Spark Editor - Something just occured to me
WhiteZero
That Guy Join Date: 2004-06-24 Member: 29511Members, Constellation
That Guy Join Date: 2004-06-24 Member: 29511Members, Constellation
From what we can assume, the Spart editor we're all using now is basically the same as the one available to the devs of UWE. I'd say this can be safely said because why would they give us a gimped version for testing if they aren't going to implement it.
Anyway... if this is true, that means Map development for the actual game is still pretty early. UWE can probably actually run around their maps with other software, but aside from that their just as limited as us. Oh well, we all know Beta/Release is still pretty far off anyway, but it kind of gives us an insight into how far development really is.
Anyway... if this is true, that means Map development for the actual game is still pretty early. UWE can probably actually run around their maps with other software, but aside from that their just as limited as us. Oh well, we all know Beta/Release is still pretty far off anyway, but it kind of gives us an insight into how far development really is.
Comments
The editor would seem to only have a couple of people using it, which really doesn't help debugging the issues it has, as it would be difficult to debug issues that you wouldn't normally come across when you do things a certain way every time.
The problem with consistency is the inability to plan for inconsistency :P There will be no major issues once the alpha is release imo, as they'll have a few hundred people dumping their crash dumps on them to fix XD
Right, thats what I'm saying.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The editor would seem to only have a couple of people using it, which really doesn't help debugging the issues it has, as it would be difficult to debug issues that you wouldn't normally come across when you do things a certain way every time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A <b>couple</b> people? The Editor was launched (by people with active internet connections) 10,000 times in the first 13 hours after launch. There has got to be at least 1,000 people using it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem with consistency is the inability to plan for inconsistency :P There will be no major issues once the alpha is release imo, as they'll have a few hundred people dumping their crash dumps on them to fix XD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For a pre-alpha, custom made application, the Editor is running fantastically. Thats not what I'm talking about though. I'm just commenting on how far along UWE is based on the features of the Editor at this time.
I think you may have missed the point here...
<!--QuoteBegin-Eldritch+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eldritch)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, if you think about it there are plenty of reasons for them to give us a "gimped" version. Judging by what I've seen thus far, there must be some features missing (External Tools).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. I think Max is smart (genius) enough to know that when you edit one bit of code somewhere, it can effect a seemingly unrelated piece of code elsewhere. Thusly, it would only make sense to give us a clone of what they have or whatever they intend to release to the public in the end.
Another thing is, the official NS mappers probably have a lot of assets to work with that are not in the current build of the Spark Editor. I would guess that they have a lot more models, textures, and entities at their disposal than what was released with the first public build of the Spark Editor.
Another thing is, the official NS mappers probably have a lot of assets to work with that are not in the current build of the Spark Editor. I would guess that they have a lot more models, textures, and entities at their disposal than what was released with the first public build of the Spark Editor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. But I'm not talking about assets, I'm talking about base functionality. Such as the properties of lighting and geometry.
I agree, Max is genius. That's why I'm sure he uses a more modular design in his coding.
IE: Ambient effects or whatever it is.
From what I've seen in other news posts I would say they have a ###### load more things developed, just they are keeping it minimal in what we use that is known to be stable rather than still buggy.
Why release everything and get bug reports for stuff they already KNOW is buggy?
I've seen games /tools released that in public is one build, in private is another.
Have been involved with some private testing in said situation of a private version of a game -vs- public version.
Private version was far more stable, public version was targetted to certain things under stress testing.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of what we're doing now is mainly giving varying system stats and performance feedback finding what crashes it at what points so they can code the app to be more flexible...
EDIT: I just remembered, it's already been stated that the public build is missing a few things... So my thoughts / theory above stands.
From what i've seen in the screen shot thread, the geometry controls are pretty good, it seems like people have been able to do quite a lot.
But to address what i think you're saying: When doing anything as part of a team or collaboration where you depend on other members to do their job before you can finish yours, there is always time periods where you need to wait for a teammate to do something before you can do a certain thing that you want to do. What most people do in that situation is to work on something else in the mean time, and use placeholders or workarounds as a temporary solution. For example, if you wanted to make a room with 'animated' lighting, but the programmer hadn't implemented that feature into the tools yet, you would make a note of that and do something else until that feature is implemented into the tools.
What i'm trying to say is, adding certain features to your set of tools is done on a hierarchical basis. Things with the highest priority are figured out first, and things that are lower priority are finished later. The vast majority of level creation consists of mapping the faces of the environment (in the case of NS2 spark editor, done on a poly-by-poly basis), lighting the environment, texturing the environment, and populating the environment with props, entities, triggers, etc.
Now, the NS2 Spark Editor is still a work in progress at the moment. However, even now, it really does have all the bases covered when it comes to the bare essentials of what you need to create a level/map. You can make faces, lighting, apply textures, add models, and create some 'entities' (or whatever you choose to call them). If you wanted to, you could create your entire layout, texture everything, and add models and basic lighting. These things are the bulk of the mapping process. Once you have all these things finished you have the bare bones of your map. So if you are waiting for your coder to finish implementing a certain lighting feature into the tools. Or if you are waiting for a modeler or texture artist to finish some asset that you want to put into your map. Once those things are finished, it really only would take a few minutes/hours to add them to your level. If you know you have a hallway where you want flickering lights, you can make all the lights before hand, and when the tool is updated with that new feature, it only takes a few seconds to open up the lighting options and change a few settings around.
These small details and aesthetic features will be added eventually, so if you plan ahead, you can get a lot done without interrupting your work flow. The most important thing is that even in the current build of the editor, you have all the resources to get the vast majority of your map done. Believe me, by the time you get an entire layout's worth of polygons in place, and by the time you get everything textured and put down some basic lighting in your map, they will have updated the tools to add some of the features that you had to delay adding.
And by the time the game is released (even in alpha and beta releases), im sure the Spark Editor will have a lot more features under the hood. Unknown Worlds is a small but highly skilled team, and they have a lot on their plate. They will be adding features to their mapping tools as they find out what they need to get done sooner and what they can put off until later.
Just curious though if the properties on lighting is something that have been scaled down in the public release? I was expecting ways to control the light with flickering, glow, fade and whatnot, but right now it's steady lighting only. Intended or is this something that will be patched in later?