Thanks for the reply S_L_A_P. I stand by my previous statement of time vs. budget, however.
<!--quoteo(post=1735470:date=Nov 2 2009, 06:11 AM:name=JAmazon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAmazon @ Nov 2 2009, 06:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735470"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fact that NS2 might be developed in its entirety over the course of less than a year is actually a point of concern<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can that possibly be a point of concern, when it's already been developed for more than a year? o_O
BadMouthIt ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titlJoin Date: 2004-05-21Member: 28815Members
I think NS2 has been "officially" been worked on for less than a year. So I hope they can grace us with a full version release by the end of 2010, if it does indeed take 2 years to make a game. And hopefully, an alpha in the coming months.
I am sure they will still be releasing an alpha or beta some time before the full release as they need data from those tests to ensure that the game ships with no glitches.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
The NS team has never disappointed me in the past and I for one am glad they are taking the time to get it right rather than be pressured into rushing it out the door before its done. Even the little things can make a huge difference. The NS team seems to be pretty independent comparatively to other big game companys and they do a great job. If I have to wait a bit longer Im sure it will be for the better.
<!--quoteo(post=1735470:date=Nov 2 2009, 02:11 PM:name=JAmazon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAmazon @ Nov 2 2009, 02:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735470"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fact that NS2 might be developed in its entirety over the course of less than a year is actually a point of concern. Their is a difference between getting something done fast and getting something done right, and in the computer game industry the two are seldom synonymous. Now by the looks of it, UWE has spent a lot of time making the spark engine incredibly easy to create content for, so for all we know the hard stuff is over and they just need to work on the game-play facade to lay over the engines backbone. That would be an ideal scenario.
Games with short development cycles I usually associate with overdone franchises, that release wave after wave of sequels and expansion packs under some publishers shovel-ware business model. I like to think that NS2 is a labor of love for UWE so this kind of "get it done and out the door $$$" approach won't be the case.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this. If the game is created years faster than other similar games, it can be due to any of the three reasons:
1) Other companies spent months or years on doing stuff other than developing their games. 2) The UWE staff is working incredibly hard (and probably consuming incredibly large quantities of coffee). 3) The game has fewer things to code than other games.
The first is quite likely, the second is probable. The third is possible too, which worries me. At a time when most FPS players are used to the standards set by L4D, COD4 and other such games, it is hard to get more new players if NS2 isn't exactly on par with the competitors. At the very least it will be compared with other similar FPS/RTS hybrids like Empires Mod (HL2) in terms of gameplay. I would, because I'm still playing both NS1 and Empires now. Despite the excellent graphics I'm seeing on the blog, I have no idea how the game is really like. Though many fans seem to want a remake of NS1, I'm one of those who do not, especially after trying other newer games.
Since I don't know what the gameplay is going to be like, and apparently UWE has created the game pretty quickly to be sold at a low price of $20, the conclusion I'm reaching does not appear to be good.
<!--quoteo(post=1735483:date=Nov 2 2009, 05:39 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Nov 2 2009, 05:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm used to valve's 'five more minutes' approach to release dates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They really have set the ground work for all games to be delayed and for me to not get too worked up about it.
<!--quoteo(post=1736340:date=Nov 5 2009, 03:36 PM:name=senor_hybrido)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (senor_hybrido @ Nov 5 2009, 03:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->apparently UWE has created the game pretty quickly to be sold at a low price of $20, the conclusion I'm reaching does not appear to be good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand where you're coming from. Hasn't it been in development for 3-4 years, with the majority of the work having been done in the past year due to financing for contractors, full-time salaries, etc. ? If you go by the standard milestone structure of most games, you have 1) pre-alpha/vertical slice 2) alpha, 3) beta, 4) Lot check - at least thats the major ones. So by that metric, even if you ignore the previous non-full-time work done on the game and just say its been going for 1 year, they are somewhere between 1 and 2. 1 year, a liittle more than 1/4 done, for a total predicted development time of ~3 years. Like I said before, its kind of mystifying how you are drawing the conclusion that the game is being rushed, especially in response to the game being delayed in pre-alpha.
Well NS2 can be slightly rushed because they are only making two maps and one gamemode. They are going to rely on the community for everything else. So really if you think about it, once you add 500 community developers to the game the development speed goes up and we hit 1 year of progress a few months after release. So really, 1 and a half years for UWE's part and about 6 months to a year from the communities' part comes out to a standard 2 years of development from a game with no Single Player mode, no narrative, etc.
<!--quoteo(post=1735464:date=Nov 1 2009, 11:42 PM:name=halcoberry_hound)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (halcoberry_hound @ Nov 1 2009, 11:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735464"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont normally post, i normally only read the forums, but for you zex i made an exception for 2 reasons
first of all let me give you this link :P <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+long+does+a+game+take+to+develop" target="_blank">http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+long+does+a+game+take+to+develop</a>
^^^ thats a joke btw its the third link down
second this is the third link down if you struggle with it :P
have fun! and thanks for the post squeal, I have followed the game development and I think this thread has really shown that the majority of people are happy to wait. I am really amazed at the communitys ability to accept this change and take it as a positive. I am glad that more time is being taken to add the features in which I think will really set this game appart from the rest. Keep going and peace out zex, who dude, really needs to chill out :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WHAT?! According to the wiki article, they canceled Duke Nukem Forever in may this year... THOSE MO##@# FU@#!#$!!.. haha.. actually, why would they do that.. they could have just sold the game title to some other company who would have banked on finally releasing the legendary awaited game. Plus, their procrastination was legendary.. why would they throw away the legend?.. WHYYYY?!
It's funny.. because my other favorite FPS game (which actually got me into Multiplayer Online games) was Delta Force 2...
Novaworld was horrible in that they released a new game just about every 3 months. They released 2 games under the Delta Force title before they finally dropped a version that was even worth switching to, Delta Force: Black Hawk Down. DF2 outlasted that game in the end.
They simply outdated their games in record time.
A game like NS2 is going to be played for at least 5 years, by the players anyhow. Take your time to release something stable.
I don't think NS2 should come out until it's ready. If that isn't until next November, that's fine.(Probably a good release date too. Before the holiday rush, and near Halloween). The mod community will only be big if the community is big. Most modders want to make things people will actually get to enjoy, after all. So core gameplay must be solid. Good hit-detection, movement, resource model, building, accessibility, and such.
But I'd be happy to play an alpha that is missing 90% of partical effects, doesn't even have even weapon-firing animations, many buildings are just an untextured box, and you're getting stuck on places of the map.
<!--quoteo(post=1736714:date=Nov 8 2009, 02:55 AM:name=Megahalo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Megahalo @ Nov 8 2009, 02:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well NS2 can be slightly rushed because they are only making two maps and one gamemode. They are going to rely on the community for everything else. So really if you think about it, once you add 500 community developers to the game the development speed goes up and we hit 1 year of progress a few months after release. So really, 1 and a half years for UWE's part and about 6 months to a year from the communities' part comes out to a standard 2 years of development from a game with no Single Player mode, no narrative, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't bake a loaf of bread faster by adding more cooks...1 classic-mode NS1 map could easily take 6 months or more to make and balance (and honestly, these are never completely 'finished'. they can always be tweaked) My point is that you can change the amount of content that gets made (500 bakers can make a helluva lot of bread), but you can't really speed up the development cycle too much
or if you don't care for the bread analogy, getting 9 pregnant women doesn't reduce the length of....nvm
<!--quoteo(post=1736714:date=Nov 8 2009, 08:55 AM:name=Megahalo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Megahalo @ Nov 8 2009, 08:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well NS2 can be slightly rushed because they are only making two maps and one gamemode. They are going to rely on the community for everything else. So really if you think about it, once you add 500 community developers to the game the development speed goes up and we hit 1 year of progress a few months after release. So really, 1 and a half years for UWE's part and about 6 months to a year from the communities' part comes out to a standard 2 years of development from a game with no Single Player mode, no narrative, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh...sorry, but you make it sound like we are relying on the community to do half the work on NS2, here. A few additional maps and mods is not the same thing as creating the core game. The developers are handling all the art, programming, animation, sound, music, design, and as many maps as we can get done in the time before release (an exact number of maps hasn't been decided on yet). It's kind of like saying that the community helped create Halflife because they made some additional maps to download and popular mods like CS :)
<!--quoteo(post=1736347:date=Nov 5 2009, 11:29 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 5 2009, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736347"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't understand where you're coming from. Hasn't it been in development for 3-4 years<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Why keep arguing this point, what does it matter and what are you trying to achieve? You've already proven beyond a doubt that you have no idea about game development as you think games can be created in eight months.
2) With the exception of the past year it seems like UWE's focus was to create UWE, not NS2. Getting funding to create a company and developing the tools necessary to create NS2 take time. Combine this with the fact that this team is very small in comparison to the standard game development studio and it's not a mystery as to why an alpha release date was missed. You're confusing and combining the time it took UWE to create themselves with the the time its going to take them to release NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1735465:date=Nov 2 2009, 05:49 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 2 2009, 05:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its probably a fact, what do I know, but I can guarantee that no game with a 750,000 budget takes 2 years.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Two brothers each want to get their mother a cake for her birthday. Paul, being older and having more pocket money, goes to a bakery the day before and orders a cake. Peter, being younger and having less pocket money, goes out and buys the ingredients, bakes the cake and spends a long time decorating it to a high standard.
Mother likes both cakes, even though they didn't cost the same amount of money and one took longer to make than the other. The difference is that Peter's cake had far more risk associated with it; he might have overcooked it, or put in too much flour, made it too sweet or even messed up on the decorations.
UWE is already saving huge amounts of money by developing their own engine, relying on dedicated servers (most probably) and not having to pay any platform-holders for the privelege of putting their game in a 360 or PS3 box (or having a GfWL tag on it, I hope). How much money? At a guess about $1.5 million, or more.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Royalty-Bearing License - For retail console & PC products
A non-refundable, non-recoupable license fee is due on execution of the agreement. The cost is US $350,000 for one of the available Unreal Engine 2 platforms, plus US $50,000 for each additional platform. A royalty of 3% is due on all revenue from the game, calculated on the wholesale price of the product minus (for console SKUs) console manufacturer fees. In the case of massive-multiplayer online games, the royalty is also due on the additional forms of revenue including subscriptions and advertisements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Above is the current costs of a 'current-gen' license (Unreal 2), for a next-gen license it would be substantially more. To give two examples, recent releases of Unreal 2-powered games include <i>Brothers in Arms: Double Time</i> (on the Wii!) and indie game <i>Killing Floor</i>. The Spark engine has already shown it can muster more than this, and will have cost less to make than U2 because Max is almost certainly not paying himself what he's worth, the project/engine/company is a long-term investment.
<!--quoteo(post=1735038:date=Oct 31 2009, 03:07 PM:name=Rhodri)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rhodri @ Oct 31 2009, 03:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735038"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@ Mormy - no they didn't lie - they said they were aiming for a fall Alpha not that they were 100% going to have an Alpha ready. Wer're still getting our toolset which I'm more than happy with. And no they would not have been fired, or probably even chewed out - set backs and scheduale readjustments happen all the time in the games industry. It's very difficult to foresee every problem that will crop up or to estimate how long certain jobs will take, hence why games tend to have ESTIMATED release dates untill they near the end of production.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> wrong they were marketing on the other site as fall 2009 .. they did but sense most people would order it before coming to this site which all the updates are on here not on the games true web sites
<!--quoteo(post=1735186:date=Nov 1 2009, 01:11 AM:name=Snazz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Snazz @ Nov 1 2009, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735186"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't recall there being any deadlines promised, let alone an actual date.
If you can't handle an inexact delay (for the best of reasons) you shouldn't be pre-ordering games that aren't even in Alpha testing yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> watch there trailer and watch the end ... on their site thats a deadline false marketing so they did lie
<!--quoteo(post=1736340:date=Nov 5 2009, 11:36 AM:name=senor_hybrido)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (senor_hybrido @ Nov 5 2009, 11:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since I don't know what the gameplay is going to be like, and apparently UWE has created the game pretty quickly to be sold at a low price of $20, the conclusion I'm reaching does not appear to be good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sales price doesn't necessarily reflect how good the game is. This is a common misconception. As I see it... UWE is making a spectacular sequel to NS and they want to get it in as many hands as they possible can. To accomplish that, it seems they are making the game very affordable.
I bought Guild Wars for $50 back in the day and I never really like the game. I thought they did a lot of cheap tactics. (sorry people who like the game!) ...Yet with NS... a FREE Mod... I got hooked. I just find it funny how it's a popular misconception that spending more will always get you "more". Balderdash!
<!--quoteo(post=1736811:date=Nov 8 2009, 09:19 PM:name=Mormy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mormy @ Nov 8 2009, 09:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->watch there trailer and watch the end ... on their site thats a deadline false marketing so they did lie<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe you should look up the word lie in the dictionary and try again.
<!--quoteo(post=1736737:date=Nov 8 2009, 12:33 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 8 2009, 12:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uh...sorry, but you make it sound like we are relying on the community to do half the work on NS2, here. A few additional maps and mods is not the same thing as creating the core game. The developers are handling all the art, programming, animation, sound, music, design, and as many maps as we can get done in the time before release (an exact number of maps hasn't been decided on yet). It's kind of like saying that the community helped create Halflife because they made some additional maps to download and popular mods like CS :)
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I reread my original post and I see now it came off a little strong so let me try to fix this up. Of course NS2 will still be 95% UWE and maybe 5% community. I never meant for it to take away from all of the fantastic work that you guys have been doing :) and I know that you guys are pouring a LOT of content into the game (relative to the size of your team and development time alloted).
What I'm really saying is that the community will be able to flesh out the few holes that you guys are leaving out of the game (like classic gamemodes, longer gamemodes, a few maps here and there) due to time and budget constraints. These aren't necessary for the success of the game, but certainly do help keep up replayability and the longevity (and in the long run, sell more copies of the game).
But I'm digressing from the original topic... my original post was actually replying to:
<!--quoteo(post=1736340:date=Nov 5 2009, 10:36 AM:name=senor_hybrido)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (senor_hybrido @ Nov 5 2009, 10:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since I don't know what the gameplay is going to be like, and apparently UWE has created the game pretty quickly to be sold at a low price of $20, the conclusion I'm reaching does not appear to be good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
UWE is not rushing the game. First... the $20 price tag is done by tons of Indie developers and first-game game studios (most recent example I can think of is Shattered Horizons by Futuremark Games, Torchlight by Runic Games, Sacraboar by Makivision Games, the list goes on and on and on). A $20 price tag does not mean that a game is rushed or lacking in content, it simply means that that company is probably not known well enough that their game will sell enough copies to be profitable with a $60 price tag. By selling their games at a lower price they are opening the doors to a wider customer base, which is a great thing. I could go on and on about why a larger customer base with a game sold at $20 could be more profitable than a smaller customer base with a game sold at $60, but I'm hoping you get my point that a $20 does not mean rushed game, it's a marketing strategy (partially, I will admit that that is of course not the only reason).
I believe UWE is right on track with Natural Selection 2. It isn't rushed, they aren't doing a half-assed job, they are making a damn, ###### awesome game for us. Trust the developers. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1736811:date=Nov 8 2009, 11:19 PM:name=Mormy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mormy @ Nov 8 2009, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->watch there trailer and watch the end ... on their site thats a deadline false marketing so they did lie<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, ok... let's say that your friend and you are planning to go out to dinner in a week. It's the night of dinner and you get a call from your friend saying that he can no longer make it because his grandmother just died. Did your friend lie to you? No... unforeseen consequences called for a delay in your dinning arrangements. It is essentially the same with video games, too. They said Fall 2009 because they thought at that exact moment in time that they would be able to reach that release date. Things happened (I think a large thing was in influx of preorder money so that they didn't have to rush the game) and they realized that that date could no longer happen.
Secondly, the definition of a lie is: a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth. Notice the word deliberate in there. Did UWE know all along that they would never have a chance to make that Fall '09 date? No and therefore they did not lie to you. Their plans just changed.
Well now... /rantoff.
<b>Edit:</b> <!--quoteo(post=1736817:date=Nov 9 2009, 12:23 AM:name=meh`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meh` @ Nov 9 2009, 12:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736817"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you should look up the word lie in the dictionary and try again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh dammit, you beat me to it. Here I was writing up a long post replying to so many people and you beat me to the damn punch. I hate you... :P.
BadMouthIt ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titlJoin Date: 2004-05-21Member: 28815Members
What I would like to see, is that all the whiners on how they just want to play the Alpha now, and get the game released now, really get what they want. The unfinished, broken, and ugly product and that is what they're getting for their money's worth. While the rest of us wait and get the better and finished product, for our money's worth.
Unfortunately, UWE has too much business sense to do that.
Comments
<!--quoteo(post=1735470:date=Nov 2 2009, 06:11 AM:name=JAmazon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAmazon @ Nov 2 2009, 06:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735470"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fact that NS2 might be developed in its entirety over the course of less than a year is actually a point of concern<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can that possibly be a point of concern, when it's already been developed for more than a year? o_O
Games with short development cycles I usually associate with overdone franchises, that release wave after wave of sequels and expansion packs under some publishers shovel-ware business model. I like to think that NS2 is a labor of love for UWE so this kind of "get it done and out the door $$$" approach won't be the case.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this. If the game is created years faster than other similar games, it can be due to any of the three reasons:
1) Other companies spent months or years on doing stuff other than developing their games.
2) The UWE staff is working incredibly hard (and probably consuming incredibly large quantities of coffee).
3) The game has fewer things to code than other games.
The first is quite likely, the second is probable. The third is possible too, which worries me. At a time when most FPS players are used to the standards set by L4D, COD4 and other such games, it is hard to get more new players if NS2 isn't exactly on par with the competitors. At the very least it will be compared with other similar FPS/RTS hybrids like Empires Mod (HL2) in terms of gameplay. I would, because I'm still playing both NS1 and Empires now. Despite the excellent graphics I'm seeing on the blog, I have no idea how the game is really like. Though many fans seem to want a remake of NS1, I'm one of those who do not, especially after trying other newer games.
Since I don't know what the gameplay is going to be like, and apparently UWE has created the game pretty quickly to be sold at a low price of $20, the conclusion I'm reaching does not appear to be good.
They really have set the ground work for all games to be delayed and for me to not get too worked up about it.
I don't understand where you're coming from. Hasn't it been in development for 3-4 years, with the majority of the work having been done in the past year due to financing for contractors, full-time salaries, etc. ?
If you go by the standard milestone structure of most games, you have 1) pre-alpha/vertical slice 2) alpha, 3) beta, 4) Lot check - at least thats the major ones.
So by that metric, even if you ignore the previous non-full-time work done on the game and just say its been going for 1 year, they are somewhere between 1 and 2. 1 year, a liittle more than 1/4 done, for a total predicted development time of ~3 years. Like I said before, its kind of mystifying how you are drawing the conclusion that the game is being rushed, especially in response to the game being delayed in pre-alpha.
first of all let me give you this link :P
<a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+long+does+a+game+take+to+develop" target="_blank">http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+long+does+a+game+take+to+develop</a>
^^^ thats a joke btw its the third link down
second this is the third link down if you struggle with it :P
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_development" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_development</a>
have fun! and thanks for the post squeal, I have followed the game development and I think this thread has really shown that the majority of people are happy to wait. I am really amazed at the communitys ability to accept this change and take it as a positive. I am glad that more time is being taken to add the features in which I think will really set this game appart from the rest. Keep going and peace out zex, who dude, really needs to chill out :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WHAT?! According to the wiki article, they canceled Duke Nukem Forever in may this year... THOSE MO##@# FU@#!#$!!.. haha.. actually, why would they do that.. they could have just sold the game title to some other company who would have banked on finally releasing the legendary awaited game. Plus, their procrastination was legendary.. why would they throw away the legend?.. WHYYYY?!
Novaworld was horrible in that they released a new game just about every 3 months. They released 2 games under the Delta Force title before they finally dropped a version that was even worth switching to, Delta Force: Black Hawk Down. DF2 outlasted that game in the end.
They simply outdated their games in record time.
A game like NS2 is going to be played for at least 5 years, by the players anyhow. Take your time to release something stable.
The mod community will only be big if the community is big. Most modders want to make things people will actually get to enjoy, after all. So core gameplay must be solid. Good hit-detection, movement, resource model, building, accessibility, and such.
But I'd be happy to play an alpha that is missing 90% of partical effects, doesn't even have even weapon-firing animations, many buildings are just an untextured box, and you're getting stuck on places of the map.
You can't bake a loaf of bread faster by adding more cooks...1 classic-mode NS1 map could easily take 6 months or more to make and balance (and honestly, these are never completely 'finished'. they can always be tweaked) My point is that you can change the amount of content that gets made (500 bakers can make a helluva lot of bread), but you can't really speed up the development cycle too much
or if you don't care for the bread analogy, getting 9 pregnant women doesn't reduce the length of....nvm
Uh...sorry, but you make it sound like we are relying on the community to do half the work on NS2, here. A few additional maps and mods is not the same thing as creating the core game. The developers are handling all the art, programming, animation, sound, music, design, and as many maps as we can get done in the time before release (an exact number of maps hasn't been decided on yet). It's kind of like saying that the community helped create Halflife because they made some additional maps to download and popular mods like CS :)
--Cory
1) Why keep arguing this point, what does it matter and what are you trying to achieve? You've already proven beyond a doubt that you have no idea about game development as you think games can be created in eight months.
2) With the exception of the past year it seems like UWE's focus was to create UWE, not NS2. Getting funding to create a company and developing the tools necessary to create NS2 take time. Combine this with the fact that this team is very small in comparison to the standard game development studio and it's not a mystery as to why an alpha release date was missed. You're confusing and combining the time it took UWE to create themselves with the the time its going to take them to release NS2.
Mother likes both cakes, even though they didn't cost the same amount of money and one took longer to make than the other. The difference is that Peter's cake had far more risk associated with it; he might have overcooked it, or put in too much flour, made it too sweet or even messed up on the decorations.
UWE is already saving huge amounts of money by developing their own engine, relying on dedicated servers (most probably) and not having to pay any platform-holders for the privelege of putting their game in a 360 or PS3 box (or having a GfWL tag on it, I hope). How much money? At a guess about $1.5 million, or more.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Royalty-Bearing License - For retail console & PC products
A non-refundable, non-recoupable license fee is due on execution of the agreement. The cost is US $350,000 for one of the available Unreal Engine 2 platforms, plus US $50,000 for each additional platform. A royalty of 3% is due on all revenue from the game, calculated on the wholesale price of the product minus (for console SKUs) console manufacturer fees. In the case of massive-multiplayer online games, the royalty is also due on the additional forms of revenue including subscriptions and advertisements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Above is the current costs of a 'current-gen' license (Unreal 2), for a next-gen license it would be substantially more. To give two examples, recent releases of Unreal 2-powered games include <i>Brothers in Arms: Double Time</i> (on the Wii!) and indie game <i>Killing Floor</i>. The Spark engine has already shown it can muster more than this, and will have cost less to make than U2 because Max is almost certainly not paying himself what he's worth, the project/engine/company is a long-term investment.
<!--quoteo(post=1736740:date=Nov 8 2009, 06:00 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Nov 8 2009, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the exception of the past year<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1736740:date=Nov 8 2009, 06:00 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Nov 8 2009, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the past year<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wrong they were marketing on the other site as fall 2009 .. they did but sense most people would order it before coming to this site which all the updates are on here not on the games true web sites
If you can't handle an inexact delay (for the best of reasons) you shouldn't be pre-ordering games that aren't even in Alpha testing yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
watch there trailer and watch the end ... on their site thats a deadline false marketing so they did lie
The sales price doesn't necessarily reflect how good the game is. This is a common misconception. As I see it... UWE is making a spectacular sequel to NS and they want to get it in as many hands as they possible can. To accomplish that, it seems they are making the game very affordable.
I bought Guild Wars for $50 back in the day and I never really like the game. I thought they did a lot of cheap tactics. (sorry people who like the game!) ...Yet with NS... a FREE Mod... I got hooked. I just find it funny how it's a popular misconception that spending more will always get you "more". Balderdash!
end rant;
Maybe you should look up the word lie in the dictionary and try again.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I reread my original post and I see now it came off a little strong so let me try to fix this up. Of course NS2 will still be 95% UWE and maybe 5% community. I never meant for it to take away from all of the fantastic work that you guys have been doing :) and I know that you guys are pouring a LOT of content into the game (relative to the size of your team and development time alloted).
What I'm really saying is that the community will be able to flesh out the few holes that you guys are leaving out of the game (like classic gamemodes, longer gamemodes, a few maps here and there) due to time and budget constraints. These aren't necessary for the success of the game, but certainly do help keep up replayability and the longevity (and in the long run, sell more copies of the game).
But I'm digressing from the original topic... my original post was actually replying to:
<!--quoteo(post=1736340:date=Nov 5 2009, 10:36 AM:name=senor_hybrido)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (senor_hybrido @ Nov 5 2009, 10:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since I don't know what the gameplay is going to be like, and apparently UWE has created the game pretty quickly to be sold at a low price of $20, the conclusion I'm reaching does not appear to be good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
UWE is not rushing the game. First... the $20 price tag is done by tons of Indie developers and first-game game studios (most recent example I can think of is Shattered Horizons by Futuremark Games, Torchlight by Runic Games, Sacraboar by Makivision Games, the list goes on and on and on). A $20 price tag does not mean that a game is rushed or lacking in content, it simply means that that company is probably not known well enough that their game will sell enough copies to be profitable with a $60 price tag. By selling their games at a lower price they are opening the doors to a wider customer base, which is a great thing. I could go on and on about why a larger customer base with a game sold at $20 could be more profitable than a smaller customer base with a game sold at $60, but I'm hoping you get my point that a $20 does not mean rushed game, it's a marketing strategy (partially, I will admit that that is of course not the only reason).
I believe UWE is right on track with Natural Selection 2. It isn't rushed, they aren't doing a half-assed job, they are making a damn, ###### awesome game for us. Trust the developers. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1736811:date=Nov 8 2009, 11:19 PM:name=Mormy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mormy @ Nov 8 2009, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->watch there trailer and watch the end ... on their site thats a deadline false marketing so they did lie<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, ok... let's say that your friend and you are planning to go out to dinner in a week. It's the night of dinner and you get a call from your friend saying that he can no longer make it because his grandmother just died. Did your friend lie to you? No... unforeseen consequences called for a delay in your dinning arrangements. It is essentially the same with video games, too. They said Fall 2009 because they thought at that exact moment in time that they would be able to reach that release date. Things happened (I think a large thing was in influx of preorder money so that they didn't have to rush the game) and they realized that that date could no longer happen.
Secondly, the definition of a lie is: a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth. Notice the word deliberate in there. Did UWE know all along that they would never have a chance to make that Fall '09 date? No and therefore they did not lie to you. Their plans just changed.
Well now... /rantoff.
<b>Edit:</b>
<!--quoteo(post=1736817:date=Nov 9 2009, 12:23 AM:name=meh`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meh` @ Nov 9 2009, 12:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736817"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you should look up the word lie in the dictionary and try again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh dammit, you beat me to it. Here I was writing up a long post replying to so many people and you beat me to the damn punch. I hate you... :P.
bumping my threads makes me happy, not enraged n_n
But really, I'm looking forward to this being released, now that I saw an SS from the blog post I can't sit still.
Unfortunately, UWE has too much business sense to do that.