Grenade Launcher
douchebagatron
Custom member title Join Date: 2003-12-20 Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Custom member title Join Date: 2003-12-20 Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">bring it back</div><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just posted this in another thread, as well.
As it stands now, the marine's weapon arsenal consists of the melee weapon, pistol, assault rifle, grenade launcher attachment for the assault rifle, shotgun, flamethrower, and minigun.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I worry that this weapon loadout is too close to standard for games. I think the grenade launcher needs to be reinstated instead of the gl attachment. Here's a few reasons why
a) a grenade launcher, as in ns1, is a high damage weapon for taking out structures and vent campers
b) it's not very useful against attacking aliens
c) the combination of these two make it a very useful base buster, while promoting teamwork
d) it stood out as a weapon in the game. you've got machine guns and shotguns in every game, but not many have a straight grenade launcher
e) a gl attachment would promote ramboing, it's giving one person too much power, unless the gl attachment is worth as much as the grenade in ns1, then it's worthless anyways.
f) the gl was and is one of the sexiest concepts for a weapon ever. the first time i played ns and got one, i was impressed with how awesome of a gun it was.
As it stands now, the marine's weapon arsenal consists of the melee weapon, pistol, assault rifle, grenade launcher attachment for the assault rifle, shotgun, flamethrower, and minigun.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I worry that this weapon loadout is too close to standard for games. I think the grenade launcher needs to be reinstated instead of the gl attachment. Here's a few reasons why
a) a grenade launcher, as in ns1, is a high damage weapon for taking out structures and vent campers
b) it's not very useful against attacking aliens
c) the combination of these two make it a very useful base buster, while promoting teamwork
d) it stood out as a weapon in the game. you've got machine guns and shotguns in every game, but not many have a straight grenade launcher
e) a gl attachment would promote ramboing, it's giving one person too much power, unless the gl attachment is worth as much as the grenade in ns1, then it's worthless anyways.
f) the gl was and is one of the sexiest concepts for a weapon ever. the first time i played ns and got one, i was impressed with how awesome of a gun it was.
Comments
You're right. But otherwise we don't know what exactly they planned it for.
My thoughts exactly. I don't think the GL attachment is going to be used the same way the GL is in NS1. It's probably going to be a lighter damage AOE attack rather then a structure destroyer. I'm pretty sure the flame thrower is being designed to handle the jobs of the original GL.
This actually concerns me since it doesn't look like the flamethrower is going to have the same weaknesses as the original gl. If the flamethrower is going to throw a constant stream of fiery death, even if only for limited time periods, its going to be quite easy to nail lifeforms with the ultra leet tactic of "spray and pray". This said if said stream of fiery death can deal enough damage to wreck buildings then you would have to take care to balance it carefully against lifeforms. Even if it only does moderate damage to both, the stream of fiery death could quickly get ridiculous and potentially be an "endgame" weapon, where once these guys start getting handed out its over. I don't know this for sure without playing of course, but if it appears that the flamethrower (and it's fiery stream of death), are absorbing the role of destroyer of buildings in addition to the likelihood of being able to blanket hallways and areas with massive streams of fiery death, then it could be problematic. Just a thought.
However, I do worry that the GL had a very important weakness of not being very effective against Alien lifeforms and the flame thrower does not seem like it would have that same weakness.
There are plenty of ways to balance it and give it drawbacks:<ul><li> Short range</li><li> Damage based on range(like TF2 pyro)</li><li> Low clip size(as you mentioned)</li><li> Reduced damage to players(like old HMG)</li></ul>
As long as it's not an effective kharaa killing tool it will be a support weapon and have the same role as the gl. It's not like you couldn't kill lifeforms with the GL either.
It'd be like making a anti-tank rifle and saying that while it should be lethal to tanks, humans should take half damage from it.
It'd be like making a anti-tank rifle and saying that while it should be lethal to tanks, humans should take half damage from it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd personally take a "gameplay over realism" tack here, but you're entitled to your opinion and I'd be interested in hearing other drawbacks you could imagine.
I liked your drawbacks actually, just not the reduced damage. I believe there's ways to balance it, whether it be limited ammo loadouts, overheating, 1 per team/squad, etc
Edit : On the realism comment, if I really wanted to get into that argument, a flamethrowers range is effin massive ;)
The HMG did less damage against players...?
It does reduced (50%) damage to buildings. I guess that was ambiguous.
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZXUYEdSNhY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZXUYEdSNhY</a>
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZXUYEdSNhY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZXUYEdSNhY</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen
I heard once that the traditional videogame flamethrower was more like a "propane thrower".
Wait I think they said some thing like that was going to happen. Let me check.
Edit: No, I was thinking of the electrodes on the taser. Good idea though.
It's a spam weapon that is sprayed mindlessly and continuously.
Not only that, a flamethrower in an oxygen rich environment like a SPACE SHIP is just a bad idea. It's one thing when you are in a jungle or pacific island, quite another when you are in an urban or enclosed space.
NO FLAMETHROWER!
You hate a lot of things don't you.
<!--quoteo(post=1731269:date=Oct 7 2009, 02:27 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Oct 7 2009, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a spam weapon that is sprayed mindlessly and continuously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope they don't implement it like that. Do you have any ideas for an implementation of flamethrower that would avoid this usage?
<!--quoteo(post=1731269:date=Oct 7 2009, 02:27 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Oct 7 2009, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not only that, a flamethrower in an oxygen rich environment like a SPACE SHIP is just a bad idea. It's one thing when you are in a jungle or pacific island, quite another when you are in an urban or enclosed space.
NO FLAMETHROWER!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Weren't you arguing against over-prioritizing realism in another thread?
That made me lol.
As I stated in my earlier post, I want the flamethrower to be properly balanced for it's role (whatever that is). I wanted to express my concern for the fact that this might be harder to do with a flamethrower then a grenade launcher. That said, I'm gonna have to stay with the wait and see stance on this. I do want the flamethrower in game, and won't particularly miss the grenade launcher if it doesn't come back. Simply put YAY FIRE! BURN THE GORGES! Oh, and gorges should pop when burnt to death. Like popcorn.
Now THAT made me lol
It seems obvious that it fulfills the same tasks a GL (except for clearing vents, but for that you have the attachment), will promote teamwork even more (you might not care if the guy with the GL takes the other route, as he looks like all the others, but you will watch where this machine is going) and ties the commander more into gameplay.
For sure the GL was neat to use, but a constant nade spam rendering some tight corridor unpassable for a skulk, I won't miss that.
I'm very interested in the territory control aspects that have been mentioned for NS2, including the flame thrower. In the new interview(*!), I was pleased to hear that all doors will be weldable (7-10) in the level. This means that if all doors were welded, there would still be at least one bottlenecked path across the map. The interview also states that vents are not (all?) weldable.
BLOCK QUOTE:
<One of the most unique “weapons†in NS1 was the welder and its ability to repair armor, repair structures and seal up select vents. Are there any plans for new functionality for the welder? Have you thought about making all vents and doors weldable?
We’re not sure about vents but yes, all doors are now weldable. We saw some confusion in NS1 when players couldn’t tell which elements could be welded or not so we just opted to have them all be weldable. This also means that we have less doors on the map (about 7-10). We’re currently planning on having the Commander do all the welding through his “builder bots†instead of players doing it from the ground, but that’s not definite. Welding encounters were highly memorable in NS1!
One trick with doors is we have to be sure that even if all doors are welded, players aren’t trapped anywhere and can still access all the resource points and hive/command-station rooms. So doors are there to focus player movement through chokepoints, to slow players down when attacking or reinforcing an area, etc. Finally, the marine team won’t want to spend too much time welding or getting too comfy behind them, lest an alien rhino-gorilla bash through…>
So I can certainly see from this that the flame thrower will be an invaluable vent blocking mechanism for the TSA. From the videos of real FTs I think a 'paint-able AoE DoT' would be one very effective implementation. This allows the player to deposit a sticky burning flame that burn continually for a duration. This would allow the TSA to sever infestation connections by burning away at the thinest junction. This could operate similarly to the nanogrid of the TSA. As long as infestation is connected to a hive (or RT?), it will continue to offer kharaa benefits. Once, severed, it wilts away and loses its abilities.
As for the player combat aspects of the FT, this could fit in with the same DoT-style damage. This could be modified in many ways to add depth of gameplay and retaining some logical consistency. One possibility would be extra damage from increasing heat over time. This all follows the 'stream of liquid fire' FT concept that would not have much volumetric effect in the mostly wider areas of NS2 maps. The volumetric aspects would be most prevalent in cramped vents, while the fire carpet could control bottlenecked hallways.
I'm way to excited about this game. I just read a 3D studio MAX rigging tutorial =D
As for the player combat aspects of the FT, this could fit in with the same DoT-style damage. This could be modified in many ways to add depth of gameplay and retaining some logical consistency. One possibility would be extra damage from increasing heat over time. This all follows the 'stream of liquid fire' FT concept that would not have much volumetric effect in the mostly wider areas of NS2 maps. The volumetric aspects would be most prevalent in cramped vents, while the fire carpet could control bottlenecked hallways.
I'm way to excited about this game. I just read a 3D studio MAX rigging tutorial =D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point. Heh I started to learn 3d modeling just to make my own NS props =D"
SO DO WANT. Someone PLEASE work on a popcorn ragdoll replacement for the aliens (different sizes and shapes according to form)! Assuming that model/skin replacements are vanilla compatible (like most FPSes).