Just, let us know what is going on, seeing as even players like myself who loved playing NS are starting to get annoyed by the lack of communication.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Finally, you get my point :) Thank you!
Everything you said I agree completly with.
So everyone that don't get my point, read his post.
I'm not saying they're perfect, maybe they are trying to wait until they've got something really killer to show.
Have you?
How do you know this?
Does he need to be constellation member and have 30000posts in the forum, or what?
I don't think its the job of anybody here to defend UWE than UWE itself.
I'm a fan for years, too - but i understand the TO...
i guess some fresh meat not releated to spark in a real news would calm some of us down.
communication is key.
There is really no use in the community trying to justify the way UWE is doing things, when only they themselves can quell the questions.
Let these people fester in their doubt until the product is delivered onto them.
And yes, they should update the trailer. Or just release a new one... which they are probably going to do anyway.
I'd say 3-5 months is a bit closer for Beta than Alpha.
I'd say Alpha in maybe 1-2 months. Especially after they said "We'll also be releasing our alpha to pre-orderers soon!" on the 6th.
i'd settle for an official tweet saying something about the release date of the alpha?
i'd settle for an official tweet saying something about the release date of the alpha?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, its hard to just stop having an opinion...
And about the trailer, how hard is it to either cut the last 2 seconds with the release date or even add 2 additional seconds of text saying "release date tba" or whatever? It's an official media release from a for-profit company, they do have a minimum of responsibility for its' accuracy.
Indeed.
I have pre-ordered Special Edition and didn't even download the Spark Editor, not even for testing purpose.
I didn't pre-order to map, I've pre-ordered to play the damn game.
The number of times that I used to take a look at the forums has dramatically decreased since the release of the tools. I'm simply tired of seeing so many posts asking for help with the editor and <b>absolutely nothing about the game itself. The devs didn't release any "Alien Reveal" video anymore. There's NOTHING, SIMPLY NOTHING about the game</b>.
I (still) don't regret pre-ordering NS2. But if it doesn't come out in the next 2 months, I'll be really upset with UWE.
<!--quoteo(post=1747716:date=Jan 17 2010, 04:34 PM:name=Cruor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cruor @ Jan 17 2010, 04:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747716"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Plus them improving the editor is also improving the game itself through optimisation feedback they get from the editor use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wouldn't it have been nice to get the alpha just to realize hundreds of players get the black texture / yellow bug? Ohh, your hate would have been thousandfold greater than it is now. In one of the update threads, Max mentioned Kurt was the one who added all the new functionalities to the editor. So what do you think Charlie, Max, Matt and Cory are doing? Sitting on the balcony, drinking tea and eating pancakes? Come on now.
If UWE makes a new trailer, people will complain that they aren't working on the game.
Once the alpha comes out, they'll complain that the beta still isn't there.
Once we're in beta, all the hate will be about not releasing the game already.
Once the game is out, then we'll hear the game has been in development for too long and it suffers from it.
And so is the internet.
First came the tools, then the game.
I don't get the drama here.
However, when a company lies, and doesn't provide the option of paying for the product in advance, really they have no obligation to tell the truth. You can say you're doing something and then not actually do it; that's fine. When you lie, though, and use this lie to obtain money to develop a product, this may be unethical. Indeed, everybody has the right to their money back right now; the problem is, UWE has used the money to develop a product that IS NOT what people paid for. People paid for the Natural-Selection 2 in Fall of 2009; they haven't nor will they ever receive such a product. Unfortunately, UWE has spent this money, and if everybody asked for the money back, they wouldn't have it. They could not give everybody their money back; they have cheated those who bought the product. This is different than investing in the company; these aren't investors, but UWE is treating them like they are. Thus, what UWE has done is indeed <b>illegal</b> and <b>unethical</b>.