Alt fire modes for Sentry Turret?
Xero
Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8565Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8565Members, Constellation
After reading the Twitter post about new sentry turrets, I just started wondering about their role in NS2. The dev team seems to be happy with a beefier, more badass version. Does this mean the guns themselves will be more badass? NS1 turrets personally don't scare me the same way the ones in the Aliens movie do, for example. Those guns ate through xenomorphs like a fat kid in a pie eating contest.
So I'm wondering, would it be possible to have alternate modes for the turrets which the commander or soldiers could switch?
For example:
BURST MODE
Similiar to NS1, the gun fires a quick burst. Accuracy is really high, meaning it should be able to hit skulks and lerks quite easily. However, the damage to larger, slower targets wouldn't be as detrimental of course.
RAPID MODE
The gun would open up full rapid fire, like a minigun. Accuracy is low, so skulks and lerks should be able to dodge. Slower targets would of course take multiple hits, which would deal high damage if sustained too long.
These are of course just suggestions. However, I really like the idea of ALT modes for marine weapons and structures. This really opens up new strategies and adds depth while keeping the overall number of weapons and structures reasonable.
Thoughts?
So I'm wondering, would it be possible to have alternate modes for the turrets which the commander or soldiers could switch?
For example:
BURST MODE
Similiar to NS1, the gun fires a quick burst. Accuracy is really high, meaning it should be able to hit skulks and lerks quite easily. However, the damage to larger, slower targets wouldn't be as detrimental of course.
RAPID MODE
The gun would open up full rapid fire, like a minigun. Accuracy is low, so skulks and lerks should be able to dodge. Slower targets would of course take multiple hits, which would deal high damage if sustained too long.
These are of course just suggestions. However, I really like the idea of ALT modes for marine weapons and structures. This really opens up new strategies and adds depth while keeping the overall number of weapons and structures reasonable.
Thoughts?
Comments
Also, maybe an upgrade (thinking purely in NS terms) which doubles the damage output of a turret (whether by rate of fire or amount of fire or bullet type), but making all subsequent turrets cost 15 res instead of 10.
Just something to make turrets relevant late-game w/o having a 2 hour game on eclipse with Clay turreting up every res room one by one
this also means that the turrets are vulnerable from the back, even though they are powerful from the direction they are facing.
bad placement will mean useless turrets, clever placement will mean excellent benefits, but of course there will always be a way to get around the back of them (as there is always more than one path in the maps)
this also means that turrets need to be guarded to some extent - or that multiple turrets will need to be placed next to each other so they can protect each other
also i'm still assuming that onos will be invincible vs turrets when crouched, so he will be able to knock them over, and marines will need to set them up again, if they still function
it was lame :)
As this is of strategic concern, this should really be the commanders task.
<!--quoteo(post=1720699:date=Aug 5 2009, 07:53 AM:name=GaussWaffle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GaussWaffle @ Aug 5 2009, 07:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1720699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just let the bullets ramp up in upgrades with the marines...I really wish that had been the case in NS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or there could be an individual upgrade for every turret/turret factory. Anyone remembers Warcraft2? You could upgrade your scout tower, to a guard tower (arrows) <u>or</u> a cannon tower (although scout towers might not be of much use in NS2)
<img src="http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/0/07/HumanTower1.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/f/f4/HumanTower2.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/6/60/HumanTower3.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
There might have been a similar system in Warcraft3 (as this is where tower defence comes from), but i never really played it.
Anyway, I think schkorpio's idea about high powered direction fire is a great one... however a couple of reservations, first are we actually going to be able to choose the rotation of structures in NS2... without that it's kinda impossible! Secondly, I don't think they should be 'knocked over' HL2 style (i.e. able to actually move the turret) and set up again by marines, that could just result in marines running into alien territory holding a turret in front of them and place it a corner and sit by it laughing manically as skulks try to get to him... wait that sounds awesome... make it be able to fire whilst the marines holding it too.
PS: sentrys shudnt be able to be knocked over...as they are bolted to the ground.
Anyway, I think schkorpio's idea about high powered direction fire is a great one... however a couple of reservations, first are we actually going to be able to choose the rotation of structures in NS2... without that it's kinda impossible! Secondly, I don't think they should be 'knocked over' HL2 style (i.e. able to actually move the turret) and set up again by marines, that could just result in marines running into alien territory holding a turret in front of them and place it a corner and sit by it laughing manically as skulks try to get to him... wait that sounds awesome... make it be able to fire whilst the marines holding it too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that wont work...the sentry needs to be within the radius of the turrent factory..duhhh!
could we pick that up and carry that too?
A couple of ideas:
- Commander can select and give turrets firing orders. I like the idea of additional firing modes(burst, full auto, etc). Additionally, It would be nice if the comm could select and order the turrets to attack a specific target if there are multiple targets/aliens.
- Controllable turrets. The comm/secondary comm could select a turret and take a first person remote control of it and actually aim and fire it at aliens. (think remote turrets from Tribes)
The mod Eternal-Silence for HL2 has that exact same function.
You can deploy a Turret, hide yourself somewhere and control the turret remotely. It's very funny. =)
Oh! And you can knock the turret too. While knocked down, it won't work. You can also pick it up and put in another place.
Well, I think that NS2 could have the same feature as it works very well and gives a lot of tactic to the game.
--beefier, more powerful then NS
--cone of fire, so it matters where and how they are placed. They can be rotated by the commander when placing
--probably won't be able to be knocked down, as that causes all sorts of headaches
--possibly can run out of ammo so the commander needs to keep an eye on ammo count and reload them
--no turret factories, currently
--will be linked to the power grid
--I haven't talked to Charlie about upgrades for the turrets, so I don't know if any are planned or not
--no talk at the moment about alt fire, though it's an interesting idea
Please keep in mind that the above is all subsequent to change if deemed broken, annoying, useless, etc. based on adequate playtesting and what Charlie feels is going to work the best. So, please refrain from too many "OMG, they are ruining NS, it's gonna suck!" comments.
Thanks.
--Cory
OMG!! They're improving NS, that sounds awesome!
Hows that? ;-)
Also, I think a flamethrower upgrade would be good; like the LVL 3 Turret in TF2(Team Fortress 2).
Current: <a href="http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3616/409736-800px_sentry_gun_level_3_b_super.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3616/...l_3_b_super.jpg</a>
OLD Concept: <a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/TF2%20lvl%203%20turret/Zweit/team-fortress-2_turrets.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.photobucket.com/image/TF2%20l...s-2_turrets.jpg</a>
In TF2 it shoots rockets, but that would not make sense in this game; but a flamethrower would.
--cone of fire, so it matters where and how they are placed. They can be rotated by the commander when placing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've wanted this for so long! :*) If you decide to allow turret realignment you must include a long cooldown (like 10 or 30 seconds). Maybe aliens can fake an strong attack from one side and scare a com into realigning ALL the turrets in the room to face one door and then get like 10-30 second to rush in from another door)
<!--quoteo(post=1720782:date=Aug 5 2009, 12:12 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 5 2009, 12:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1720782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->--possibly can run out of ammo so the commander needs to keep an eye on ammo count and reload them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this a lot. Gives more strategy and goes well with the following idea
<!--quoteo(post=1720782:date=Aug 5 2009, 12:12 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 5 2009, 12:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1720782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->--no talk at the moment about alt fire, though it's an interesting idea<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the OP's idea for a accurate burst fire mode and a less accurate full auto mode. Would like to add.
-Burst fire: Accurate short burst with short cooldown
-full auto: Inaccurate really long bursts with a slighty longer cooldown (because it can overheat or needs to reload the clip) This chews through ammo faster and lets larger aliens taunt the turrets to empty the clips/overheat the gun so that smaller aliens can rush in during reload/cooldown to get to the blind spots)
The com can choose between these mode which will trigger an appropriately long animation where the turret cannot fire and slightly changes appearance. To make things simple have a green light on the turret when in burst mode change to red during changes/reloads and the go blue one in full auto mode.
Really good info Cory. Add some art and you got a blog worthy post here.
[EDIT: some grammar and "This chews through ammo faster"]
(Not intented as any kind of direct critisism, these just crossed my mind while reading. It's always nice to have some discussion at least)
<!--quoteo(post=1720782:date=Aug 5 2009, 05:12 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 5 2009, 05:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1720782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The current plan for the turrets is:
--beefier, more powerful then NS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some use of them wouldn't hurt as long as they aren't THE defence.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->--cone of fire, so it matters where and how they are placed. They can be rotated by the commander when placing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm a little worried on how the flanking is going to work with the new map & power grid rules, but once again it's fine as long as they aren't the main defence method.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->--probably won't be able to be knocked down, as that causes all sorts of headaches<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fine, although it kinda encourages using them in combination with marines. There are probably smarter ways for the encouragement if necessary.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->--possibly can run out of ammo so the commander needs to keep an eye on ammo count and reload them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't this the kind of 'must do' macro routine that was supposed to be reduced in NS2? On the other it doesn't relate to marines, so it's not going to ruin field marine's day if comm ignores it, but then again I can't see the resupplying as that dynamic feature by itself either.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->--no turret factories, currently
--will be linked to the power grid<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds fine, it's difficult to judge even for a bit until we know more about the weapons and abilities that might get involved in turret fights.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->--I haven't talked to Charlie about upgrades for the turrets, so I don't know if any are planned or not<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Smart use of a few specialized turrets might be interesting. Commander has to make decisions whether he wants that extra bit of safety or slightly faster tech process for example. Many RTSes have these small decisions that nicely variate the timings and such a bit.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->--no talk at the moment about alt fire, though it's an interesting idea<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there are going to be alt fires, I'd like to see some comm micro intense abilites. The basic turret is already useful, but a good micro commander could squeese an extra bit of use from his turret. This would also encourage to use a strategic turret here and there instead of just blindly massing them for easy defence.
Depending on balance the Full Auto mode Turret could be an upgrade to be used individually on each turret at cost and with no reversal possibilities.
I think it makes sense to make turrets more powerful if using them (ammo) has an expense involved. Large aliens would have yet another way to balance out their own cost by absorbing turret fire.
I think both added Macro and Micro on turrets will work well with the idea of multiple commanders. Especially the micro.
Combining all lot of ideas together (commander turret micro, extra turrets fire mode, cost for using turrets). What could work would be a Turret Full Auto mode which would have to be activated (like a spell). Making the turret go real full auto without any cooldown for a good few seconds, with a short inactive cooldown, followed, by a very long cooldown of the "spell" where the turret just keeps on working as before). Think of the Overdrive spell on the Phoenix in Starcraft 2 (hopefully I got the names right). Depending on balance using this "spell" should cost some res so as to add some decision making on the part of the commander.
Hopefully these changes will give it a more tactical role.
Have you thought about limiting the number of available turrets?
With 2-4 strong turrets per map you could protect maybe 1 or 2 hallways against lower lifeforms, for a limited time until they run out of ammo or power.
Laming up whole hive rooms wouldn't be possible though.
Seriously though, sounds cool.
I'd probably like to have some kind of very situational 'spells' as the secondary fire. A little similar as obs scan for example.
I think this, or a permanent upgrade that can be installed (or several).
yes, would add some "skill" factor to the comm
*Well you can still place 4 turrets somewhere set 2 to alt fire and forget about it. Doesn't have to be tedious. And you still have the option to change it later IF you want.
*There will be multiple commanders. With more commander available, it becomes more important that the commanders have as many options to actively influence the battle so that having that 2nd commander (as so on) really brings enough added advantage that balances out having less Marines in the field. A bit akin to TF2 where the more engineers you have the more turrets your team can have, but you basically sacrifice a player moving around the map.
Still alt fire modes, multiple turret type, or active turret abilities all sound cool... Although not Equally cool
I'm thinking "no" to this idea.
Make it a rotation time to turn the turrets yes, but don't make them have a cooldown on rotation.
Say it takes 5-10 seconds for a turret to turn 90degrees, just multiply that out of course!
And what it comes to alternative firing modes, IMO make them so that marines can change them from individual turrets one at a time or all in the same RT (power grid).
Just pick them up and carry them in both hands, so you can't shoot while carrying them, but you can drop them and set them up when you get to an area you need to keep a hold of.
That is, if the sentry has a fixed "cone of fire" and it's beefier than running and gunning with a HMG (no point in dedicating two marines for that job if it's no use, well, maybe some extra firepower for that cool entry). :D