<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=108431" target="_blank">1, 2, 3, 4, 5...</a> Granted, these are out of context (the same people may claim they just want to play). Again, if there were not a significant percentage of supporters wanting "perks", then UWE can do better by adopting the suggested model (since perks only benefit those who want them).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, there you are. I can't really judge this based off your lack of concrete evidence.
<!--quoteo(post=1747264:date=Jan 14 2010, 06:20 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jan 14 2010, 06:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747264"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not with $40, it means you choose between alpha, or introducing a friend; as I've explained numerous times. Thanks, I needed something absurd to match your PETA analogy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess I deserved the latter, though yours outdid mine by far.
However, I still suggest that you drop the morality argument. It's childish and ultimately draws needed attention from the subject at hand; which is to propose a theoretically more efficient sales offer.
We do not support Unknown Worlds simply because they will procreate and produce bunnies and flowers. We support the company because we want them to make good games for us to enjoy, and that motive is not in any sense selfless. Please stop engaging in ethical insinuations against your fellow players. They want this game to work as much as you or me or anybody else, and they don't need that sort of under-handed ploy.
So here's why this won't work:
<b>1) Unknown Worlds is an Indie Developer</b> - You're a constie. You've been around on these forums at least two years longer than I have. So you very well know that the company's assets are very much <u>finite</u>. In fact, they are living off of our pre-orders right now. The time and effort it will take to create the new Keys and the Package could be very much expensive and time consuming. As the development of this game continues, pre-orders will begin to drop after the initial shockwave of news. New packages time and again will make up for this drop, but returns will begin to diminish. I see this venture in a negative light when I look at the opportunity cost presented. If UWE wants a large playerbase and steady income, they will have to do it just like every other game developer: Make a good game.
<b>2) Steam will be much more efficient at expanding the playerbase</b> - Want to hear a success story? Take a look at Tripwire Interactive, and more specifically, their mod-turned-game <i>Killing Floor</i>. When it was released earlier last spring, it had so-so sales. But then, there came the Content Updates and the Free Weekends during the fall. On Xfire, the weekly hours logged on KF spiked by a significant fraction, and leveled off at something like 30% more hours than pre-update. And then, you have your guest passes, which combined with the sales, got KF #10 into the Top Steam Sales Charts (Which is ranked by revenue, and not by # of sales. KF was at $10/5$ through the entire holiday season).
If Natural Selection 2 is at least as good a quality game as Killing Floor is, it can pull off the same thing, or more.
<!--quoteo(post=1747331:date=Jan 14 2010, 03:36 PM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jan 14 2010, 03:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747331"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're giving your copy to a friend who would buy then you're not really understanding the point. If you're seeing it as getting an extra copy for free, again you are not understanding the point. If you are seeing this as an opportunity to grow the userbase while not being preoccupied with purchasing perks, then you get it.
Your point in (b) is valid though; however using higher cost as the bar to filter out premature judgment just seems odd. An opt-in form or link on the forums would seem more appropriate in making sure only the enthusiasts receive alpha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not saying I don't understand your point, but it's my own money I'm spending here, and I'm going to use it in a way that benefits me the most. I'm not going to buy copies and give them to people who don't care about the game when I have friends that are far more interested (the ones that might possibly buy at some point); by the same token I'm not going to spend my money to donate copies to random forum people. This isn't a charity, it's a game company.
Your proposed model is still set to where you would get a free copy of the game based on the current price model. If you really wanted a "bundle deal" it should be offered at a small discount over the standard price, not as a way to get freebies. Something like $50 for SE + regular ed., not $40, which is their current deal plus a free game.
Again, this is UWE's game and they can sell it in whatever bundle/price they want. Also, keep in mind they can always LOWER the price if they want to sell more copies, but they can't very well raise it; they would lose too many sales. The way for them to make money is to start with the price at its highest (which is worth it for people who want to play the game when interest in it is maxed) and gradually lower the price as their sales drop; this increases sales because it puts the game in a more acceptable price range for many people. I'm sure you understand all of this, but my point is that offering a $40 bundle for 2 keys AND alpha access probably corresponds to a larger price drop than they want to give at this point. There shouldn't be ANY price drops before the game is even out, and for a few months after (not including promotional sales/free weekends etc...those are temporary).
@Heyman, mono: there's no loss to UWE or the supporter in the latter owning two copies, only potential for more support. If even that potential is not lived, it is still nothing less nor gained than worrying about perks such as alpha access.
I'm slightly disheartened that only few were able to see beyond the surface interpretation that two copies for the supporter is inherently less gained for UWE. I've tried in no less than several hundred words to explain the philosophy beyond why this is not true in the case where support is genuine - and I thank those who have gaven it thought enough to see the nuance; however I am not so obtuse to realize that philosophical discussion on an internet forum, no less a gaming one, can be left wanting for higher a brow.
And so short of another echo, I digress. Suffice to say, for UWE and those who have read fully, I offer here a potential for increased support; and although it is a stark compromise from the original idea, in the very least I hope to see a support package allowing us to show our support in <b>more meaningful</b> ways than individual perks.
Comments
Granted, these are out of context (the same people may claim they just want to play). Again, if there were not a significant percentage of supporters wanting "perks", then UWE can do better by adopting the suggested model (since perks only benefit those who want them).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, there you are. I can't really judge this based off your lack of concrete evidence.
<!--quoteo(post=1747264:date=Jan 14 2010, 06:20 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jan 14 2010, 06:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747264"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not with $40, it means you choose between alpha, or introducing a friend; as I've explained numerous times.
Thanks, I needed something absurd to match your PETA analogy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess I deserved the latter, though yours outdid mine by far.
However, I still suggest that you drop the morality argument. It's childish and ultimately draws needed attention from the subject at hand; which is to propose a theoretically more efficient sales offer.
We do not support Unknown Worlds simply because they will procreate and produce bunnies and flowers. We support the company because we want them to make good games for us to enjoy, and that motive is not in any sense selfless. Please stop engaging in ethical insinuations against your fellow players. They want this game to work as much as you or me or anybody else, and they don't need that sort of under-handed ploy.
So here's why this won't work:
<b>1) Unknown Worlds is an Indie Developer</b> - You're a constie. You've been around on these forums at least two years longer than I have. So you very well know that the company's assets are very much <u>finite</u>. In fact, they are living off of our pre-orders right now. The time and effort it will take to create the new Keys and the Package could be very much expensive and time consuming. As the development of this game continues, pre-orders will begin to drop after the initial shockwave of news. New packages time and again will make up for this drop, but returns will begin to diminish. I see this venture in a negative light when I look at the opportunity cost presented. If UWE wants a large playerbase and steady income, they will have to do it just like every other game developer: Make a good game.
<b>2) Steam will be much more efficient at expanding the playerbase</b> - Want to hear a success story? Take a look at Tripwire Interactive, and more specifically, their mod-turned-game <i>Killing Floor</i>. When it was released earlier last spring, it had so-so sales. But then, there came the Content Updates and the Free Weekends during the fall. On Xfire, the weekly hours logged on KF spiked by a significant fraction, and leveled off at something like 30% more hours than pre-update. And then, you have your guest passes, which combined with the sales, got KF #10 into the Top Steam Sales Charts (Which is ranked by revenue, and not by # of sales. KF was at $10/5$ through the entire holiday season).
If Natural Selection 2 is at least as good a quality game as Killing Floor is, it can pull off the same thing, or more.
Your point in (b) is valid though; however using higher cost as the bar to filter out premature judgment just seems odd. An opt-in form or link on the forums would seem more appropriate in making sure only the enthusiasts receive alpha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not saying I don't understand your point, but it's my own money I'm spending here, and I'm going to use it in a way that benefits me the most. I'm not going to buy copies and give them to people who don't care about the game when I have friends that are far more interested (the ones that might possibly buy at some point); by the same token I'm not going to spend my money to donate copies to random forum people. This isn't a charity, it's a game company.
Your proposed model is still set to where you would get a free copy of the game based on the current price model. If you really wanted a "bundle deal" it should be offered at a small discount over the standard price, not as a way to get freebies. Something like $50 for SE + regular ed., not $40, which is their current deal plus a free game.
Again, this is UWE's game and they can sell it in whatever bundle/price they want. Also, keep in mind they can always LOWER the price if they want to sell more copies, but they can't very well raise it; they would lose too many sales. The way for them to make money is to start with the price at its highest (which is worth it for people who want to play the game when interest in it is maxed) and gradually lower the price as their sales drop; this increases sales because it puts the game in a more acceptable price range for many people. I'm sure you understand all of this, but my point is that offering a $40 bundle for 2 keys AND alpha access probably corresponds to a larger price drop than they want to give at this point. There shouldn't be ANY price drops before the game is even out, and for a few months after (not including promotional sales/free weekends etc...those are temporary).
I'm slightly disheartened that only few were able to see beyond the surface interpretation that two copies for the supporter is inherently less gained for UWE. I've tried in no less than several hundred words to explain the philosophy beyond why this is not true in the case where support is genuine - and I thank those who have gaven it thought enough to see the nuance; however I am not so obtuse to realize that philosophical discussion on an internet forum, no less a gaming one, can be left wanting for higher a brow.
And so short of another echo, I digress. Suffice to say, for UWE and those who have read fully, I offer here a potential for increased support; and although it is a stark compromise from the original idea, in the very least I hope to see a support package allowing us to show our support in <b>more meaningful</b> ways than individual perks.