Unity3D is now free

brcaswellbrcaswell Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69181Members
edited November 2009 in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Current & Future Developers Must-See</div>So, a friend of mine pointed this out to me.

Overview URL:
<a href="http://unity3d.com/unity" target="_blank">http://unity3d.com/unity</a>

News URL:
<a href="http://unity3d.com/company/news" target="_blank">http://unity3d.com/company/news</a> (note Oct 28, 2009)

Licensing Link:
<a href="http://unity3d.com/unity/licenses" target="_blank">http://unity3d.com/unity/licenses</a>

Article On Small Business that utilize Unity3D:
<a href="http://unity3d.com/support/resources/articles/casual-business" target="_blank">http://unity3d.com/support/resources/artic...casual-business</a>

UW, if only this dropped sooner eh?

I would like to hear your opinion on this matter.

[edit/update - I'm adding the following information]

Developers, Free to download, and buying licensing are two different things, of course! [Topic Post should have read ...'free to download', however, I seem to be unable to edit it.]

$1,500.00 is the going price for a Pro licensing,

$3,000.00+ (for 2 licenses) would be the likely cost estimate for a AAA titled game(100k in revenue sales requires the Pro licensing).

It takes money to make money.

End User License:
<a href="http://unity3d.com/unity/unity-end-user-license-2.x" target="_blank">http://unity3d.com/unity/unity-end-user-license-2.x</a> (3rd party libraries are mentioned at the bottom.)

Comments

  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1737164:date=Nov 10 2009, 09:48 PM:name=brcaswell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brcaswell @ Nov 10 2009, 09:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737164"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UW, if only this dropped sooner eh?

    I would like to hear your opinion on this matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hell no.

    This is coming from someone who has used Unity, and yes, it has it's place... but UWE is so much better off with an engine more suited to a 'core game.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    I concur w/ Psyke.
  • brcaswellbrcaswell Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69181Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737166:date=Nov 11 2009, 12:26 AM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Nov 11 2009, 12:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737166"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hell no.

    This is coming from someone who has used Unity, and yes, it has it's place... but UWE is so much better off with an engine more suited to a 'core game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    As I'm currently evaluating Unity, I'd like to know what 'place', or limitation you're referring to. Which version of unity were you using?

    Now, when you say 'UWE is so much better off with an engine more suited to a core game,' are you speaking theoretically, or idealistically? I'm not only skeptical enough to doubt that you are in any way familiar with the current unity engine(s), but I'm quite positive you are completely unfamiliar with, and incapable of making such a comparison to, UWE's engines, as they aren't even fully developed yet.

    Spellman, what exactly are you concurring to?

    You've claimed experience, so i'd like to hear some details.. thank you in advance.
  • EndEnd Join Date: 2003-11-11 Member: 22566Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited November 2009
    from the list of features that the Spark Engine (NS2 Game Engine) have

    From <a href="http://www.moddb.com/engines/spark" target="_blank">http://www.moddb.com/engines/spark</a>

    * Real-time, in-place editing with no waiting or compilation
    * All tools let you work with final results in front of you. All tools hot-load into the game as well so if you save your work while the game is running, you can see your changes in-game.
    * Lua script based for the same reasons - add new weapons or game elements while the game is running.
    * Keep dependencies between systems to a minimum to allow them to be used independently and in novel ways
    * Allow content creators to work the way they want to work - don't impose a specific pipeline or workflow

    Spark includes:

    * A simple, powerful level editor
    * Cinematic editor (used to build our teaser)
    * Art builder tool (no more command-line, just save in 3DS Max, Maya, Photoshop, etc.)
    * Decoda (Lua script IDE)

    then i must say that the Spark Engine look way better then any other Game Engine there is out tooday free or not.

    Allso Unity 3d is mosted used to game's for iPhone's (or that is what it look like and most people around say about Unity 3d)
  • sheena_yanaisheena_yanai Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11426Members
    edited November 2009
    isnt the unity 3d engine the same they use for interstellar marines aswell? it doesnt look THAT bad, and that damn engine is able to run inside of firefox , supports on the fly content streaming and stuff...

    <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sEg1b_tciDA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sEg1b_tciDA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>



    <a href="http://www.interstellarmarines.com/game/the-vault/" target="_blank">http://www.interstellarmarines.com/game/the-vault/</a>
    it should download the unity web browser plugin needed to run the interactive showcase, fullscreen looks neat, but i guess in the stand alone engine it will look even better.
    and the megalodon dropship is just sweet D:
  • brcaswellbrcaswell Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69181Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737236:date=Nov 11 2009, 02:29 PM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ Nov 11 2009, 02:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->isnt the unity 3d engine the same they use for interstellar marines aswell? it doesnt look THAT bad, and that damn engine is able to run inside of firefox , supports on the fly content streaming and stuff...

    <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sEg1b_tciDA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sEg1b_tciDA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>



    <a href="http://www.interstellarmarines.com/game/the-vault/" target="_blank">http://www.interstellarmarines.com/game/the-vault/</a>
    it should download the unity web browser plugin needed to run the interactive showcase, fullscreen looks neat, but i guess in the stand alone engine it will look even better.
    and the megalodon dropship is just sweet D:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    yeah, their using unity engine. In fact, they may be using a prior version of the engine. They are probably pretty excited about the update at the end of last month. As it listings bug fixes and editor performance optimizations.

    It seems that interstellar marines game has been in the works since at least may 2006.
  • brcaswellbrcaswell Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69181Members
    edited November 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1737184:date=Nov 11 2009, 05:07 AM:name=End)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (End @ Nov 11 2009, 05:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737184"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->from the list of features that the Spark Engine (NS2 Game Engine) have

    From <a href="http://www.moddb.com/engines/spark" target="_blank">http://www.moddb.com/engines/spark</a>

    * Real-time, in-place editing with no waiting or compilation
    * All tools let you work with final results in front of you. All tools hot-load into the game as well so if you save your work while the game is running, you can see your changes in-game.
    * Lua script based for the same reasons - add new weapons or game elements while the game is running.
    * Keep dependencies between systems to a minimum to allow them to be used independently and in novel ways
    * Allow content creators to work the way they want to work - don't impose a specific pipeline or workflow

    Spark includes:

    * A simple, powerful level editor
    * Cinematic editor (used to build our teaser)
    * Art builder tool (no more command-line, just save in 3DS Max, Maya, Photoshop, etc.)
    * Decoda (Lua script IDE)

    then i must say that the Spark Engine look way better then any other Game Engine there is out tooday free or not.

    Allso Unity 3d is mosted used to game's for iPhone's (or that is what it look like and most people around say about Unity 3d)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No, it really doesn't look better than any other game engine by that description, as level editors and art builder tools don't tell me anything about the engines and performance. However, the lua script based and none-specific pipeline are relevant and intriguing.

    People seem to have a bit of confusion about what a game engine actually is, so here is the informal definition from Wikipedia:

    "A game engine is a software system designed for the creation and development of video games. There are many game engines that are designed to work on video game consoles and desktop operating systems such as Microsoft Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X. The core functionality typically provided by a game engine includes a rendering engine (“renderer”) for 2D or 3D graphics, a physics engine or collision detection (and collision response), sound, scripting, animation, artificial intelligence, networking, streaming, memory management, threading, and a scene graph. The process of game development is frequently economized by in large part reusing the same game engine to create different games"

    Does spark even have a physics engine? What about the memory management and threading? Last, but not least, what about networking and streaming (file and packet). It's great to render a scene in an editor, and have a bunch of tools to generate content, but that doesn't qualify the capabilities of a multiplayer FPS game engine.


    Also, I would like you to take a look at the 'Recent Trends' category of the wikipedia article. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine#FPS_game_engines" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine#FPS_game_engines</a>

    UWE has set its course, and I don't suspect them to alter it. So if you're posting in reference to UWE's currently development, save it.

    This Topic Post is for current and future game developers in general. Don't copy and paste some obscure feature list and call it the best thing out there, because it most certainly is not informative enough to boaster such a claim. Thank you.
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1737177:date=Nov 10 2009, 11:49 PM:name=brcaswell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brcaswell @ Nov 10 2009, 11:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737177"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As I'm currently evaluating Unity, I'd like to know what 'place', or limitation you're referring to. Which version of unity were you using?

    Now, when you say 'UWE is so much better off with an engine more suited to a core game,' are you speaking theoretically, or idealistically? I'm not only skeptical enough to doubt that you are in any way familiar with the current unity engine(s), but I'm quite positive you are completely unfamiliar with, and incapable of making such a comparison to, UWE's engines, as they aren't even fully developed yet.

    Spellman, what exactly are you concurring to?

    You've claimed experience, so i'd like to hear some details.. thank you in advance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Heh, I'm being called out.

    I used it in around May, one of the first PC version releases. My problem with Unity is that programmers don't code on it; they script. You have no access to the lower level stuff. This, like everything else, is a trade-off. What Unity does, it does well. Because of how fast it is to develop on, and no-compiling debugging, it's very popular for iphone games. It's also great for artists because of some of its features such as its ability to load in 3ds files directly, handling the conversion for you, and observing the file so if it ever changes, the updates immediately propagate. All my friends who are huge Unity fans happen to be artists/technical artists.

    Now, though you are right I can't compare it with an engine I have never seen, I <b>can</b> give my assessment on how viable Unity is for a core game. UWE has made the right call by writing their own engine. In doing so, they have the ability to very carefully define everything to a very high level of detail. This includes the physics, netcode, and the rendering pipeline. UWE has decided to use LUA for their game code, for the same reason that people like Unity (no compiling required), but they still have access to the lower levels. I believe this level of control is essential for creating an excellent core game, and I know UWE is not going to be regretting their decision one bit.
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1737281:date=Nov 11 2009, 09:36 PM:name=brcaswell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brcaswell @ Nov 11 2009, 09:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This Topic Post is for current and future game developers in general. Don't copy and paste some obscure feature list and call it the best thing out there, because it most certainly is not informative enough to boaster such a claim. Thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If this is your purpose, then you should try a different tone. Right now you are acting hostile and essentially trying (and succeeding) to troll us.

    I agree End's post was weak, but I also do agree that Spark has much to offer. There are bigger engines out there that have had way more money go into them, but much of the value behind Spark is the ease of development stuff. Dynamic lights, no map compiling, easy to use level editor, LUA game code, flash integration for in-game menus... They've actually followed a similar path as Unity, but in a way that doesn't force them to give up the control. As a programmer, I really value that control. I don't want to be a slave to an engine, I would like the engine to work for me.
  • brcaswellbrcaswell Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69181Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737282:date=Nov 11 2009, 11:42 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Nov 11 2009, 11:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737282"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heh, I'm being called out.

    I used it in around May, one of the first PC version releases. My problem with Unity is that programmers don't code on it; they script. You have no access to the lower level stuff. This, like everything else, is a trade-off. What Unity does, it does well. Because of how fast it is to develop on, and no-compiling debugging, it's very popular for iphone games. It's also great for artists because of some of its features such as its ability to load in 3ds files directly, handling the conversion for you, and observing the file so if it ever changes, the updates immediately propagate. All my friends who are huge Unity fans happen to be artists/technical artists.

    Now, though you are right I can't compare it with an engine I have never seen, I <b>can</b> give my assessment on how viable Unity is for a core game. UWE has made the right call by writing their own engine. In doing so, they have the ability to very carefully define everything to a very high level of detail. This includes the physics, netcode, and the rendering pipeline. UWE has decided to use LUA for their game code, for the same reason that people like Unity (no compiling required), but they still have access to the lower levels. I believe this level of control is essential for creating an excellent core game, and I know UWE is not going to be regretting their decision one bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I see, well, thats a good point. I would think that anyone that chooses a middleware company like Unity3D, would have more of a designers mentality. Though, I believe you can get access to the source code, if you're licensed. Irregardless, it seems you can get access to the 3d party libraries and shader source codes.
  • brcaswellbrcaswell Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69181Members
    edited November 2009
    Perhaps I have been coming off a bit brash. However, this post was supposed to be informative based. I hardly appreciate the bias remarks, coupled with illusion of legitimacy. The only thing worse than a negative, is a false positive.

    Such remarks warrant troll responses, because if I don't challenge it in a degrading or confrontational manner, some read is going to believe a statement based on a semantical, illegitimate point.

    Personally, I wouldn't waste my time on it, if wasn't my informative topic post.


    I suppose my point is, less generalizations, more details. Don't point out something as a matter of fact because of subsequent irrelevant facts, or consequently.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    and once again Psyke beat me to the punch. *grumble grumble*.

    In short, Yay quick development. However, yay deep control over your engine for your needs!

    Guess someone should implement NS2 in the Unity3D engine and we can benchmark!
  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester
    Yeah well, I think that trying to nail down some definition of what a "true" engine is can be a semantic argument, too. It's like the so called solid line that separates business logic from the rest of the design. I just don't get it. We're no where near the point where engines are huge rubber stamps that will fulfill the requirements of every type of game you want to create. If we ever get there, we'll only have one engine, because that's all we'll need - and I'm sure you'd write games by thinking about them instead of actually doing work.

    Abstractions and API layers are great and all for software engineering, but there are still many places where counting machine instructions and other resources like precious gold must still be done in order make a product that works happily.
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    edited November 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1737284:date=Nov 11 2009, 10:00 PM:name=brcaswell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brcaswell @ Nov 11 2009, 10:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737284"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would think that anyone that chooses a middleware company like Unity3D, would have more of a designers mentality.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree. Designers and artists love Unity. :-)

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Though, I believe you can get access to the source code, if you're licensed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't believe that to be true. The license merely allows for one to publish commercial games using the Unity engine. If I recall correctly, there is a basic license which puts a Unity splash screen at the start of the game, and a pro license which makes the use of Unity invisible to the end user.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Irregardless, it seems you can get access to the 3d party libraries and shader source codes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hehe, that first word is illogical, check this out: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless</a>

    That's cool if you can add shaders to it. I never got that deep into Unity.

    <!--quoteo(post=1737292:date=Nov 11 2009, 11:30 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Nov 11 2009, 11:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737292"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Guess someone should implement NS2 in the Unity3D engine and we can benchmark!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't think there would be that great of a difference in performance as both run the game logic using scripts. I think that the difference will be how "tight" the game feels.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1737343:date=Nov 12 2009, 11:06 AM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Nov 12 2009, 11:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737343"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think there would be that great of a difference in performance as both run the game logic using scripts. I think that the difference will be how "tight" the game feels.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Memory loading/caching/leaks, control responsiveness, netcode, render pipelines, bonuses for extra visual rendering powers, straight FPS rating, I think we could make a nice pseudo-heuristic.
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    It also depends how UWE does it, for example, if they are hard coding in some math-heavy/cpu-heavy functions in c++ and just calling them from LUA, they can achieve much greater speeds, despite their logic not being pre-compiled.
  • ZeroByteZeroByte Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3057Members
    The programmers where I work seem to prefer Unity over a "real" game engine like CryTech but that might just be from the level of documentation they are able to access. You can code on Unity in C# and use Visual C# so it doesn't feel too different for programmers. I liked mucking about with it in Boo cause the language is Python like myself but I'm more on the art side.

    Having a real time editor is a big plus once you get your head around the inherent limitations it places on the programmers. I really did not like not being able to instantiate objects whichever way I pleased in Unity but I was able to work around it in the end. As much as I sort of liked Unity though, I'm probably going to stick my hobbyhorse the <a href="http://panda3d.org/" target="_blank">Panda3D engine</a>. It's BSD licensed, its getting a webplayer in the next version, and an editor is being worked on right now. And it runs on all 3 major OS' right now.

    The big plus for me with sticking with Panda though is I can program shaders for free. The free version of Unity doesn't quite give you access to render textures which let you do interesting experiments.
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