This is driving me crazy.
Ink
Join Date: 2009-08-15 Member: 68499Members
Join Date: 2009-08-15 Member: 68499Members
The wait for ns2 and even the wait for every friday is just painstaking. Every update just gets better and better and every week you know its getting closer and closer to getting done. And every week getting more optimized which i think is the best lol.
I dont think any game devs have giving out so much so fast way before the inital release.
We already have an amazing first look at what is to come and so far its amazing.
But now its like cruel, you give us all this amazing stuff to mess around with and now we just want more.
I cant even imagine what functions and triggers and enities,sounds,models,textures, but i know there gonna be great.
damn you.
I dont think any game devs have giving out so much so fast way before the inital release.
We already have an amazing first look at what is to come and so far its amazing.
But now its like cruel, you give us all this amazing stuff to mess around with and now we just want more.
I cant even imagine what functions and triggers and enities,sounds,models,textures, but i know there gonna be great.
damn you.
Comments
Wait, ######.
THIS! I couldnt give a crap about Spark. I bought SE for goddamn alpha version of the game. Seems bit wasted now...
They said the alpha will come soon and considering that I still have black textures and models with my old graphic card, I'm pretty sure they spend most of their time on the game and not the editor.
They said the alpha will come soon and considering that I still have black textures and models with my old graphic card, I'm pretty sure they spend most of their time on the game and not the editor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, they are still doing optimizations with each update to the engine itself (shadowing and compatibility).
Maybe the biggest reason why they haven't released the alpha yet.
They are also listening to our feedback and have created props for us to use (chairs and benches) and they have given out the mapping guidelines (came recently with the last update) so people now actually know the different layouts on the maps they are using.
They are doing great, and once we get the alpha I think we will be able to play the actual game considering how much content we know they have (they have all alien lifeforms, motioncaptured the marine-player, most likely have all the weapons ready, structures are also likely all done, they are confident enough in their gameplay that they have told us how it works and told us the abilities for the aliens).
Let them make the best editor possible and you have a higher chance of getting the best game possible.
Honestly I'm goddamn sick of devs just borrowing engines and barely using the toolsets properly to churn out a game that could have been so much more. Allowing them to make perfect tools allows them to make a great game.
"If I could have a perfect team of developers, it'd be 99 artists and 1 excellent tools programmer" -Eskil Steenberg
spark editor is the engine, everything looks as it will in the game if you set it up right without all the interface thingies
I don't know how you can say this when the editor basically runs the same engine as the game. There are tons of things they can do for the editor that will improve the engine at the same time (a large chunk of game creation is boring programming).
Sure, there are a lot of things we would like to see that recent updates haven't touched on (lerk, fade, exo reveals, more structures revealed, gameplay, etc.) but it's silly to say that they've shifted focus away from making the game.
With all due respect, that's pretty much what an alpha is. Alpha's are never expected to be full polished games, they're expected to be buggy.
Not in the pre-alpha, no.
Albeit, I must say, if it does look like that in the final product, you won't hear any complaints from me.
<!--quoteo(post=1747668:date=Jan 17 2010, 05:42 PM:name=Hoodedsniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hoodedsniper @ Jan 17 2010, 05:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747668"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would hate to see a alpha game play before its optimized because who wants to play a game thats laggy as hell unless you have a top of the line machine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, that's exactly what Alphas are. But who knows, maybe UW will optimise their release more thoroughly than is custom during development, since they are releasing it to the public.
Ok. Now tell me where are the skulks, lerks, fades and marines fighting.
We only see environment, walls, props, grounds, floors etc etc.
Did you realize that some of us are tired of seeing things that don't move?
The Spark Editor is a great tool, obviously, but the community is still waiting for the REAL SCREENSHOTS. I mean, marines shooting, skulks bleeding, marines dying etc.
Albeit, I must say, if it does look like that in the final product, you won't hear any complaints from me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what do you mean by that? this is the engine, there will be some updates, but as Max has said in many posts, this is how it looks ingame, so they can prototype without having to load up a game next to the editor... now as far as I can tell it doesn't do occlusion culling, so the performance takes a giant hit, but it should look the same (that was one of the goals of the whole engine, to prototype in real time)
YA! RAGE!!!! what the ###### is the point of an alpha game if there are no maps... just wait.
...However we don't get the working build, just a stripped down - more stable, less crummy-looking - version of it.
For instance, we indeed don't yet have ambient occlusion, fog controllers, HDR/Bloom (assuming the game uses either), animation systems, sound systems, mover systems, scripting systems, texture glow, colour correction, rim lighting, AA and AF, decals, particle systems, post-processing, motion blur, player, structure, and indeed most models and materials...
Their releasing it slowly so we can find the bugs now with released stuff, fix them. and then give us more.
1 small map for 6v6 or so? Aint that hard to make. I dont need 20maps for ALPHA state release.
For instance, we indeed don't yet have ambient occlusion, fog controllers, HDR/Bloom (assuming the game uses either), animation systems, sound systems, mover systems, scripting systems, texture glow, colour correction, rim lighting, AA and AF, decals, particle systems, post-processing, motion blur, player, structure, and indeed most models and materials...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, I was relating to the fact that the first post says we have seen nothing from the game except 3 screenshots, while we have actually seen far far far more content than that (hell, the amount of models in game, made by the 1-3 modelers they have, would take months to make full time modeling...) because we have seen the majority of the engine (all the features you're saying will make it a bit better looking, but the overall look is already clear, plus I don't see any of those features in the screenshots they did show)
as for a response to the things you say we're missing:
are there actually games that have ambient occlusion? it's one of the heaviest rendering mechanisms around. (after googling I see it's possible, but is so incredibly heavy on graphics that it's hardly usable) The lights have atmospheric flags which give a fog effect, for some reason I don't think the indoor environments in ns2 will have hdr or bloom.
and the animation, sound, mover, scripting systems are never seen in screenshots anyway
post processing afaik is only in the movie editor they're making, can't imagine what that would be in a game, motion blur is possible, but to me is the most annoying feature ever in a game, since it's never done like in real life (its a camera motion blur effect, meaning it's non-realistic for games, and looks crappy even for movies)
In that case, I agree, there's tons of stuff to check out. And it is indeed how the game will look like... It's just not the full picture yet.
<!--quoteo(post=1747698:date=Jan 17 2010, 09:41 PM:name=Biglines)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Biglines @ Jan 17 2010, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747698"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->plus I don't see any of those features in the screenshots they did show<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G3amfulHoo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G3amfulHoo</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1747698:date=Jan 17 2010, 09:41 PM:name=Biglines)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Biglines @ Jan 17 2010, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747698"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as for a response to the things you say we're missing...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously I can only speculate, but all of the things mentioned (besides HDR and Bloom), I am reasonably certain they'll be in and play a big role in how the game looks both in screenshots and in motion.
Ambient occlusion is indeed heavy today but, to the best of my knowledge, that's only because there are no engines around designed to handle it specifically (anyone remember early days of Antialiasing?), just like most engines die after more than six dynamic lights per scene whereas Spark can apparently handle dozens if not more. Fog, atmospheric lighting, rim lighting and so on go in the same vein.
While animation and other things may not sound all too impressive, they can have a tremendous impact on the looks and feel... And in an engine where every light is movable and adjustable at any time, even more so. As for post processing and motion blur... They are only annoying when done improperly, as is everything else. Otherwise they're about as essential as shadows today.
Sure, there are a lot of things we would like to see that recent updates haven't touched on (lerk, fade, exo reveals, more structures revealed, gameplay, etc.) but it's silly to say that they've shifted focus away from making the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said they shifted their focus away from making the game, I said they havnt given out updates about the game as such to the public. No doubt they are working hard on NS2 it terms of structures and gameplay but as far as the community is concerned it is only updated about spark.
i say 3-4 months till an alpha.
Raytraced ambient occlusion is incredibly slow, however screen-space ambient occlusion is quite fast to render and is used in quite a few games. In fact, in the "dynamic infestation" video from oh so many years ago has noticeable SSAO in it. I'm guessing it was one of the first features coded into the engine.
<a href="http://www.fileshack.com/file.x/14955/Call+of+Juarez:+Bound+in+Blood+Demo" target="_blank">Call of Juarez</a> has ambient occlusion. It's light on performance and seems better than the version that comes with the new Unreal Development Kit.
Seriously? Someone could build a map for the alpha in about 5 minutes. Just create a large box. For that matter, I'm certain that the devs have maps already fleshed out; after all, what better way to test the editor before releasing it to the public?
I must confess some frustration myself at the news shifting it's focus from the game to the editor. I have zero interest in using the editor myself, and whilst it's cool to see people using it and getting some information that way, I'm left with the inescapable conclusion that not only was the 2009 release date completely unachievable, but that we won't be seeing the alpha for quite some time yet. Since the teaser trailer we've seen, what, two "screenshots"? If the game was further along I'd expect to see a bit more than that.
There was no shift, only addition. There's nothing to say about the game yet.
<!--quoteo(post=1749854:date=Jan 31 2010, 01:49 AM:name=Ryo-Ohki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryo-Ohki @ Jan 31 2010, 01:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but that we won't be seeing the alpha for quite some time yet<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-NS2 Twitter+ 10 hours ago--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2 Twitter @ 10 hours ago)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Man, we're cranking on the alpha! Our next goal is to release something small, polished and playable. It's starting to come together!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's rather my point; how on earth was a 2009 release date even remotely possible if there's nothing to be say about the game now? I honestly don't mind; I've bought NS2 and I paid for NS1 via Constellation, and I'm quite happy for Flayra and the team to spend as much time as they need. I just find it a bit surprising that the dev team don't seem to be even close to a workable alpha at this stage when they gave out the 2009 release date. Given how virtually every piece of minor information regarding the editor seems to be newsworthy, I feel that if the team had some concrete evidence of the alpha being close, they'd post it. A short in-game video, some more screenshots, anything really. Frankly I can't see "it's starting to come together" being anything other than an NS version of Valve Time; hence I stand by my claim that I don't expect the alpha any time soon.