Help needed on how to make this kind of tunnel properly...

XtofXtof Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15514Members
in NS2 General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">Need professional help ;-)</div>Hello Folks,
I was wondering how this tunnel (see the 2 pics) can be made properly. I know I can do it by almost drawing every single line myself (except for the circles and rotating them, and then bringing them into the right position. But then you have to draw all the lines manually and create every single surface by hand... which would take an eternity).

<a href="http://img121.imageshack.us/i/howmaketunnel2.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/3673/howmaketunnel2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://img689.imageshack.us/i/howmaketunnel1.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2361/howmaketunnel1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

Any tips or suggestions on how to get this done properly?

Thanks,
XtOf
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Comments

  • uffouffo Join Date: 2003-05-03 Member: 16026Members
    you could try sealing up the cylinder's end, extrude it once and rotate the extruded part and so on.
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    edited November 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1741551:date=Nov 29 2009, 08:41 PM:name=uffo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(uffo @ Nov 29 2009, 08:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you could try sealing up the cylinder's end, extrude it once and rotate the extruded part and so on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Lacking a torus primitive this would be the way I'd do it.

    You can also use a cylinder as a guide if you have cylinders.

    Really the editor could use more modelling features, in max there are several ways to do this, either make a donut and shell modifier/face normal extrude it, make a tube and bend modifier it, or make it like suggested above, but the other two methods are much easier.
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  • XtofXtof Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15514Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1741556:date=Nov 29 2009, 11:01 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chris0132 @ Nov 29 2009, 11:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741556"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Lacking a torus primitive this would be the way I'd do it.</b>

    You can also use a cylinder as a guide if you have cylinders.

    Really the editor could use more modelling features, in max there are several ways to do this, either make a donut and shell modifier/face normal extrude it, make a tube and bend modifier it, or make it like suggested above, but the other two methods are much easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <b>Lacking a torus primitive this would be the way I'd do it.</b>
    That sounds like chineese to me.
    I agree that there has to be an easier way to do it.

    Greetz,
    Xtof
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    edited November 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1741560:date=Nov 29 2009, 09:23 PM:name=Xtof)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xtof @ Nov 29 2009, 09:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741560"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Lacking a torus primitive this would be the way I'd do it.</b>
    That sounds like chineese to me.
    I agree that there has to be an easier way to do it.

    Greetz,
    Xtof<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Lacking a torus primitive [because you don't have, or lack, a torus primitive (primitives being the name for the basic procedural shapes created by a modelling package)] this [the quoted method] would be the way I'd do it.
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  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
    Is there no vertex manipulating in Spark, because that's how I'd do it. Mark down the planes like you have and then vertex manipulate some existing cylinders to match the vertices on all axes (merging vertices where neccessary), then remove the planes you were using for guidance and you should have your hollow tube corner piece.
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  • XtofXtof Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15514Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1741571:date=Nov 30 2009, 12:09 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Nov 30 2009, 12:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741571"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is there no vertex manipulating in Spark, because that's how I'd do it. Mark down the planes like you have and then vertex manipulate some existing cylinders to match the vertices on all axes (merging vertices where neccessary), then remove the planes you were using for guidance and you should have your hollow tube corner piece.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So you mean... fill in the position of the "vertex" manually and then work you way up from there...
    At the moment there is no way to merge the vertices unfortunatly (not that I know of).
    And what do you mean by "Mark down the planes like you have"... what do you mean by 'planes'?

    Is there someone that can post a screenie example on how to do it?

    As a matter of fact I think we need (to work on) a "guide" on how to use the [Not finished] editor at best, with the do's and don'ts, with tips and tricks for everyone to share. Just my thought though.

    Greetings,
    Xtof
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  • obsidobsid Join Date: 2003-09-16 Member: 20909Members
    I actualy did exactly this thing. (you can see the end of the tunnel from my screenshot on the screenshot page). I did it by just extruding the end, rotating it slightly, extrude again, repeat till done, only takes like 4-5 times to make it look nice.

    -obsid
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  • estaticdestaticd Join Date: 2005-01-19 Member: 36393Members, Constellation
    This was pretty easy... drew a circle, then extrude twice, rotate, move, etc.

    <img src="http://fsckin.com/random/11-30-2009%2012-38-49%20AM.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Is there a way to select vertices only in the top view, to resize the shape?
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  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1741560:date=Nov 29 2009, 04:23 PM:name=Xtof)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xtof @ Nov 29 2009, 04:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741560"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Lacking a torus primitive this would be the way I'd do it.</b>
    That sounds like chineese to me.
    I agree that there has to be an easier way to do it.

    Greetz,
    Xtof<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    In laymans terms, an torus primitive is a doughnut (torus) basic shape/building block (primitive).

    <img src="http://www.math.cornell.edu/~mec/2008-2009/HoHonLeung/Torus.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    With a Torus Primitive, you could just cut out 75% of it, and use the remaining curved section as your joint in your corridor.
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  • XtofXtof Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15514Members
    edited December 2009
    I want to thank everyone for the information and the help given... it really was helpfull and I managed to do what I wanted, and I'm glad I pulled it of, because it just wasn't working the way I wanted (also because I did something wrong over and over again).

    Though I -still- think that Spark should have more options when it comes to dealing with angles... as for instance being able to <!--coloro:#8B0000--><span style="color:#8B0000"><!--/coloro--><b>change angles from the side</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> of an object and not from the center... it can be done with a workaround, but it would make things a lot easier imho.
    Also... when you have made one rotation you should be able to do that rotation again and again (donut-wise), so that one shouldn't set everything manually with every rotation over and over again [Kind of like an extrude tool that can handle angles].

    Greetings,
    Xtof

    <img src="http://www.math.binghamton.edu/alex/AnimatedGifs/Tori.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
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  • LoeyLoey Join Date: 2009-10-31 Member: 69187Members
    how did you end up doing it? i would have just line tooled it
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  • XtofXtof Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15514Members
    Well... my main goal was to make a circl-tunnel with a fluent turn. As the Spark-editor doesn't give you the ability to make a donut-like shape [see above] that you can cut to the tunnel you want, I had to do it 'manually'.
    As you can see in the first picture I drew a horizontal circle with 20 sides, because for the tunnel I needed 5 sides to turn to get a 1/4 (quarter) turn, because I used the 22.5° rotation... See it this way: you need to turn 4 times to get from 0° to 90°.
    Then I drew the first vertical tunnel circle and aligned it with the horizontal circle... from there on I extruded and moved (manually) the tunnel circle into the right position on the horizontal circle, which sole purpose was to serve as reference to my tunnel.

    Making the floor is rather simple... just select manually all the lines where you want the floor to come and press "alt+c" [creat surface], you have to be in select mode to be able to do that. If the surface is on the wron side you want, then click on the surface (again in select-mode) and press "ctrl+f" [Flip surface].

    Hope this answer is satisfying. It's faster and better then line-tooling it imho.

    <img src="http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3490/circletunnel001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    <img src="http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1738/circletunnel002.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    <img src="http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1157/circletunnel003.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Greetings,
    Xtof
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    Good method and good result.
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  • DrownDrown Underwater Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10392Members
    hmm, I've tried this a few times but for some reason 60% of my faces won't create a face... it might be because I can't seem to get the faces perfect... if only I could merge verticies or designate an exact angle for a piece of geometry to turn rather than do it by hand... oh well I don't really need this just now, was toying to see if I could do it though.
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  • XtofXtof Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15514Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1742413:date=Dec 4 2009, 05:58 PM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Drown @ Dec 4 2009, 05:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742413"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hmm, I've tried this a few times but for some reason 60% of my faces won't create a face... it might be because I can't seem to get the faces perfect... if only I could merge verticies or designate an exact angle for a piece of geometry to turn rather than do it by hand... oh well I don't really need this just now, was toying to see if I could do it though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    In my experience you have to follow those rules:

    Indeed it is possible that your face isn't perfect
    => see if you don't have selected hidden lines, that are left over because you deleted stuff but not completly or that you just drew by hand (that might cause that you "think" you have selected all the lines to create a circle/face, but you really haven't)

    => an obvious thing, but you can only create a face while in the "select"-mode, and not for instance in the "move"-object mode. Obvious, but worth mentioning.

    => perhaps the face was created on the other side?!? Also obvious, but one never knows.

    Just my thought ;-)

    Greetings,
    Xtof
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  • LoeyLoey Join Date: 2009-10-31 Member: 69187Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1742413:date=Dec 5 2009, 01:28 AM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Drown @ Dec 5 2009, 01:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742413"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hmm, I've tried this a few times but for some reason 60% of my faces won't create a face... it might be because I can't seem to get the faces perfect... if only I could merge verticies or designate an exact angle for a piece of geometry to turn rather than do it by hand... oh well I don't really need this just now, was toying to see if I could do it though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    when did you need to create faces? i found that if you started with a cylinder and extruded, once you i got to the end it was just selected all and flip face to hollow out the cylinder
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  • XtofXtof Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15514Members
    You don't need to create faces to make the tunnel... but "Drown" was having difficulties creating faces...
    I never said that you HAD to create a face to make this tunnel, I was just pointing out where the possible causes of failing to succeed could be that I know of for creating faces.

    Greetings,
    Xtof
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  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1742430:date=Dec 4 2009, 02:20 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loey @ Dec 4 2009, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->when did you need to create faces? i found that if you started with a cylinder and extruded, once you i got to the end it was just selected all and flip face to hollow out the cylinder<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I did that alot at first. Extrude in the opposite direction, instant hollow cylinder ;)
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  • LoeyLoey Join Date: 2009-10-31 Member: 69187Members
    you would then have to continually extrude from the inside yeah? i find the inside view awkward for extruding. at what stage are you missing faces drown?
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