yeah, I know that was more of a surface tension thing (which is also rather high for lava) I was tired when I made that post...
So, are you implying that swimming in lava should be a unique exo-suit ability? An ordinary human wouldn't be able to exert the force necessary to move through something with that level of viscosity for any length of time (naturally I'm using Pahoehoe lava as my material, as the least viscous type on the list. Too bad they don't have any other common materials on the list, for a better comparison to lava. I could probably swim in corn syrup if i tried)
ok, found a few more on wikipedia...the first 2 types of lava are more or less on par with honey, and you could probably swim in that, though it would take quite a bit of effort
but Andesite lava is four times harder to swim through than peanut butter (and 10 times harder than sour cream - 100,000 cP), and Rhyolite lava is orders of magnitude higher
Back when we were on Half-life 1 and Source, we used water because it was in there. Now that we have to implement it, we're not so sure. It's something we want but it's not in yet and I have a feeling it won't make it in for v1.0. It's something we could add in an update no problem though.
<!--quoteo(post=1731022:date=Oct 6 2009, 11:12 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 6 2009, 11:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Back when we were on Half-life 1 and Source, we used water because it was in there. Now that we have to implement it, we're not so sure. It's something we want but it's not in yet and I have a feeling it won't make it in for v1.0. It's something we could add in an update no problem though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nooooooo... It's completely understandable though, thanks for telling ^^;
Theres something strangely hilarious about seeing a dev say that water wont make it into a games initial release, maybe it's because it's such a common thing that's been in games since the Duke 3D days.
Even if it's a basic "gravity is lower, some weapons don't work, vision is impaired/bubbly" field designated by the mapper that would be a big step towards watery... Of course, then there's the graphics work. I could see that taking an awful lot of time.
<!--quoteo(post=1731010:date=Oct 6 2009, 02:44 PM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Oct 6 2009, 02:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731010"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also... isn't the 'lava' in NS/NS2 technically molten metal (like in Alien 3) not molten rock?
JAmazon more sums, quick!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha, I was literally just about to post that.
but the devs already said that there might be lava(metal) and that there probably ISN'T gonna be water/swimming. Which probably implicitly means no swimming in that lava :P
<!--quoteo(post=1730808:date=Oct 5 2009, 06:50 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Oct 5 2009, 06:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also the atmospheric lighting of NS2 would be absolutely ideal for adding pool-type nuclear reactors in levels, complete with that most awesome of all things: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation</a>
Finally modern science has a use for nuclear stuff which glows!
I can imagine this being a setting for a map, maybe even with glass tunnels through the pool with this glow all around you.
That'd be groovy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I'll be damned. Here I always thought that was just some fictional movie effect, ie the "glowing radiation".
(Yes, I was disappointed as a kid the first time I saw a radioactive substance in real life and it wasn't glowing green.)
<!--quoteo(post=1731055:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:03 PM:name=FuNiOnZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FuNiOnZ @ Oct 6 2009, 03:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731055"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Theres something strangely hilarious about seeing a dev say that water wont make it into a games initial release, maybe it's because it's such a common thing that's been in games since the Duke 3D days.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, you want to see Duke 3D style water in NS2? Even HL's water was pretty piss-poor.
Though, I'm sure its just as easy for them to create water that matches the graphic level of their engine as it was for 3D Realms to add water to Duke 3D. Flara is just being lazy!
<!--quoteo(post=1731340:date=Oct 7 2009, 08:58 PM:name=BigD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigD @ Oct 7 2009, 08:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well I'll be damned. Here I always thought that was just some fictional movie effect, ie the "glowing radiation".
(Yes, I was disappointed as a kid the first time I saw a radioactive substance in real life and it wasn't glowing green.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1731340:date=Oct 8 2009, 02:58 AM:name=BigD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigD @ Oct 8 2009, 02:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well I'll be damned. Here I always thought that was just some fictional movie effect, ie the "glowing radiation".
(Yes, I was disappointed as a kid the first time I saw a radioactive substance in real life and it wasn't glowing green.)
Fair enough. That makes sense I suppose. Water is like everything else in the end. If it's not a key element in the game, then it can be done later. I do hope however, that it isn't forgotten and one day implemented. Water adds an interesting about of depth and realism to the equation, but I trust you guys know what you're doing.
<!--quoteo(post=1731343:date=Oct 7 2009, 11:20 PM:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver_Fox @ Oct 7 2009, 11:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731343"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, you want to see Duke 3D style water in NS2? Even HL's water was pretty piss-poor.
Though, I'm sure its just as easy for them to create water that matches the graphic level of their engine as it was for 3D Realms to add water to Duke 3D. Flara is just being lazy!
It's not hard! You're just lazy!
Stop being lazy Flayra!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends on how you make it. Could be a tiled image (if you want old school water), could be a custom shader. Depending on what API they are using it's not a ######ton of code. Are we talking cosmetic water? Volumetric? Particle system based?
I wasn't criticizing them for being lazy, just that it's funny to see something that we see in every fps out there as being a 'we'll add it later' feature. It's trivial and it won't be missed too much. Let's just hope when it is put in it looks at least 1/10th as good as
Little pools of condensation dripping out of pipes, etc, was a major theme in not only NS1 maps, but in the Alien movies, which play a big influence on NS's atmosphere. I feel it is a crime to leave out water.
I expect puddles and drips will still be in the game in some form. I think what they mean by leaving water out is large pools that you would actually need to swim/wade in.
<!--quoteo(post=1731022:date=Oct 6 2009, 11:12 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 6 2009, 11:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Back when we were on Half-life 1 and Source, we used water because it was in there. Now that we have to implement it, we're not so sure. It's something we want but it's not in yet and I have a feeling it won't make it in for v1.0. It's something we could add in an update no problem though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh dear, back to the drawing board with some of my map concepts...
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1731481:date=Oct 8 2009, 07:34 PM:name=Invader_Scoot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Invader_Scoot @ Oct 8 2009, 07:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh dear, back to the drawing board with some of my map concepts...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or maybe you just need to expand your drawing board to include implementing a water mod (remember, NS2 is made to be modded).
<!--quoteo(post=1731491:date=Oct 8 2009, 08:51 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Oct 8 2009, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731491"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or maybe you just need to expand your drawing board to include implementing a water mod (remember, NS2 is made to be modded).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I imagine water would require direct access to the engine.
<!--quoteo(post=1731504:date=Oct 9 2009, 07:38 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Oct 9 2009, 07:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731504"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I imagine water would require direct access to the engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've got lights which can create fog volumes, controlling the gravity constant for objects in a volume is a fairly basic effect, and you'll almost certainly have refracting textures, and you've got jetpacks which means players can be given flight-like abilities.
That's basically what water is in HL2, I would imagine you could hack something together if you needed to.
<!--quoteo(post=1731590:date=Oct 9 2009, 11:49 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Oct 9 2009, 11:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731590"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dunno if you can link a map to a mod though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
So, are you implying that swimming in lava should be a unique exo-suit ability? An ordinary human wouldn't be able to exert the force necessary to move through something with that level of viscosity for any length of time (naturally I'm using Pahoehoe lava as my material, as the least viscous type on the list. Too bad they don't have any other common materials on the list, for a better comparison to lava. I could probably swim in corn syrup if i tried)
JAmazon more sums, quick!
but Andesite lava is four times harder to swim through than peanut butter (and 10 times harder than sour cream - 100,000 cP), and Rhyolite lava is orders of magnitude higher
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity#Viscosity_of_various_materials" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity#Vis...rious_materials</a>
Nooooooo...
It's completely understandable though, thanks for telling ^^;
JAmazon more sums, quick!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha, I was literally just about to post that.
but the devs already said that there might be lava(metal) and that there probably ISN'T gonna be water/swimming. Which probably implicitly means no swimming in that lava :P
Finally modern science has a use for nuclear stuff which glows!
I can imagine this being a setting for a map, maybe even with glass tunnels through the pool with this glow all around you.
That'd be groovy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I'll be damned. Here I always thought that was just some fictional movie effect, ie the "glowing radiation".
(Yes, I was disappointed as a kid the first time I saw a radioactive substance in real life and it wasn't glowing green.)
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/TrigaReactorCore.jpeg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
So, you want to see Duke 3D style water in NS2? Even HL's water was pretty piss-poor.
Though, I'm sure its just as easy for them to create water that matches the graphic level of their engine as it was for 3D Realms to add water to Duke 3D. Flara is just being lazy!
It's not hard! You're just lazy!
Stop being lazy Flayra!
(Yes, I was disappointed as a kid the first time I saw a radioactive substance in real life and it wasn't glowing green.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TechnicolorScience" target="_blank">http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main...hnicolorScience</a>
(Yes, I was disappointed as a kid the first time I saw a radioactive substance in real life and it wasn't glowing green.)
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/TrigaReactorCore.jpeg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as I know it's caused by any high-energy particle travelling through substances with low light speed, it's the basis of neturino telescopes.
Though, I'm sure its just as easy for them to create water that matches the graphic level of their engine as it was for 3D Realms to add water to Duke 3D. Flara is just being lazy!
It's not hard! You're just lazy!
Stop being lazy Flayra!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends on how you make it. Could be a tiled image (if you want old school water), could be a custom shader. Depending on what API they are using it's not a ######ton of code. Are we talking cosmetic water? Volumetric? Particle system based?
I wasn't criticizing them for being lazy, just that it's funny to see something that we see in every fps out there as being a 'we'll add it later' feature. It's trivial and it won't be missed too much. Let's just hope when it is put in it looks at least 1/10th as good as
<img src="http://www.edit.ne.jp/~katsu/image/sea_blue.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Oh dear, back to the drawing board with some of my map concepts...
Or maybe you just need to expand your drawing board to include implementing a water mod (remember, NS2 is made to be modded).
I imagine water would require direct access to the engine.
You've got lights which can create fog volumes, controlling the gravity constant for objects in a volume is a fairly basic effect, and you'll almost certainly have refracting textures, and you've got jetpacks which means players can be given flight-like abilities.
That's basically what water is in HL2, I would imagine you could hack something together if you needed to.
I sincerely hope you can.