Natural Selection II and ATI Eyefinity
Angelusz
Harmonic entropist Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
Harmonic entropist Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">A match made in heaven, if you ask me.</div>So. I think the topic title almost sais it all.
At home, I'm using a 3x 22" tft setup for my pc. Outside of games this is very convenient for several things, but with the release of the new ATI 58XX Series, it just got a whole lot more interesting.
As many people will know, HL2 supports eyefinity just fine, offering a whole new experience in terms of gaming.
Will NS2 support Eyefinity as well - and how?
If it's yet uncertain, what do people think, should NS2 support it, or would most people consider it wasted time?
Personally, I think it'd be a great way to present the game and engine to the "hardcore" gaming scene.
For more information on eyefinity, here's ATI's site:
<a href="http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/eyefinity/Pages/eyefinity.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologie.../eyefinity.aspx</a>
And a preview ingame:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHxY8l00io&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHxY8l00io...player_embedded</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04dMyeMKHp4&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04dMyeMKHp4...player_embedded</a>
At home, I'm using a 3x 22" tft setup for my pc. Outside of games this is very convenient for several things, but with the release of the new ATI 58XX Series, it just got a whole lot more interesting.
As many people will know, HL2 supports eyefinity just fine, offering a whole new experience in terms of gaming.
Will NS2 support Eyefinity as well - and how?
If it's yet uncertain, what do people think, should NS2 support it, or would most people consider it wasted time?
Personally, I think it'd be a great way to present the game and engine to the "hardcore" gaming scene.
For more information on eyefinity, here's ATI's site:
<a href="http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/eyefinity/Pages/eyefinity.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologie.../eyefinity.aspx</a>
And a preview ingame:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHxY8l00io&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHxY8l00io...player_embedded</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04dMyeMKHp4&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04dMyeMKHp4...player_embedded</a>
Comments
It feels a lot more natural when you have 3 monitors instead of 2, your crosshair is in the center, and feels more like maybe you're in a mech suit :P
Iv dabbled in using multiple displays in games and the one inch gap between monitors just bugged the hell out of me. That just my own feelings, so if they implement something like this I probably would not use it.
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Exactly, it looks extremely stupid with the black bars everywhere. I cannot see how someone can find that enjoyable.
Now I understand if like the center screen is the game, and the left+right screens were like your backpack and stats screen in like Diablo 2, that I could see using myself.
But 1 picture split into 2/3/4/6 parts, looks kind of silly. As you can see in this video, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHxY8l00io&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHxY8l00io...player_embedded</a>, at 00:00:49 the ingame screen doesn't line up properly with the monitors. (Look at the silver cockpit casing around the screen, it isn't realigning the ingame hud correctly.)
I think you'd be surprised. As BloodyIron's post (quoted below) suggests, I don't think very much is needed to implement this feature. And on the contrary, it's such a new engine, wouldn't it be no more than natural that it's compatible with the latest technology?
<!--quoteo(post=1737832:date=Nov 16 2009, 03:46 PM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Nov 16 2009, 03:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I imagine this would fall under "Fun to play with, but not worth delaying the game to implement"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This too comes down to the point of "how hard is it to implement?". Lets face it, if it takes a lot of time and effort, I - and probably most others - agree it shouldn't be implemented in the first version. But then they <b>are</b> writing an entire engine from scratch. I'd say it wouldn't be hard for them to implement anything at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1737840:date=Nov 16 2009, 04:55 PM:name=BloodyIron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BloodyIron @ Nov 16 2009, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737840"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Depending on implementation I think it would be easier than credit given. I am not a developer, but I'm sure it's simply allowing the game to render such high resolutions, and adjust FOV's of course. Most engines can already handle this as they now have multiple aspect ratios to support: 4:3 16:9 16:10, as well as if someone wants to run windowed in a custom res. EG: 1680x800 (lol).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as I've been able to find, the only real support it actually needs is indeed the different aspect ratio. Naturally, the game looks much different if it's stretched to three times its normal width. Funny detail though, the driver and hardware are able to adjust the images on the side monitors to give a "tunnel" effect. So you wouldn't actually need 3x the normal width. Might you think that'll look bad - yes, if you look directly at one of the side screens, but when watching the main screen it actually makes it look much more natural. It's hard to describe.
<!--quoteo(post=1737849:date=Nov 16 2009, 05:14 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Nov 16 2009, 05:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly, it looks extremely stupid with the black bars everywhere. I cannot see how someone can find that enjoyable.
Now I understand if like the center screen is the game, and the left+right screens were like your backpack and stats screen in like Diablo 2, that I could see using myself.
But 1 picture split into 2/3/4/6 parts, looks kind of silly. As you can see in this video, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHxY8l00io&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHxY8l00io...player_embedded</a>, at 00:00:49 the ingame screen doesn't line up properly with the monitors. (Look at the silver cockpit casing around the screen, it isn't realigning the ingame hud correctly.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First the black bars. I agree partially, they can indeed be annoying if they're too big. Yet rejoice! Samsung is very close to releasing a line of monitors that has nearly no edge, specifically designed to work with Eyefinity! There's one problem out of the way. As for the alignment - just because they didn't set it up perfectly at one Expo, doesn't mean it can't be done.
Hmm. You do have a point there. If the resolution is much wider, but the image not stretched, then indeed there's simply more to see.
Honestly though, I'm not absolutely sure as to how it works in FPS games. I currently don't have an Eyefinity setup, just 3 monitors on 2 GPU's.
I do know that some FPS games are supported, as you can see in the link at the bottom of my last post.
(P.S. Thank you kungfudiscomonkey.)
•Flight Sim and Racing Games: Create the ultimate flight or racing simulation platform by extending supported games across multiple displays for a panoramic view that gives you a true sense of height and speed.3,4
•Role-playing Games (RPG): Get a birds-eye view and spread out game information across multiple screens and still stay in the center of the action.3,4
•Real-time strategy (RTS): See more of the battlefield without having to zoom.3,4
<b>•First-Person Shooter (FPS): Get a better view of whats going on around you, use your peripheral vision so you can see the enemy before they see you.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's only good for single player, anyway. It's a bit silly to suggest it for any type of MP game.
As far as development goes, I was under the impression that most "modern" games are built to support the resolution that Windows runs at, which is why L4D (and other HL2 games) fires up at 5760x1200 right out of the box (allbeit with a VERY large amount of stretch on the peripheral screens). TF2 even has a customizable HUD which would allow you to put everything where you want in a triple monitor setup. While I don't think that it, if it were to be something that had to be extensively developed, should be a must-have option for release, I simply don't think it would be as big of a hassle that it's being made out to be. The real problem would come in the top-down commander views and how to work with a dual or triple monitor setup for that.
I know there's another thread that was about customizing NS options to optimize your experience as well as giving you a competitive edge and I am not sure that a triple monitor setup would really give anyone a huge advantage. If anything, it can be distracting (bezels, awful stretching, etc) and I doubt many hardcore (or highly skilled) gamers are looking to Eyefinity for that next edge. Hell, just because I can run Starcraft at 1080p (which I can, it's MUCH better than the default resolution) doesn't mean I can beat a skilled player running at default even though I can see like 3 times the amount of map as he can.
EDIT: If anything, it would be nice to see it tested for NS2 in alpha. Either it works or it doesn't and it might be an easy thing for the devs to accommodate (and it might not) but I would love to see it at least tried and I know someone on these forums will have an Eyefinity setup by the time Alpha rolls around.
Second edit: I looked up some comparison shots and there might be a...slight... advantage to those running an Eyefinity setup.
<a href="http://img23.imageshack.us/i/eyecomp.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3484/eyecomp.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
The top is a 30" monitor running widescreen, the bottom is 3 24" monitors. Note that the middle monitors are essentially the same and the peripheral monitors add a huge range of immersion/vision. The question is: would you really care if someone you're playing against paid upwards of $1500 for graphics cards and monitors just to see a little more of the battlefield? I wouldn't complain really because a) I plan on having a setup like that of my own and b) I play for fun, so why do I care? If it really matters, force all clients to use 1024x768 with the same graphical settings (obviously bare minimum) so everyone is on a level playing field. The devs are working hard to make NS2 look beautiful, why can't it look beautiful in Triple HD? :) /walloftext(sorry)
For the same reasons FOV commands are always locked or at least limited...?
L4D, L4D2, TF2, CS:S etc. all allow for Eyefinity setups and they're multiplayer online games. Don't forget that sound and your actual skill and knowledge in-game is just as important as your FOV. Like I said before, if it's easy to implement then why not? If it's hard to implement, look to add it in down the road (when multi-monitor setups have higher adoption).
Browse some comparison shots (choose "Surround Comparison" drop-down for triple monitor comparisons):
<a href="http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/screenshots/cs-source-th2go.php" target="_blank">http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/scree...ource-th2go.php</a>
EDIT: Check out Far Cry. Not a huge difference in FOV but for people who like the higher resolution it's a decent solution.
Second EDIT:
<!--quoteo(post=1738149:date=Nov 18 2009, 01:04 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 18 2009, 01:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1738149"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Triplehead 2 Go != Eyefinity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, but they are somewhat comparable right?
Sound* > multiple monitors (and less expensive)
In the world of games -> Simulators, RTS, (MMO)RPG on the other hand... This is probably where it would shine, but even so. All of this is already possible atm...
and of course office stuff and artwork/modeling...
*
- In combination with good settings
- And something along the lines of Senheisser headphones...
-- I've seen a lot of people who are simply deaf from behind, using surround settings for headphones :P
Yes, but that would be harder to fix in Eyefinity, as it's not intended to act as a multiple-monitor setup, but as three monitors acting like a single one. They could implement it, but the trick would have the be that those tools on the side would only be rendered at the high enough resolutions.
As for the comparison shots for normal and widescreen - it's often already a difference. Yes, it would give slight edge for some players. But I agree - sound always works better.
I say we put panoramic gaming on hold until we can use VR GLASSES (or a VR helmet) for it, rather than using this gi-normous waste of energy and material (and money).
Examples:
<a href="http://theslrevolution.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/virtual-reality-helmet1.jpg" target="_blank">http://theslrevolution.files.wordpress.com...ity-helmet1.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.stereo3d.com/siemensglobalplayer_s.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.stereo3d.com/siemensglobalplayer_s.jpg</a>
Here's a stupid one for humor =P <a href="http://dylansurridge.com/panographer/2006/11/toshiba-new-vr-helmet.html" target="_blank">http://dylansurridge.com/panographer/2006/...-vr-helmet.html</a>
From CES 2010
<img src="http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/nvidia-key-0425.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
That and the UI would need to some tweaking to be displayed on the Center monitor. They already have it working with a few steam games already.
Some people have good peripheral vision and might like it. Sure it gives them an FOV edge but were playing video games to immerse ourselves in another world.
If we were playing competitively. okay fine, use a mandatory resolution. But heck, were just trying to enjoy games? why not have monitors up the wahzoo.
triple monitor setup seems like a good combination.
I heard great waste of energy somewhere. Everything is a waste of energy depending on where your opinion stands. If you don't like it, don't do it. IMO america has too many big cars. Nothing you can do about it.
A few moments ago I've downloaded the Techdemo from Steam. The Last time I ran it, I didn't have those 3 monitors I think.
Well...this is how it looks like with 3
<img src="http://www.abload.de/img/naturalselection2ultrazjmw.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The game will need a global adjustment on all weapons or the FOV with ultra wide resolutions.
Actually I think eyefinity-compatible games have become a reason to buy the game or not. At least to all the eyefinity users of course.
It is a great way to present the game in a new dimension, it shows that it's modern (Bad Company2, AvP, DoW2, Crysis...hell even games like Freespace2 can do it).
Should not be underestimated.
NS2 menu 5232x1050:
<img src="http://www.abload.de/img/naturalselectionmenueyhwk4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
all there is to implement is support for extra resolutions. that's all.
I want to play 3D + eyefinity (3D surround) :p