Basic NS2 Mapping Guidelines
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">Landmarks, sizes and cover</div>Hey everyone,
Official Mapping Guidelines are coming but in the meantime, here's some basic info to get you started. Note that the game is in active development so these can change at any time! We'll do our best to keep you up to date when and if it does though. A Spark pre-alpha update in the nearish future will include the official Mapping Guidelines.
<b>Overview</b>
Both the marine and alien teams have up to 16 players each and spawn in their own base at the beginning of the game. The marine base has a Command Station and room for all 16 players and a collection of other marine structures. The alien start has a Hive hanging from the ceiling and room for 16 players (including the huge and fearsome Onos) and room for some alien structures.
Besides the two starting rooms, there are 2-4 other main rooms that can be used for either marine or alien bases. There are also 4-7 resource points which can be captured and built by a team to give that team extra resources. NS2 layouts will typically have 6-10 rooms (bases plus smaller rooms for some resource points) and are simpler than the sprawling, nondescript corridors found in Natural Selection 1 maps. Rooms, resource points and other high-conflict areas should be relatively simple geometry-wise to lower confusion and aim interference. They should also be a little
bigger than in NS1 for less chaos.
To make maps easier to learn, rooms should use landmarks wherever possible. Landmarks are unique lights, props, soundscapes or themes to make them unique in the minds of players and easy to remember and describe. They should be easy to describe (“Warehouseâ€, “Sewerâ€, “Glass corridorâ€, “Loading bayâ€) or easy to remember (loud machinery humming, covering up footstep sounds, one huge mining drill coming down through the ceiling, a huge lava waterfall, etc).
<b>Sizes</b>
· All sizes are in inches
· Primary routes 160 to 192 wide, 160 tall
· Secondary route entrances/exits are 80 wide, 128 tall
· Wall textures are 128 tall
· Floor textures are 128 wide
· The male marine is 77 tall
· MASCs are approximately 100 long and 50 tall
· Doors are 100 by 100
· The Onos is 120 tall, 90 wide and 120 long (he must crouch to get through doorways)
<b>Cover</b>
Due to the ranged vs. melee combat, marines have a distinct advantage in wide open areas without cover. Medium to large hallways and rooms should have plenty of crates and props as cover for aliens. Marines will occasionally need to take cover as well.
<b>Avoid Level-Over-Level</b>
Commander Mode is the ability for Commander players to play the game from a top-down view. This is handled automatically by the game but does place special limitations on level designers: maps can't have “level over level†geometry. If one room is built on top of another, the commander can't give orders in or see into the lower room. Because of this problem, overlapping hallways and areas that cross over other areas should generally be avoided. Girders, catwalks, balconies, pipes, and other smaller geometry can overlap as long as they don't really block commander access to the area below them.
<b>Q&A Update</b>
- Marine and alien start locations are both fixed. There are NOT three hive rooms like in NS1.
- For vents, use our special vent models (they are coming in an update soon).
- Nope, we're not supporting multiple levels for Commanders.
<!--quoteo(post=1742619:date=Dec 6 2009, 03:54 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Dec 6 2009, 03:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742619"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This does bring up a valid point, and something I was thinking about the other day. Certainly for the purposes of trying out the editor and just "messing around" in general, its ok for community mappers to be influenced by concept art from other games. But just remember, and this is directed to everyone, any maps you may want to be considered for official inclusion can not be created based off of existing concept art from other games/movies or other copyright protected sources. We will have our hands full judging the visual quality and gameplay quality of community made maps, and it won't always be easy for us to tell if a part of a map has been generated based off of external concept art.
I know this pretty much common sense, but still is worth mentioning.
Thanks.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Official Mapping Guidelines are coming but in the meantime, here's some basic info to get you started. Note that the game is in active development so these can change at any time! We'll do our best to keep you up to date when and if it does though. A Spark pre-alpha update in the nearish future will include the official Mapping Guidelines.
<b>Overview</b>
Both the marine and alien teams have up to 16 players each and spawn in their own base at the beginning of the game. The marine base has a Command Station and room for all 16 players and a collection of other marine structures. The alien start has a Hive hanging from the ceiling and room for 16 players (including the huge and fearsome Onos) and room for some alien structures.
Besides the two starting rooms, there are 2-4 other main rooms that can be used for either marine or alien bases. There are also 4-7 resource points which can be captured and built by a team to give that team extra resources. NS2 layouts will typically have 6-10 rooms (bases plus smaller rooms for some resource points) and are simpler than the sprawling, nondescript corridors found in Natural Selection 1 maps. Rooms, resource points and other high-conflict areas should be relatively simple geometry-wise to lower confusion and aim interference. They should also be a little
bigger than in NS1 for less chaos.
To make maps easier to learn, rooms should use landmarks wherever possible. Landmarks are unique lights, props, soundscapes or themes to make them unique in the minds of players and easy to remember and describe. They should be easy to describe (“Warehouseâ€, “Sewerâ€, “Glass corridorâ€, “Loading bayâ€) or easy to remember (loud machinery humming, covering up footstep sounds, one huge mining drill coming down through the ceiling, a huge lava waterfall, etc).
<b>Sizes</b>
· All sizes are in inches
· Primary routes 160 to 192 wide, 160 tall
· Secondary route entrances/exits are 80 wide, 128 tall
· Wall textures are 128 tall
· Floor textures are 128 wide
· The male marine is 77 tall
· MASCs are approximately 100 long and 50 tall
· Doors are 100 by 100
· The Onos is 120 tall, 90 wide and 120 long (he must crouch to get through doorways)
<b>Cover</b>
Due to the ranged vs. melee combat, marines have a distinct advantage in wide open areas without cover. Medium to large hallways and rooms should have plenty of crates and props as cover for aliens. Marines will occasionally need to take cover as well.
<b>Avoid Level-Over-Level</b>
Commander Mode is the ability for Commander players to play the game from a top-down view. This is handled automatically by the game but does place special limitations on level designers: maps can't have “level over level†geometry. If one room is built on top of another, the commander can't give orders in or see into the lower room. Because of this problem, overlapping hallways and areas that cross over other areas should generally be avoided. Girders, catwalks, balconies, pipes, and other smaller geometry can overlap as long as they don't really block commander access to the area below them.
<b>Q&A Update</b>
- Marine and alien start locations are both fixed. There are NOT three hive rooms like in NS1.
- For vents, use our special vent models (they are coming in an update soon).
- Nope, we're not supporting multiple levels for Commanders.
<!--quoteo(post=1742619:date=Dec 6 2009, 03:54 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Dec 6 2009, 03:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742619"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This does bring up a valid point, and something I was thinking about the other day. Certainly for the purposes of trying out the editor and just "messing around" in general, its ok for community mappers to be influenced by concept art from other games. But just remember, and this is directed to everyone, any maps you may want to be considered for official inclusion can not be created based off of existing concept art from other games/movies or other copyright protected sources. We will have our hands full judging the visual quality and gameplay quality of community made maps, and it won't always be easy for us to tell if a part of a map has been generated based off of external concept art.
I know this pretty much common sense, but still is worth mentioning.
Thanks.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I'd love confirmation of this as well actually, two very main things we could do with.
Also, does this mean all the official maps will have those exact door sizes or are they just a <i>minimum</i> guideline. Always having to crouch to go through rooms in a map on NS2 as Onos sounds very frustrating.
Areas that can be closed off for gameplay, such as through the use of closed/welded doors must use the the provided door model. This is for multiple purposes, such as correct sizing, and because there will be model specific requirements and animations, for things such as the doors being able to be welded, and Onos being able to break them down.
Every room and hallway doesn't have to have the door, you can always have larger open entrances that an Onos can go through without crouching, and its preferable to have main routes through a map that an Onos can always run through unimpeded. The doors are more for sealing off secondary routes.
As far as vent sizes, the provided vent models and vent openings show exactly how large the minimum size that vents and other access areas need to be for a skulk to move through, so this shouldn't be an issue.
A lot of questions will be cleared up with the more detailed full mapping guidelines.
--Cory
Well the default scale of any of the wallmod props with vents in them are 40x40, I would probably go with that. IIRC in HL1/2 crouched players were 35 units high.
Another question, besides the doors, what about breakable walls panels by Onos, to allow aliens team reach a room occupied for marines.
Though I'm admitting going to miss the " sprawling, nondescript corridors found in Natural Selection 1 maps" The Aura of NS1 that snatched me was the high learning curve and epicness, lending to a more mystical emotionally melancholic feeling as opposed to CS where everything is straightforward and blah blah blah
Can we please not actively encourage the use of crates?
Though I'm admitting going to miss the " sprawling, nondescript corridors found in Natural Selection 1 maps" The Aura of NS1 that snatched me was the high learning curve and epicness, lending to a more mystical emotionally melancholic feeling as opposed to CS where everything is straightforward and blah blah blah<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point of a map editor is to allow people to make different maps. There's nothing stopping you from making bigger maps, it's merely that the smaller ones will probably work better because the snarl of corridors that characterises an NS1 map is not really a brilliant idea in any game.
If you think it adds something though, feel free to make it, as long as people enjoy playing it it's a good map.
I'm sure there'll still be plenty of room for that sort of thing though, and let's not forget that these are only the guidelines for OFFICIAL maps, custom maps can consist of whatever the hell the mapper feels like. I'm guessing we'll see some beautiful ports of classic NS maps before long.
Important question for Flayra: Will there be rotating doors? This may well have a huge effect on the community as a whole :P
Haven't used a 3D map editor since QOOLE for Quake 2 but definetely excited about working on an NS2 map over Xmas vacation. Thanks again for releasing the spark editor really fun to use so far.
I'll take it as a good sign that people are so eager to get more info on the guidelines.
Question for my fellow forum mates. Is the Spark editor only for map geometry so far? or can you already place stuff like Spawns, gas nodes(functional), and define Power grid areas? I obiously haven't spent much time with the editor so far but I'm guessing that stuff is yet to come (but will eventually come with the editor)
Can we please not actively encourage the use of crates?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Barrels are the new crates.
I mean, for any given area, can I draw a rectangle that specifies the view angle, and also tells the engine what part of a map to completely ignore for viewing by the commander?
This hard to explain. hmmm.
Will the door, and weld/onos functionality, still operate if the model is distorted at all? For example I'm currently using the black door model but have increased its overall size by 15%.
<!--quoteo(post=1742878:date=Dec 7 2009, 12:55 PM:name=CoolCookieCooks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CoolCookieCooks @ Dec 7 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742878"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Barrels are the new crates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Barrels are for Donkey Kong! Crates are for spooky cargobays.
I mean, for any given area, can I draw a rectangle that specifies the view angle, and also tells the engine what part of a map to completely ignore for viewing by the commander?
This hard to explain. hmmm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easiest way to accomplish what you are talking about is to make sure there are no 'faces' in the direction of the commander's view (ie top down). As long as all faces are from the bottom, they should not impede commander viewing. Truthfully, as long as are outside the structure in the editor and you can see in, you'll be able to do so as a commander, it is essentially the same.
I think if i can be done without it is better. It is not much of a constraint, things just have to be designed properly. Look at Starcaft or Warcraft, there was never really the need to scale the view point.
Anyways thanks a lot Flayra for these clarifications. Each new update is the source for new inspiration!
I'm sure it won't be that slow and silly-looking. Check the trailer again; it still looks awesome when he ducks under in there. Plus theres the upside that your an onos and everyone who sees you will still sh*t their pants and run away.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Avoid Level-Over-Level
Commander Mode is the ability for Commander players to play the game from a top-down view. This is handled automatically by the game but does place special limitations on level designers: maps can't have “level over level†geometry. If one room is built on top of another, the commander can't give orders in or see into the lower room. Because of this problem, overlapping hallways and areas that cross over other areas should generally be avoided. Girders, catwalks, balconies, pipes, and other smaller geometry can overlap as long as they don't really block commander access to the area below them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would there be an option to just have a layer that the commander can't see. Like assign all the ceiling props to the same layer and then the commander can't see anything on it? Would be nice with faces too. Otherwise we have to balance between the ceiling looking dull and the commander not being able to see.
· The Onos is 120 tall, ..."
lol. Onos is bigger than Doors.
I think Doors should be 128 which is same as wall defaults.
Did u really think well these sizes ? There is no 160,192 and 80 grid option in the Spark editor.
"
Sizes
· All sizes are in inches
· Primary routes 160 to 192 wide, 160 tall
· Secondary route entrances/exits are 80 wide, 128 tall
· Wall textures are 128 tall
· Floor textures are 128 wide
· The male marine is 77 tall
· MASCs are approximately 100 long and 50 tall
· Doors are 100 by 100
· The Onos is 120 tall, 90 wide and 120 long (he must crouch to get through doorways)
"
100 long means it'll need 100 wide as well, or there'll be issues with clipping if it tries to turn around.
It'll need even more room for turning, because the diagonals are longer than the sides.
Can we please not actively encourage the use of crates?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marcus Cole: I spy with my little eye something beginning with "B."
Dr. Stephen Franklin: Boxes.
Marcus Cole: Right. I spy with my little eye something beginning with "M."
Dr. Stephen Franklin: More boxes.
Marcus Cole: Two in a row.
Dr. Stephen Franklin: And that's when I shot him your honor.
Marcus Cole: I spy with my little eye something beginning with "E."
Dr. Stephen Franklin: I-I give up.
Marcus Cole: Oh come on.
Dr. Stephen Franklin: This better not be what I -
Marcus Cole, Dr. Stephen Franklin: Even MORE boxes!
Commander Mode is the ability for Commander players to play the game from a top-down view. This is handled automatically by the game but does place special limitations on level designers: maps can't have “level over level†geometry. If one room is built on top of another, the commander can't give orders in or see into the lower room. Because of this problem, overlapping hallways and areas that cross over other areas should generally be avoided. Girders, catwalks, balconies, pipes, and other smaller geometry can overlap as long as they don't really block commander access to the area below them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, I must admit I wasn't really expecting this. That's a pretty big limitation if you ask me. How are vents being handled then? It sounds like you wouldn't be able to place them underneath floor panels or up in the rafters (to drop down on marines)...if this feature was implemented in NS1 you'd essentially lose 80% of the vent systems. That's assuming vents are seen as their own level by the engine. Or are you trying to restrict Marines from entering the vent systems all together? You say "should generally be avoided" which isn't the same as "<b>do not want</b>(don't do it)".
Could you perhaps explain this further?