Will NS2 have a Bot ?
iki77
Join Date: 2009-09-03 Member: 68690Members
Join Date: 2009-09-03 Member: 68690Members
I hope NS2 will have bot, not like in NS1 the bot in NS1 is a mod & it dont have Frontiersmen Bot. When i play many multiplayer fps, there should be a bot in the game.
And i think BOT is very common in multiplayer FPS to have BOT, dont you think? Is there a possibility NS2 will have BOT?
And i think BOT is very common in multiplayer FPS to have BOT, dont you think? Is there a possibility NS2 will have BOT?
Comments
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Welder%20Bot" target="_blank">Welder Bot</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Builder%20Bot" target="_blank">Builder Bot</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/MASC" target="_blank">MASC</a>
Other than that, no bots please! Have a 3rd party server plugin for that.
you select what kind of gear or what kind of alien you want to be
say you pick skulk:
press the record key - run down a hallway doing a leap - press record to stop
then you spawn as a marine with your prefered loadout - say you pick shotgun
you down the same hall way, and a bot now plays the skulk - replaying the leap you recorded over, and over again
and you get to practice shooting a leaping skulk with a shotgun, until you are pro!
edit : so basically you could program the bot to copy anything you can do, and repeat it non stop, and practice killing it over and over :)
itwould be great for training up on stuff you aren't good at
you down the same hall way, and a bot now plays the skulk - replaying the leap you recorded over, and over againand you get to practice shooting a leaping skulk with a shotgun, until you are pro!edit : so basically you could program the bot to copy anything you can do, and repeat it non stop, and practice killing it over and over :)itwould be great for training up on stuff you aren't good at<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What if the person is a fail leaper?
I think it would take up very much time, especially time that that a small team like Unknown Worlds doesn't have.
Bots in a normal Multiplayer FPS are common, yes. But Natural Selection is not a normal FPS, there are many more aspects that make it different.
I'm not a programmer but I cannot imagine that it's easy to program a fade, with blinking and proper routes etc.
Anecdotal evidence, correlation not causation, get off my lawn and all that... but the rise of bot servers occurred the same time as the decline of NS. And bot servers were the reason I stopped playing for a couple of years. Joining near "full" server and finding it to actually be only populated by bots 90% of the time is frustrating. And playing against bots is frankly not fun past the first 5 minutes. They're dumb, have inhuman reflexes, and simply don't act like human players at all.
Some people blame co, and I agree co is partially responsible for the decline of classic, but I think bot servers were the main reason people stopped playing NS.
P.S. Earlier people said they don't want bots because they don't like them. I find that "reason" to be no reason at all. Why don't you like them? Besides, just because you don't like them doesn't mean that other people have the same feeling.
<!--quoteo(post=1726139:date=Sep 4 2009, 11:50 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Sep 4 2009, 11:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1726139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->playing against bots is frankly not fun past the first 5 minutes. They're dumb, have inhuman reflexes, and simply don't act like human players at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To expand upon that, playing against bots is not something that will hold your interest in a multiplayer game. Someone with a higher tolerance might play with them for a week or a month, but you're not going to have the multi-month, multi-year experience NS-with-people provides.
With that said, when I first started playing NS1, it was just about after Lerk spikes were replaced with bite. I suffered through people yelling at me time after time for various reasons simply due to me not knowing how to play, or subtle tricks that everyone else seemed to know and took it upon themselves to burn me at the stake because I didn't know as much about the game as they did. Others I know, have suffered the same fate. If that doesn't get you down however, you even become "decent" and that likely leads to being a great player. Luckily I found a community that didn't pull that crap on everyone which allowed everyone to play on their servers the chance to better themselves as players.
I don't think communities like that are very common these days. Anyways, to get to the point, giving players the ability to practice certain skills like Commanding (which is a big issue... if you aren't given the chance to become better at Commanding early on, then every server you join immeidately ejects you. This is one of the plagues from NS1 that I hope does not continue on and infect NS2) offline with bots. The bots should perhaps have varying skill levels (i.e. each member of the team will have different skill) which replicates the online environment, where not everyone can take out a group of skulks single handedly. Players can work on their Commanding, or getting that one strategy down pat, without the risk of getting yelled at by every other player on your team and thus "punished." This would be tied into a single player training type set of missions, all of which can be repeatable and the last of which is a sandbox type mode, where the objective is the same as the objective in the online version.
Aside from offline play though, I do think having bots on servers does contribute a problem. I for one hate joining a server thinking that there are 5+ players on it, only to discover that they're all bots. This was the situation the last time I played NS1, most of the servers were just filled with bots. Bots do have their uses though on an online server. If you are trying to fill up a server, adding a couple of bots to play with you while you wait is a lot more exciting than simply idling and it typically works a whole lot better.
I wanted bots to become "official" components of NS2 simply because I wanted it done as close to "right" as possible. NS1 had a variety of bot plugins released for it but all of them had issues whether it be that it only works for one team or the damage done by the Aliens had to be increased to balance things out. If they aren't official components however, bot plugins will surely pop-up soon after release, especially since Lua is so sexy.
All third-party bots were absolutely horrible and even if we'd put the Unreal Tournament bots into NS they'd still lack the tactical aspect.
Programming bots for arcade shooters is easy, but NS needs a complex AI for ambushing, support roles, teamwork and so on.
I don't think it'd be worth the effort.
Why?
Because this will be for everyone a completely new game for everyone, and I fully agree that bots does have its uses (singleplayer campaigns, practice and hopefully not as server-fillers) but it would only be a waste of effort if they tried to create AI before its release.
Otherwise I'm sure some modders are up for the challenge, might not be official but who plays against the computer and expect them to be smart anyway?
I'm personally a bit curious how much NS2 will be updated with new features, the things that are on the schedule so far is female marine and character customization post-release; but what's beyond that?
All third-party bots were absolutely horrible and even if we'd put the Unreal Tournament bots into NS they'd still lack the tactical aspect.
Programming bots for arcade shooters is easy, but NS needs a complex AI for ambushing, support roles, teamwork and so on.
I don't think it'd be worth the effort.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AI has not reached the point of closely resembling human playing ability.
I say let the community try to build some bots. The devs have better things to do.
In addition, it would be nice if vents and other objects of interest were labeled in regions in the editor. For example, the entirety of a vent would have the label of "vent" to indicate that it indeed a vent.
What those two things will do is allow bots to use existing, real (and up to date) player data to mimic. If a lot of players died in a certain location, the bot would be in an alert move and move generally more carefully, scanning the terrain. Bots knowing what different areas are and what they mean (vent means that a marine bot should look there, a vent is a passage for a skulk) would also help that.
The only issue I have with designing bots for NS2 is the aliens. Making a reasonable marine bot would be much easier than a alien one, which has 5 different playing styles.